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Tiger Predation

Canada Wolverine Offline
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( This post was last modified: 09-01-2018, 03:05 AM by Wolverine )

My statement that gaur has a thinner throat than wild buffaloes is not a fact, but an opinion. This opinion was originally not mine and is based on a comperative graphic-image gaur-cape buffalo posted in wildfact earlier, post No 45:
https://wildfact.com/forum/topic-all-abo...rus?page=3

@Pckts , if you don't mind, could you please re-post again this image here (No 45, thread "All about gaur"), since I have no computer skills to do this?? If you did this before probably you will be able to do this for the guys again. Without that comparative image is no sense to discus the topic anymore. 

We should not look how thick is the neck of the gaur, but how thin is the throat of gaur in its initial part, where it starts from the skull. If you see also other images of gaurs you can notice that its throat looks amazingly thin for such a gigantic and muscular body, such animal could be strangulated not only by tiger, but even probably by a cat with the size of jaguar. I don't insist on that but my opinion is that wild buffaloes - both cape and water buffaloes posess more robust throats and necks than gaur and it would be harder to be strangulated by tiger than  gaur. Also they are lower and would be harder for predator to snick beneath and get the throat.
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Canada Wolverine Offline
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*This image is copyright of its original author
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India Rishi Offline
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( This post was last modified: 09-01-2018, 03:11 PM by Rishi )

(08-31-2018, 12:37 PM)Vegeta San Wrote: So you telling that tiger takes many days to kill a adult gaur? 
No you're wrong at this. It doesn't take much time for a Tiger to kill a healthy adult gaur. The last post of @peter has shown few cases of Tiger killing adult bull wild buffalos instantly.

Quote:But it doesn't take days to kill a gaur! Tiger is not a house cat. That quote from @Wolverine is totally wrong! 

You shouldn't just call someone "totally wrong" like that. 

The cases of quick kills have been recorded, but that doesn't make them the norm. The tiger predation thread is full of hamstringed gaurs with open rumps & untouched throat. Cases of tigers injuring gaurs & finishing them off later are also there.

The fact is that we have till date only one full footage of a tiger hunting a gaur, against probably thousands of lions' bullfalo hunt. That is how less we know what exactly happens. 

IMO we best start collecting what the forest guides & guards have to say. They know more that all the internet combined...



(09-01-2018, 10:49 AM)Wolverine Wrote: Suprisingly enough maybe there is some true in the story about Shere Khan and his "servant" - Tabaki the jackal, serving as a spy of his master - the tiger. In India are known some special satellite jackals called "kol-bahl" a few words about them are written even in wiki:

"In India, lone jackals expelled from their pack have been known to form commensal relationships with tigers. These solitary jackals, known as [i]kol-bahl[/i], will associate themselves with a particular tiger, trailing it at a safe distance to feed on the big cat's kills. A [i]kol-bahl[/i] will even alert a tiger to prey with a loud "pheal". Tigers have been known to tolerate these jackals, with one report describing how a jackal confidently walked in and out between three tigers walking together."

This jackal is quite a mysterious creature and literaly could serve as a eyes and ears of the tiger. This relationship could become particulary ominous if the tiger turn to be a man-eater. The great British hunter Keneth Anderson in his blood-freezing documentary story "The Call of the Man-eater" describes a case when such a jackal make "reconnaissance" work for the tiger finding out a lonely people close to the villages and informing the tiger about their presence with laud hawling. After half an hour the man-eater usually arrives and kills the victim. If a danger appears the jackal informs the tiger by alarm barking. Keneth Anderson needed several weeks to realise what really is going on. 

@Rishi do you know something more about kol-bahl?

Yes. It often happens. They follow the tigers just like arctic foxes often shadow polar bears.

Actually they have quite a popular duo (like tom & jerry) in Bengali childrens' literature. The shrewd jackal calls the tiger "maternal uncle" & tiger calls him "nephhew". The jackal play tricks on the tiger & so on... I had the whole collection, they were my favourites as a kid. Can't find the book now. Here's few examples, see if it can translate. My platform is bengali compatible, it doesn't...
বাঘ_মামা_আর_শিয়াল_ভাগ্নে
বোকা_বাঘ
বাঘের_পালকি_চড়া
"Everything not saved will be lost."

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Canada Wolverine Offline
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( This post was last modified: 09-03-2018, 11:38 AM by Wolverine )

(09-01-2018, 12:26 AM)Vegeta San Wrote: But it doesn't take days to kill a gaur! Tiger is not a house cat. That quote … is totally wrong!

It is right. Could be remembered two cases of prolonged fights between tigers and gaurs:

1. In his documentary story "The Big Bull Bison of Gedesal" the famous British hunter Kenneth Anderson decribes a case when a bull gaur has fight all night long for his life with a male tiger. The terrific roars from the battle were heard for many hours in surrounding village. Both beasts were very tenasious and nobody wanted to give a way. When Anderson arrived next morning at the place he saw the dead body of the tiger and the vegetation around was totally smashed during the struggle. Gaur succeeded to penetrate with his horn the chest of the tiger and poke his heart. The bull was so badly wounded that Andesron described that his intestines were pulling out (curiosly enough I don't remember about any neck wounds). Amazingly step by step the big bull recovered during next weeks and survived. 
You can read the story "The Big Bull Bison of Gedesal" in this book and order it by amazon:

*This image is copyright of its original author


2. The recent case with the male gaur "Odin" mentioned by PC. Two animals also fighted all night long, tiger was obviously searching the weak place of the bull but finally decided that its two strong to be killed. The story with the male gaur Odin in details was posted earlier in wildfact with photos. 

Odin:

*This image is copyright of its original author



Ok. So now Vegeta San let's imagine that Odin was not so strong, but a bit weaker. After causing him some wounds the tiger feeling that the herbivore is progressively weakening by losing blood and traumas will not leave the surroundings but will check the gaur the second night and the third night for sure and if decides that the gaur is already not enough strong will kill it, be sure. So as you can see the statement that tiger hunt of bull gaur could take a long periods of time is not completely wrong, but completely right.
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India Vegeta San Offline
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Wolverine Wrote:It is right. Could be remembered two cases of prolonged fights between tigers and gaurs:
Quote:1. In his documentary story "The Big Bull Bison of Gedesal" the famous British hunter Kenneth Anderson decribes a case when a bull gaur has fight all night long for his life with a male tiger. The terrific roars from the battle were heard for many hours in surrounding village. Both beasts were very tenasious and nobody wanted to give a way. When Anderson arrived next morning at the place he saw the dead body of the tiger and the vegetation around was totally smashed during the struggle. Gaur succeeded to penetrate with his horn the chest of the tiger and poke his heart. The bull was so badly wounded that Andesron described that his intestines were pulling out (curiosly enough I don't remember about any neck wounds). Amazingly step by step the big bull recovered during next weeks and survived. 
You can read the story "The Big Bull Bison of Gedesal" in this book and order it by amazon:

*This image is copyright of its original author

*This image is copyright of its original author

I didn't said a bull can't fought off a tiger. But that based on tiger and it's mood. Do you have any details about this particular tiger. As predator will not always to be serious but prey will try to fought off predator too serious and until last drop of blood.

Wolverine Wrote:2
Quote:. The recent case with the male gaur "Odin" mentioned by PC. Two animals also fighted all night long, tiger was obviously searching the weak place of the bull but finally decided that its two strong to be killed. The story with the male gaur Odin in details was posted earlier in wildfact with photos. 

Odin:

*This image is copyright of its original author

*This image is copyright of its original author
Like I said above. I agree bull gaur can fought off tiger. And it based on predator.


Wolverine Wrote:Ok. So now Vegeta San let's imagine that Odin was not so strong, but a bit weaker. After causing him some wounds the tiger feeling that the herbivore is progressively weakening by losing blood and traumas will not leave the surroundings but will check the gaur the second night and the third night for sure and if decides that the gaur is already not enough strong will kill it, be sure. So as you can see the statement that tiger hunt of bull gaur could take a long periods of time is not completely wrong, but completely right.
I never heard something like tiger getting back to check out gaur health condition to take on and kill it. I don't think they do. If you have some accounts like that then it should be some of the rare incident but never be common technique for tiger..
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( This post was last modified: 09-04-2018, 02:31 AM by Wolverine )

Colegue, here the question is not what we are talking about, but how we talk. Everybody of us has his own opinions. If you don't agree with somebody just say: "I disagree with you" or "My opinion is different". But if say to somebody - "your statement is "totally wrong", than you are insulting the person... I think Rishi already told you.
In any way nobody of us is perfect, so already forgot about that. That's way I sometimes avoid communication if forums, its harder than in real life.
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India parvez Offline
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Guys I had a good conversation with an onfield expert. He told me tigers regularly feed on gaurs. Sometimes they bring down gaurs in less than a minute by getting hold of their upper neck by jumping on their bodies. In forests with good densities of garu, they were known to learn to bring down gaurs in less than 5 minutes. There may be some exceptional cases from the past where less weighted tigers may have taken almost half a day and some ill fated tigers may have been killed in fights but in most of cases the tiger successfully predates on gaurs.
Wisdom of third eye
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India Rishi Offline
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(09-05-2018, 02:37 PM)parvez Wrote: Guys I had a good conversation with an onfield expert. He told me tigers regularly feed on gaurs. Sometimes they bring down gaurs in less than a minute by getting hold of their upper neck by jumping on their bodies. In forests with good densities of garu, they were known to learn to bring down gaurs in less than 5 minutes. There may be some exceptional cases from the past where less weighted tigers may have taken almost half a day and some ill fated tigers may have been killed in fights but in most of cases the tiger successfully predates on gaurs.
"Everything not saved will be lost."

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India Rishi Offline
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Atul Dhamankar's post on indiawilds.com.

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"Everything not saved will be lost."

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India parvez Offline
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( This post was last modified: 09-06-2018, 08:14 AM by Rishi )

Though rare, tigers do take down rhinos and elephants. This has been confirmed by quite a number of onfield experts who are the best judges on these topics. If they take down gaurs in less than 5 minutes in high density gaur areas, then in further prolonged fights or even smaller duration fights in which they succeed in quickly breaking the neck of the prey they seem to predate successfully on rhinos and elephants. In my honest opinion they seem to have primary target of breaking the bones of neck (when attacking top portion of neck) rather than inflicting severe physical bloody injury to their necks. They seem to have developed a new technique.
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Sri Lanka Apollo Offline
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Tiger carries it's kill in Corbett




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( This post was last modified: 09-09-2018, 08:22 AM by Jimmy )

Some pics from Nepal's Bardiya National Park
Beth Weiler
Wild life moment today watched a wild Bengal tiger stalk and chase a rhino mother and her calf ... unreal!! Both rhinos survived unscathed, but us wildlife watchers had to evacuate the area as the three animals came charging towards us and up the river bank where we were sitting

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slightly different angle by a guide Bhawany Kandel Baba

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Another one, looks like the same tiger stalking the same rhino in a different time, Bardiya

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India Rishi Offline
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( This post was last modified: 09-09-2018, 10:25 AM by Rishi )

Ullas Karanth's words on tiger & the art of gaur-hunt. From an old article:

"After examining hundreds of tiger kills, I had concluded that all successful gaur hunts would begin with the tiger launching a lateral sneak attack. Then it would grapple the massive prey down to the ground, while trying to deliver a killing bite to its neck. The tiger would thus try to stay out of harm from dangerous horns and flailing hooves.

From 1990 to 1996, while doing the very first radio-telemetry study of tigers in India, I followed a young, rather obese male tiger nicknamed Das in honor of our portly camp cook. Das had also specialized in hunting gaur. Radio-tracking Das on foot one morning, I blundered close to a gaur cow, which he had apparently badly mauled. The wounded gaur angrily charged me, and I barely managed to escape. Later that night Das killed and ate her.

My camera trap research shows that even in Bandipur-Nagarahole’s protected population, about 20 percent of tigers are lost every year. Tigers die in conflict with humans or occasionally from poaching on the edges of Reserves, but more often than not they die fighting other tigers over mates, kills, or territories. Occasionally tigers also die from injuries sustained while hunting potentially dangerous prey.

One day in October 1991, after two years of radio-tracking Das, I homed in on his signals in the remoteness of his 50-square kilometer home range only to find his week-old, decayed carcass. Investigation of the flatted bushes, trampled grass, and huge hoof prints of a gaur at the site revealed that, for once, his predatory skills had failed Das. His addiction to hunting gaur had finally rendered the magnificent cat into a mere mortality statistic. As I watched the video, I hoped BPT-222 would be luckier.

(About Rajah's gaur hunt video)

Instead of pulling the female gaur down, he manipulates her neck with his powerful forelimbs and clamps down his vice-like jaws around her throat. Plunged in by the tiger’s powerful jaw muscles, his four 76 millimeter dagger-like canines bury deeply into her throat. The tiger then nimbly gets back on his feet, still facing the gaur. By tugging mightily in “reverse gear” he ensures her lethal hooves are helplessly grounded, and sharp horns pushed away from him. The tiger waits, almost calmly, jaws firmly locked in place, steadily choking the victim. Within three minutes the gaur topples, strangled to death. This tiger made neither a sneaky flank attack nor wrestled the prey down. His predatory skill makes the violent act seem almost peaceful."
"Everything not saved will be lost."

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Canada Wolverine Offline
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( This post was last modified: 09-09-2018, 10:51 AM by Wolverine )

(09-09-2018, 10:16 AM)Rishi Wrote: Radio-tracking Das on foot one morning, I blundered close to a gaur cow, which he had apparently badly mauled. The wounded gaur angrily charged me, and I barely managed to escape. Later that night Das killed and ate her.

That mean that tiger mauled the gaur cow first night and killed her on the second night. That's virtually ends the discussion how long could (in some cases) continue hunting of big herbivore...
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Canada Wolverine Offline
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Very persistent predator, no mercy ...
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