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The Birmingham Males
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 (01-04-2023, 10:57 PM)Duco Ndona Wrote: Playing favourites aside. One only has to look at the numbers to see that their arrival has been a disaster to the lion population in western sector. One pride is nearly completely decimated and the other stuck in limbo unable to raise cubs. Considering this can still go on for years if one coalition does not remove the other, we are looking at the potential end of every pride in western sector. Which would be a great loss to the genetic diversity in the region. Killing Othawas in western sector means absolutely nothing on bigger scale, even on a scale of Sabi Sands, which is quite overpopulated atm, so its normal that weaker prides will suffer more and get wiped out. If 1 pride is gone, another pride will take their spot, it wont stay empty or without lions. It happened before, Majingilanes decimated and ousted Ximhungwes, and barely raised any offspring in Othawa pride, and what happened? Fairly new pride, Mhangenis moved further west, with some territory in western sector, filling the void. There is also not much room for 2 territorial prides in western sector anyways (alongside Mhangenis part) so we might be sorry for Othawas, but Ximhungwe/Gingerella are not, they now becomed territorial pride there, they are prob very thankfull to Nhenha/NK for help. We love Othawas, and where routing for them, but their downfall was raise of Ximhungwe/Gingerella. Some fall, another rise because of it. 
@Tr1x24 you said I was claiming they did something wrong or unnatural, when I clearly didn't. I said it was unfortunately that it happened, just like you think it's unfortunate Nhenha might be injured or dead.
In fact I said that in the context it was unfortunate for the Othawas AND Nhenha. Had he realized the area wasn't a good one for him, things would've been different for him and maybe for Othawas, but again, he was acting on his natural instincts and I never claimed otherwise. There was a ranger who was asked once ( I think on WildEarth ) if Bboys' fights for mating rights were fiercer than average and he replied they were not. And he wasn't like "all coalitions fight the same way" because he follows by saying two Mapogos had much more serious fights over that. Regardless, yes they do have fighting experience, but they seem to be very cautious and not above average when dealing with enemies. They being young nomads isn't an excuse for fleeing the Majingilanes, it was in mid 2015, iirc they had ousted Matimbas already and were 5yo already, same age PCM are rn, and were 5 against only 3. Plus in 2014 two of them attacked and beat up a bigger Selati male, 2v1 is too much even if the rivals are only 4yo. If they were willing to 2v1 a Selati in 2014 they sure would be in perfect condition to take on Majingis 5v3 in 2015. And of course in 2017 3 of them in their prime fled from 2 old Majingilanes. Would the average lion perform so poorly in a clash? I don't think so, on average 5 lions will almost always not ran from only 3, and 3 prime males running from 2 old males is also incredibly rare. 
Actually the Majingilanes accepted the Ximhungwes, subs and all. It was mostly the Othawas that nearly wiped out the pride. Mostly because they kept seeking out the Majingilanes and trespassing.
The Ximhungwes are also one of the victims of the current situation and may also go extinct if things continue. And what exactly are the pros of the whole situation? A break away group with nearly the same genetic composition as their origin pride settles down there. Diminishing the genetic diversity in the reserve even further? Having less lions? Even without the Birmingham's killing them the two prides were already barely clinging on. Just 3 adult mostly elderly females in the Othawa pride and 2 in the Ximhungwe one. There are singular prides that outnumber them both together. To say that western sector was overpopulated is a stretch. (01-05-2023, 01:03 AM)Mapokser Wrote: @Tr1x24 you said I was claiming they did something wrong or unnatural, when I clearly didn't. I said it was unfortunately that it happened, just like you think it's unfortunate Nhenha might be injured or dead. Ok, then sry. (01-05-2023, 01:03 AM)Mapokser Wrote: They being young nomads isn't an excuse for fleeing the Majingilanes, it was in mid 2015, iirc they had ousted Matimbas already and were 5yo already, same age PCM are rn, and were 5 against only 3. If it was mid 2015, then they didn't oust Matimbas yet, and where not 5 yrs old, as most Bboy, except Nsuku, where prob born around late 2010 - early 2011 period. Regardless, i dont want to go into this discussion now. (01-05-2023, 01:18 AM)Duco Ndona Wrote: And what exactly are the pros of the whole situation? I didn't say there are pros, but people are over blaming Nhenha/NK, without them, situation would play almost the same. Tumbela would lose territory against PC males, they where already occasionaly invading and chasing him even when he was still in charge. PC males would also kill 2 old Othawa females, who would again defend their cubs, as they did vs Nk/Nhenha, Sassy would be again alone with remaining cubs. As for Ximungwe/Gingerella offspring, even without NK/Nhenha, there still would be sneaky Tumbela boy, hanging with them when PC males are east. I didn't say western sector is overpopulated, yet Sabi Sands as a whole, Talamatis might settle down in western sector, for what we know.
There were 56-57 lions living in the Western Sector in 2006. It's been 16-17 years and the population has never come close to recover after the Mapogos arrived ( plus humans wiping out the Sand River Pride which I think lived there too ).
So clearly situation isn't good. I'd buy that argument if the lions were actually not threatened by humans and had huge territories they once had in the past where they could flee to and thrive if under threat. 
Trying to ascertain when these were EXACTLY taken.
Guest says recently which isn’t good enough for me. I prefer exact date. Nhenha is present. 
@criollo2mil I posted this when people were saying it was Tumbela. It looks like on FB they said last day of 2022. Which makes sense. The Ximhungwes were spotted alone today.
(01-05-2023, 02:32 AM)SMK350 Wrote: @criollo2mil I posted this when people were saying it was Tumbela. It looks like on FB they said last day of 2022. Which makes sense. The Ximhungwes were spotted alone today. That’s why it’s critical to know. I believe the date of the supposed conflict was 1 January. If this was taken on that eve, then it doesn’t clear up the confusion about Nhenha’s whereabouts. 
I wish we could get an Idube source to confirm. It seem silly if this was from today and no official announcement was made. I would assume all of the western sector is aware of the missing Bboy.
I think the core territory of the PCmales lies further to the east and does not cover most of western sector. They sometimes travel west. Afterall, being the most powerfull coalition they can do pretty much as they please. But usually they stay east with the Mhangeni. Making them easier to avoid and allowing the Tumbellas to remain territorial.
I dont think the Ximhungwe pride is of any interest to the PC males either. Its more Skorro that takes advantage of the Birmingham's disappearances right now. Without the Birmingham's, we would probably see a continuation of the situation as it was before their arrival. Limper and Skorro would be dominant over both the Ximhungwe pride. Limper would still have passed away. Though perhaps a bit later. Occasionally there will be a raid from the PCmales or a clash between the two prides. We will lose some lions in those. But they will likely keep enough alive to ensure a future for the prides without much worry. Alternatively, even if the PC males take over the Ximhungwe pride at one point. It would atleast keep both of those occupied for the Othawas. I agree Skorro will likely cause trouble then for the Ximhungwe pride aswell. He may even die in a conflict or kill some of the cubs there. But it wouldn't be as drastic of an outcome. Eventually the Tumbellas will be ousted anyway but the odds of this happening only after the subs are old enough are much better.
According to the Instagram it was filmed this morning.
So ultimately it was all a lot a do about nothing.
So if these were from today, I wonder if the Ranger Stu guy simply mistook Nhenha for Skorro. He might have seen him from a distance and sleeping and maybe why there was no new pics?
Anyways….next few days or so should bring more clarity
@criollo2mil let be cautiously optimistic but there are people on FB saying they followed her account and she is not longer in Africa but just posting late. There’s a language barrier here.
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