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08-04-2024, 11:26 PM( This post was last modified: 08-04-2024, 11:35 PM by KM600 )
It would be very surprising if Tumbela killed the cub no matter if it’s Mhangenis or Kambulas, especially as he’s been around the Mhangenis for a month and doesn’t seem to show an aggressive side to the cubs, the rare time he’s close enough to them anyways. Then again, they were supposedly running from him so maybe his persistence with leaving them unharmed finally ran out.
I was thinking tho, is it 100% confirmed the lion chasing the pride was Tumbela, as we know Khanya and NK are also in the area and were last spotted extremely close to both Tumbela and the pride. S.Avoca is even in the mix too. Not saying they had anything to do with the cubs deaths, it’s just a theory, but maybe they had chased the pride into Londolozi and Tumbela followed them there.
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It does not look good for the Mangheni. Just like with Othawa Male before, they lost their pride male and are now besieged by all sorts of hostile figures. So they are chased around and forced out of their comfort zones, which brings them in contact with other groups. The ailing cub nr 10 was just the easiest target.
The most likely culprit are still the Kambulas. Though ultimately the PCmales are to blame.
Its them neglecting their duties that started the problems.
Large prides in SS will clash eventually....Resources cannot be shared and they see each other as competition to be exterminated. Limited resources are coveted and sharing isn't on the agenda. I'm honestly surprised it didn't happen sooner. The clash between the Styx and Kambulas really hurt the Styx more, since they lost a couple of members (sub males and maybe the old Rollercoaster Lioness), and I would expect the Manghenis to be on the receiving end since they are smaller than the very large Kambula Pride. If the Mangheni 'only' lost the youngest member, then they didn't lose as much as the Styx yet. Let's keep our fingers crossed....
(08-04-2024, 08:42 PM)criollo2mil Wrote: I don’t know how to post pictures with a Warning.
Repost froM Noor Abdu
WARNING⚠⚠⚠
SENSITIVE CONTENT ???
August 4, 2024
Altercation last night/early morning between Mhangeni Pride & Kambula Pride leaves 1 cub dead & 2 older cubs missing ??
I just received some very sad news from a ranger at Londolozi. Seems there was an altercation between Kambulas & Mhangenis. It is believed that the dead cub is a Kambula cub (possibly 1 of K8's 3 cubs who were born July 2023 as the size of the cub looks about a year old) however, we mustn't forget Mhangeni cub #10 who was born August 2023. I have sent pics to someone who will hopefully be able to ID the cub ??
Information I received from the ranger who gave me permission to share.
"I have some sad news. The Kambulas and Mhangenis had a fight last night/this morning and what looks like one of the younger Kambula female cubs was killed. Two older cubs still missing from Kambula and not sure about anything from the Mhangeni Pride.
I know Mhangeni were running east onto Londoz last night trying to get away from Thumbela.
This morning the Kambulas were found split in two groups and tracks show that lionesses had been running in the area. The cub badly injured not unlikely to survive.
The Mhangenis were not found so unsure of whether it was them or the Tumbela Male who killed the cub. But this afternoon I just found the last remains of a wildebeest carcass not too far from where the cub was found. Apparently the Mhangenis were running from him last night. So I presume the sound at the carcass drew the lions in and ended up in an altercation either with the Tumbela male or the Mhangenis.
Definitely not Ntsevu, it’s too far west for Ntsevu. The furthest we have seen the Ntsevu is in line with our camps and this was about 5-6km southwest of our camps.
If it isn’t Kambula then it will be Mhangeni. I am almost 100% sure this is a Kambula cub. It looked to be about a year old, and it’s not mange that is dirt from either feeding or the altercation. I couldn’t see any testes so I assumed female but didn’t look too hard."
He will be asking around for me to try and find the Mhangeni Pride as well as Tumbela. At that time we will have a clearer understanding which cub it is, Kambula or Mhangeni ????
This is so heart breaking. You can tell the cub is not fully dead, in the pics, but, as the post says, it does not look good at all.
You can see where its (her) back was broken. Really tragic, but as others have said this is part of lion dynamics.
The Mhanghenis losing a cub would make more sense, as they are the smaller pride, without pride males and as such much more vulnerable, and in the other pride's territory.
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(08-04-2024, 11:26 PM)KM600 Wrote: It would be very surprising if Tumbela killed the cub no matter if it’s Mhangenis or Kambulas, especially as he’s been around the Mhangenis for a month and doesn’t seem to show an aggressive side to the cubs, the rare time he’s close enough to them anyways. Then again, they were supposedly running from him so maybe his persistence with leaving them unharmed finally ran out.
I was thinking tho, is it 100% confirmed the lion chasing the pride was Tumbela, as we know Khanya and NK are also in the area and were last spotted extremely close to both Tumbela and the pride. S.Avoca is even in the mix too. Not saying they had anything to do with the cubs deaths, it’s just a theory, but maybe they had chased the pride into Londolozi and Tumbela followed them there.
I am of the same thinking, I have not seen Skorro Jr show any aggression towards any cubs to this point. I get, I know he is a lion, I am also not naive and understand it is natural behavior, but not all male lions are aggressive towards cubs, and I for one believe he is one such male. He has been around cubs from a few prides, even dining with them, and I have not seen him show aggression towards them. Would I find it impossible, no, but, would I be surprised, actually, yes, I would. I cannot speak to Khanya, have not seen him around a strange pride's cubs, and we know that NYM has killed cubs before.
Also, the "chasing" part (I understand that is their words, not yours), was he actually chasing them, as in were they running away from him, was he running after them, or was he merely following them as he has been doing for over a week now?
08-05-2024, 02:32 AM( This post was last modified: 08-05-2024, 02:33 AM by T_Ferguson )
(08-05-2024, 01:49 AM)BA0701 Wrote:
(08-04-2024, 11:26 PM)KM600 Wrote: It would be very surprising if Tumbela killed the cub no matter if it’s Mhangenis or Kambulas, especially as he’s been around the Mhangenis for a month and doesn’t seem to show an aggressive side to the cubs, the rare time he’s close enough to them anyways. Then again, they were supposedly running from him so maybe his persistence with leaving them unharmed finally ran out.
I was thinking tho, is it 100% confirmed the lion chasing the pride was Tumbela, as we know Khanya and NK are also in the area and were last spotted extremely close to both Tumbela and the pride. S.Avoca is even in the mix too. Not saying they had anything to do with the cubs deaths, it’s just a theory, but maybe they had chased the pride into Londolozi and Tumbela followed them there.
I am of the same thinking, I have not seen Skorro Jr show any aggression towards any cubs to this point. I get, I know he is a lion, I am also not naive and understand it is natural behavior, but not all male lions are aggressive towards cubs, and I for one believe he is one such male. He has been around cubs from a few prides, even dining with them, and I have not seen him show aggression towards them. Would I find it impossible, no, but, would I be surprised, actually, yes, I would. I cannot speak to Khanya, have not seen him around a strange pride's cubs, and we know that NYM has killed cubs before.
Also, the "chasing" part (I understand that is their words, not yours), was he actually chasing them, as in were they running away from him, was he running after them, or was he merely following them as he has been doing for over a week now?
I don't think Skorro Jr was the culprit that got the cub. I think the cubs are the victims of the 2 prides coming together. The report I read (right, wrong, whatever) was stating that the Mangheni were moving East away from Skorro. Whether he was chasing them, or they just got tired of him being around. Who knows. Skorro hung around for a while, maybe he started trying to get frisky. I guess time will tell.
Also, maybe it wasn't Skorro, but Talamati and NKhuma male that did the chasing, or created the chase. They are also in this region if memory serves. Ultimately, I still blame the greed of the PCM's which may possibly spell their end. How did PCM get his eye hurt again? I think we are missing some big pictures here.
08-05-2024, 04:15 AM( This post was last modified: 08-05-2024, 04:18 AM by BA0701 )
(08-05-2024, 02:32 AM)T_Ferguson Wrote:
(08-05-2024, 01:49 AM)BA0701 Wrote:
(08-04-2024, 11:26 PM)KM600 Wrote: It would be very surprising if Tumbela killed the cub no matter if it’s Mhangenis or Kambulas, especially as he’s been around the Mhangenis for a month and doesn’t seem to show an aggressive side to the cubs, the rare time he’s close enough to them anyways. Then again, they were supposedly running from him so maybe his persistence with leaving them unharmed finally ran out.
I was thinking tho, is it 100% confirmed the lion chasing the pride was Tumbela, as we know Khanya and NK are also in the area and were last spotted extremely close to both Tumbela and the pride. S.Avoca is even in the mix too. Not saying they had anything to do with the cubs deaths, it’s just a theory, but maybe they had chased the pride into Londolozi and Tumbela followed them there.
I am of the same thinking, I have not seen Skorro Jr show any aggression towards any cubs to this point. I get, I know he is a lion, I am also not naive and understand it is natural behavior, but not all male lions are aggressive towards cubs, and I for one believe he is one such male. He has been around cubs from a few prides, even dining with them, and I have not seen him show aggression towards them. Would I find it impossible, no, but, would I be surprised, actually, yes, I would. I cannot speak to Khanya, have not seen him around a strange pride's cubs, and we know that NYM has killed cubs before.
Also, the "chasing" part (I understand that is their words, not yours), was he actually chasing them, as in were they running away from him, was he running after them, or was he merely following them as he has been doing for over a week now?
I don't think Skorro Jr was the culprit that got the cub. I think the cubs are the victims of the 2 prides coming together. The report I read (right, wrong, whatever) was stating that the Mangheni were moving East away from Skorro. Whether he was chasing them, or they just got tired of him being around. Who knows. Skorro hung around for a while, maybe he started trying to get frisky. I guess time will tell.
Also, maybe it wasn't Skorro, but Talamati and NKhuma male that did the chasing, or created the chase. They are also in this region if memory serves. Ultimately, I still blame the greed of the PCM's which may possibly spell their end. How did PCM get his eye hurt again? I think we are missing some big pictures here.
As for the new eye injury, I have absolutely no idea how he got it. I know his brother gave him the last injury he had, on the same eye, in a scrap over mating rights with the Nkuhumas. This new one is anyone's guess. I agree, the PCMs spreading themselves out over such distances could be a real problem. One thing we have seen, for sure, is it has had the two males being in different areas at the same time, where before, they were practically inseparable, which in my opinion was one of their biggest strengths as a duo. Being separated like this can only bring trouble, for either, or both, of them.
(08-05-2024, 01:27 PM)Duco Ndona Wrote: Its more likely they tried to ditch both.
They certainly don’t like Tumbela being around, despite them being quite calm in his presence in recent sightings, but ye I don’t think he’d have made them run.
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