There is a world somewhere between reality and fiction. Although ignored by many, it is very real and so are those living in it. This forum is about the natural world. Here, wild animals will be heard and respected. The forum offers a glimpse into an unknown world as well as a room with a view on the present and the future. Anyone able to speak on behalf of those living in the emerald forest and the deep blue sea is invited to join.
Could this explain shiny black hue of the Kahayan mandible?
Very well could have similar preservation, nice catch! To my recollection, the Peace river fossils have lots of phosphate that give the fossils a black color. While I don't think there is official peatland in the area the Peace riverbed has been described at "peaty". Organic phosphate is an important part of organic sediments like peat.
Even the Szechuan giant skull was derived from the peatland, but it was stained with the brownish hue instead of the shiny black like those fossils from the bottom of the river.
Maybe the peatlands from the Central China was based on tough soil, not the muddy one from Siberia or at the bottom of the river?
The Szechuan province has mostly the mountainous areas, hence the peatlands over there may be tougher?
In addition to those differences, the temperature may have also influenced the final fossilization. Warm temperatures fasten chemical processes so that could in part explain why southern fossils are more the shade of peat as there was much more mineral exchange by the time the fossil was unearthed.
''At the bottom of a chasm in the northwest portion of Distrito Federal (DF) - Brazil, a big cat's skull was found.
The explorers found the skull in an abyss over 60 meters deep located in Morro da Pedreira.
The huge fangs leaves no doubt, it is a legitimate skull of a jaguar.
This is irrefutable proof of the presence of these felines in the region of (DF) and its surroundings and more proof that the jaguar was once the predator that dominated the plateaus and valleys of the ''Quadradinho'' (place/area).
Findings like this only leave us more questions...
How did that skull get to the bottom of the abyss?
Pic taken during the investigation and examination over the skull of the poached big cat.
*This image is copyright of its original author
The 72-year-old medical examiner ( coroner ) Badan Palhares, one of the most renowned experts in Brazil was in Campo Grande on Monday (30) at the invitation of the Faculty of Veterinary Medicine and Zootechnics of UFMS (Federal University of Mato Grosso do Sul). The objective was to find out the cause of death of a jaguar that was part of the Project Onças do Rio Negro which was killed in the region of Aquidauana in the Pantanal of Mato Grosso do Sul.
Palhares made it clear that the idea was not to point out those responsible for the crime but to participate in a college initiative which is to preserve the local fauna.
The work was accompanied by experts from the Institute of Criminalistics who researched the dynamics of the animal's death.
"My presence is more as a collaborator and also to awaken awareness in local authorities of the importance of setting up a sector of expertise for environmental crimes. With this, besides punishing those responsible new cases would be inhibited" said the coroner.
The animal was a male jaguar of approximately five years old. The capture for the implementation of the electronic collar took place in July and for two months there was satellite monitoring and signals in VHF. In September the satellite signals ceased. Two months later a new search was made and through the VHF signal the animal's remains were found in an area of difficult access.
As there were several signs in the skull it was not possible to identify what had really happened and it was then decided to invite the coroner Badan Palhares who promptly accepted.
*This image is copyright of its original author
*This image is copyright of its original author
Resuts:
In the first examination it was already found that the animal had an old lesion in the region of the nostrils. The fatal shot hit the big cat's face in the region below the eye and did not puncture the cranial box. In the surveys made at the site it was concluded that the 130kg male jaguar was shot in one place then he agonized for some time and looked for another place for refuge, where the carcass was found.
The experts of the Institute of Criminalistics found that the calibre of the gun used was higher than 22 and that there was no fragmentation of the projectile. The examination indicates that the shot was fired frontally and from top to bottom.
This the 130kg Pantanal male named Sossego who was unfortunately poached in 2015.
(07-30-2015, 11:35 PM)peter Wrote: 1 - OLD WORLD BIG CATS
a - Zoologischer Garten Berlin
The upper skull of a distant ancestor of modern big cats exhibited in the Zoologischer Garten in Berlin. This cat had extremely long and wide upper canines, but they were not thick and prone to breakage. The skull is shorter and narrower than that of a modern adult male lion or tiger:
*This image is copyright of its original author
b - Panthera zdansky
This Pleistocene tiger, one of the (quite distant) ancestors of modern tigers, already had shorter, but thicker (and conical) upper canines. The skull is short and not as wide as that of a modern big cat:
*This image is copyright of its original author
c - China (private collection?)
The skull of this big cat was found in China. It could have belonged to a Late Pleistocene or early Holocene tiger, when large herbivores were everywhere and humans avoided big cats for good reasons. The skull is elevated at the orbits, wide and very robust. The upper canines are extremely robust. An upgraded zdansky, one could say. The photograph was first posted by Grizzly:
*This image is copyright of its original author
2 - MODERN BIG CATS
a - Panthera leo
This skull, one of the largest I measured, belonged to a wild male lion. It had the longest upper canines I saw (66,00 mm.). They appear to be shortish, but that partly is a result of the length of the upper skull (384,60 mm.). The skull was elevated at the orbit, moderately wide and muscular. Notice the extended maxillary bone (snout). Also notice the position of the upper canines and the angle:
*This image is copyright of its original author
b - Panthera tigris altaica
This is the skull of a poached wild male Amur tiger. Skulls of wild male Amur tigers, for greatest total length (a trifle shorter) and zygomatic width (a tad wider), compare to those of wild male lions. Most wild male lions have a longer snout and a flatter profile (upper skull). The upper canines of Amur tigers are unsurpassed for length and width at the insertion of the upper jaw. Notice the angle is different as well:
*This image is copyright of its original author
This is the skull of a captive adult male Amur tiger:
*This image is copyright of its original author
c - Panthera tigris tigris (the Indian or Bengal tiger)
This is the skull of a large wild male Nepal tiger (the Sauraha tiger). When darted, he entered a pool and accidentally drowned. Compare the skull to the one of the wild male Amur tiger poached (see above). Although they are shorter, nearly all skulls of Indian tigers I measured were heavier than those of Amur tigers (nearly all of them captive animals). The reason is not size, but bone density. Same in wild animals in that wild Amurs are a bit longer, but not as heavy:
*This image is copyright of its original author
d - Panthera tigris sondaica (the Javan tiger)
This skull is in the Wiesbaden Museum and belonged to an adult wild male Java tiger. Although undamaged, the skull was acquired before 1836 (...) in Java. Java skulls usually are vaulted (profile), whereas the mandibula often is concave. Although short compared to Indian tigers, the skulls are anything but feeble. Notice the short and low sagittal crest. This is a result of skull size (greatest total length). Uppercaninewise, Javan tigers often exceed those of wild male lions. Of all skulls I saw, I like those of Javan tigers best:
*This image is copyright of its original author
@peter
Incredible skulls and fangs of them all, do you have pictures with measurements of upper fangs of Sumatran and Bengal Tigers?
(07-30-2015, 11:35 PM)peter Wrote: 1 - OLD WORLD BIG CATS
a - Zoologischer Garten Berlin
The upper skull of a distant ancestor of modern big cats exhibited in the Zoologischer Garten in Berlin. This cat had extremely long and wide upper canines, but they were not thick and prone to breakage. The skull is shorter and narrower than that of a modern adult male lion or tiger:
*This image is copyright of its original author
b - Panthera zdansky
This Pleistocene tiger, one of the (quite distant) ancestors of modern tigers, already had shorter, but thicker (and conical) upper canines. The skull is short and not as wide as that of a modern big cat:
*This image is copyright of its original author
c - China (private collection?)
The skull of this big cat was found in China. It could have belonged to a Late Pleistocene or early Holocene tiger, when large herbivores were everywhere and humans avoided big cats for good reasons. The skull is elevated at the orbits, wide and very robust. The upper canines are extremely robust. An upgraded zdansky, one could say. The photograph was first posted by Grizzly:
*This image is copyright of its original author
2 - MODERN BIG CATS
a - Panthera leo
This skull, one of the largest I measured, belonged to a wild male lion. It had the longest upper canines I saw (66,00 mm.). They appear to be shortish, but that partly is a result of the length of the upper skull (384,60 mm.). The skull was elevated at the orbit, moderately wide and muscular. Notice the extended maxillary bone (snout). Also notice the position of the upper canines and the angle:
*This image is copyright of its original author
b - Panthera tigris altaica
This is the skull of a poached wild male Amur tiger. Skulls of wild male Amur tigers, for greatest total length (a trifle shorter) and zygomatic width (a tad wider), compare to those of wild male lions. Most wild male lions have a longer snout and a flatter profile (upper skull). The upper canines of Amur tigers are unsurpassed for length and width at the insertion of the upper jaw. Notice the angle is different as well:
*This image is copyright of its original author
This is the skull of a captive adult male Amur tiger:
*This image is copyright of its original author
c - Panthera tigris tigris (the Indian or Bengal tiger)
This is the skull of a large wild male Nepal tiger (the Sauraha tiger). When darted, he entered a pool and accidentally drowned. Compare the skull to the one of the wild male Amur tiger poached (see above). Although they are shorter, nearly all skulls of Indian tigers I measured were heavier than those of Amur tigers (nearly all of them captive animals). The reason is not size, but bone density. Same in wild animals in that wild Amurs are a bit longer, but not as heavy:
*This image is copyright of its original author
d - Panthera tigris sondaica (the Javan tiger)
This skull is in the Wiesbaden Museum and belonged to an adult wild male Java tiger. Although undamaged, the skull was acquired before 1836 (...) in Java. Java skulls usually are vaulted (profile), whereas the mandibula often is concave. Although short compared to Indian tigers, the skulls are anything but feeble. Notice the short and low sagittal crest. This is a result of skull size (greatest total length). Uppercaninewise, Javan tigers often exceed those of wild male lions. Of all skulls I saw, I like those of Javan tigers best:
*This image is copyright of its original author
@peter
Incredible skulls and fangs of them all, do you have pictures with measurements of upper fangs of Sumatran and Bengal Tigers?
EPAIVA
I've photographs and measurements of every skull I measured. When ready (in a few months), I'll post everything I have in the tiger extinction thread.
My aim is to visit a few institutions and museums in Russia, India and China in the near future. The reason is it's difficult to find skulls of wild Amur, Chinese and Indian tigers in European museums.
When you find reliable information about skulls of wild tigers, please let me know.
(07-30-2015, 11:35 PM)peter Wrote: 1 - OLD WORLD BIG CATS
a - Zoologischer Garten Berlin
The upper skull of a distant ancestor of modern big cats exhibited in the Zoologischer Garten in Berlin. This cat had extremely long and wide upper canines, but they were not thick and prone to breakage. The skull is shorter and narrower than that of a modern adult male lion or tiger:
*This image is copyright of its original author
b - Panthera zdansky
This Pleistocene tiger, one of the (quite distant) ancestors of modern tigers, already had shorter, but thicker (and conical) upper canines. The skull is short and not as wide as that of a modern big cat:
*This image is copyright of its original author
c - China (private collection?)
The skull of this big cat was found in China. It could have belonged to a Late Pleistocene or early Holocene tiger, when large herbivores were everywhere and humans avoided big cats for good reasons. The skull is elevated at the orbits, wide and very robust. The upper canines are extremely robust. An upgraded zdansky, one could say. The photograph was first posted by Grizzly:
*This image is copyright of its original author
2 - MODERN BIG CATS
a - Panthera leo
This skull, one of the largest I measured, belonged to a wild male lion. It had the longest upper canines I saw (66,00 mm.). They appear to be shortish, but that partly is a result of the length of the upper skull (384,60 mm.). The skull was elevated at the orbit, moderately wide and muscular. Notice the extended maxillary bone (snout). Also notice the position of the upper canines and the angle:
*This image is copyright of its original author
b - Panthera tigris altaica
This is the skull of a poached wild male Amur tiger. Skulls of wild male Amur tigers, for greatest total length (a trifle shorter) and zygomatic width (a tad wider), compare to those of wild male lions. Most wild male lions have a longer snout and a flatter profile (upper skull). The upper canines of Amur tigers are unsurpassed for length and width at the insertion of the upper jaw. Notice the angle is different as well:
*This image is copyright of its original author
This is the skull of a captive adult male Amur tiger:
*This image is copyright of its original author
c - Panthera tigris tigris (the Indian or Bengal tiger)
This is the skull of a large wild male Nepal tiger (the Sauraha tiger). When darted, he entered a pool and accidentally drowned. Compare the skull to the one of the wild male Amur tiger poached (see above). Although they are shorter, nearly all skulls of Indian tigers I measured were heavier than those of Amur tigers (nearly all of them captive animals). The reason is not size, but bone density. Same in wild animals in that wild Amurs are a bit longer, but not as heavy:
*This image is copyright of its original author
d - Panthera tigris sondaica (the Javan tiger)
This skull is in the Wiesbaden Museum and belonged to an adult wild male Java tiger. Although undamaged, the skull was acquired before 1836 (...) in Java. Java skulls usually are vaulted (profile), whereas the mandibula often is concave. Although short compared to Indian tigers, the skulls are anything but feeble. Notice the short and low sagittal crest. This is a result of skull size (greatest total length). Uppercaninewise, Javan tigers often exceed those of wild male lions. Of all skulls I saw, I like those of Javan tigers best:
*This image is copyright of its original author
@peter
Incredible skulls and fangs of them all, do you have pictures with measurements of upper fangs of Sumatran and Bengal Tigers?
EPAIVA
I've photographs and measurements of every skull I measured. When ready (in a few months), I'll post everything I have in the tiger extinction thread.
My aim is to visit a few institutions and museums in Russia, India and China in the near future. The reason is it's difficult to find skulls of wild Amur, Chinese and Indian tigers in European museums.
When you find reliable information about skulls of wild tigers, please let me know.
@peter
Very good I will be waiting for your valuable information
