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Tiger Predation

Nepal Jimmy Offline
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(08-03-2018, 02:27 AM)Wolverine Wrote: Feeding from one particular spot of the carcass doesn't necessary mean killing it by applying a strike in same point of the body, we cant be sure from the image that the rhino hadn't wounds in other parts of body. For me killing an adult rhino by nape bite looks close to impossible. Maybe I'm wrong.

it's true but that's if you want to completely ignore what the camerman had said and also refuse the referential pic accompanying the claim. If you want to believe him then coincidentally that's what the tiger is seen feeding. Unless the cameraman wants to ruin everything, tarnishing his reputation and become a balant lier there is no way just to bluff his claim and stick to our hypothesis. Yeah it does look close to impossible tiger normally wouldn't do a nape bite even to large deer, but throat bite to a rhino would be suicidal and scenario may have presented itself on that fateful day to do a nape bite. We know how a jaguar kills, and tiger with it's full bite force may have managed to do the unthinkable.
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Canada Wolverine Offline
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( This post was last modified: 08-03-2018, 09:41 AM by Wolverine )

Jimmy, when you make your next visit to Royal Chitwan (probably you sometimes visit the aria) maybe you can talk with local forest officers on this topic, they could throw an additional light on this question, because its very fascinating.
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India Rishi Offline
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( This post was last modified: 08-03-2018, 10:30 AM by Rishi )

(08-03-2018, 09:09 AM)Shir Babr Wrote: No need to argue about that since this is what the person said:

"--Rajarshi Banerji: Pl read narrative. It broke the grazing rhino's neck, jumping in from a vantage point. Didn't pierce its hide much at that stage."

So NO biting and the rhino wasn't stuck in mud. He claimed that the tiger jumped on top of the unsuspecting rhino when it was feeding, breaking his neck on impact...

Forgive me if i have a hard time believing that!

The only reason i'm not wholeheartedly seconding @Jimmy is because i don't know if tigers are capable of snapping a young rhino's neck, by wrenching it... the Jurassic Park way;




"Everything not saved will be lost."

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Nepal Jimmy Offline
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( This post was last modified: 08-03-2018, 12:23 PM by Jimmy )

(08-03-2018, 09:41 AM)Wolverine Wrote: Jimmy, when you make your next visit to Royal Chitwan (probably you sometimes visit the aria) maybe you can talk with local forest officers on this topic, they could throw an additional light on this question, because its very fascinating.
I go there around one time in two three years , i want to go every year but due to family and kids it is not possible, up to now around six-seven times, one time also in Shuklaphanta in far west-all had rhinos. Majority of all naturalist i talk to say tiger will prey on calves, injured or old rhinos. But majority will only see carcass that was partially consumed. They say as per regulation you cannot take a photo and also not publish any discovered carcass of a rhino inside of national park- it will be a great issue they said. Norm is to take away horns, nails of feet and shoulder hide that is valuable to poachers and leave the carcass as it is. I already had posted about my Chitwan trip, where we did come across rhino carcass that was quite old, wild boars were eating it-I had not mentioned that due to the reason above.

*This image is copyright of its original author

The rhino was quite a big individual-they (the naturalist) say it was a bull who either fought with another bull and died or was injured and the tiger took it. They also had not known the exact spot where it had died because as we were walking and came across it, they started to take photos and said "Oh! so it was here (the carcass)" meaning they had known about the incident but did not know the exact area in all these months. There was no stench, you could go right up to the carcass and see all details. The thing is naturalist know about the place, birds and animals and general behaviours, they seldom see extra-ordinary events, they might have heard about it but it's up to you to take it. When i visited Chitwan, it's hard to believe a tiger will go for anything else besides chital, sambar or hog deer-they are so plentiful and can be seen everywhere even wild boars were common, and seeing this i tend to think tiger probably would not require all that power to hunt gaur, buffaloes or even rhino calves, yet when i see crocs-big mugger crocs basking carelessly- i know from the fact that tiger could burst into the scene from the tall grass and could take it out before my eyes. That is what is fascinating about the wildlfe. Maybe i haven't seen a full grown tiger in the wild in the wild grass to actually behold it's size to make an  analysis against other wildlife. Next time probably i should talk  to higher officials and find out more infos on tiger's prey.
(08-03-2018, 09:56 AM)Rishi Wrote:
(08-03-2018, 09:09 AM)Shir Babr Wrote: No need to argue about that since this is what the person said:

"--Rajarshi Banerji: Pl read narrative. It broke the grazing rhino's neck, jumping in from a vantage point. Didn't pierce its hide much at that stage."

So NO biting and the rhino wasn't stuck in mud. He claimed that the tiger jumped on top of the unsuspecting rhino when it was feeding, breaking his neck on impact...

Forgive me if i have a hard time believing that!

The only reason i'm not wholeheartedly seconding @Jimmy is because i don't know if tigers are capable of snapping a young rhino's neck, by wrenching it... the Jurassic Park way;




Definetely it's hard to know exactly how the tiger did it :) In the end may not be as dramatic as those involving monsterous dinos^ like the tiger that made a gaur kill look too easy.
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United States Roflcopters Offline
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here is an account of KZT085’s predation on a adult female rhino (Nov/2017) and killing a young sub adult male tiger that showed up to eat. 

After the terrible incident of losing three one-horned rhinos in three days in Kaziranga, the park again mourned the death of one more rhino and a Royal Bengal Tiger. However, this time the reason for the death is not poaching but a brawl between the two animals which unfortunately lost their lives in the fight. The carcasses of the two animals of endangered species were found lying next to each other on Tuesday, Nov 7, 2017, by the forest officials in the Bagori Range of the park.
The forest officials suspect the reason to be the fight between the two animals on the account that the rhino’s horn and the body parts of the tiger were intact. While the dead tiger is said to be a sub-adult male of about two-and-a-half-year, the rhino was a female of around 20 years. According to officials, another possible reason of the death of the animals could be that an adult tiger might have killed the rhino, and the sub-adult tiger strayed into the adult tiger’s territory and eyed a share of the rhino meat, reluctant to share, the older tiger might have killed him as well. The officials suggest this theory after finding fresh tiger droppings close to the two carcasses.
Tiger predation is a common case in Kaziranga National Park, however, the death of both the animals is the rarest sight in the reserve. There have been around 472 rhinos due to tiger predation in Kaziranga National Park between the year 1982 and 2014 and the highest casualties of around 26 rhinos were reported in the year 2004.


https://www.kaziranga-national-park.com/blog/royal-bengal-tiger-and-rhinoceros-found-dead-in-kaziranga/
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Canada Wolverine Offline
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Wink  ( This post was last modified: 08-04-2018, 11:25 AM by Wolverine )

(08-03-2018, 09:56 AM)Rishi Wrote: ... the Jurassic Park way




With that T-rex neck snap you won the prize for best post of the year... !
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India Rishi Offline
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( This post was last modified: 08-05-2018, 06:03 AM by Rishi )

(08-04-2018, 10:43 AM)Wolverine Wrote: With that T-rex neck snap you won the prize for best post of the year... !
(08-03-2018, 12:12 PM)Jimmy Wrote: Definetely it's hard to know exactly how the tiger did it :) In the end may not be as dramatic as those involving monsterous dinos^ like the tiger that made a gaur kill look too easy.

Alright, i'm getting a feeling that both of you missed what i was trying to say with the video.

I believe you already know how a rhino's neck is on the inside;

*This image is copyright of its original author
 
Clearly, even if he has long enough canines & adequate bite-force, a tiger's jaw-gape simply isn't wide enough to possibly do any damage to a rhino's spine... not in one go. He might take a chunk of flesh with a full powered bite, but he cannot deliver a spine crusher to even a reasonably grown calf.

*This image is copyright of its original author

The tiger grabbing the neck with his jaws & paws to snap it by twisting like that seems like a, at best, faint possibility.

Otherwise...
(08-03-2018, 09:09 AM)Shir Babr Wrote: " It broke the grazing rhino's neck, jumping in from a vantage point. Didn't pierce its hide much at that stage."
...sounds a bit too exaggerated for me to digest. Those necks can absorb the impact of knocking down other rhinos, ten times the weight of any tiger.

Posts #1,309 & #1,310 actually make sense, while @Pckts's #1,282 is a real jewel, what happens for both gaurs & rhinos.
"Everything not saved will be lost."

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Mexico Shir Babr Offline
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( This post was last modified: 08-04-2018, 05:53 PM by Shir Babr )

(08-04-2018, 05:03 PM)Rishi Wrote: Otherwise...
(08-03-2018, 09:09 AM)Shir Babr Wrote: " It broke the grazing rhino's neck, jumping in from a vantage point. Didn't pierce its hide much at that stage."
...sounds a bit too exaggerated for me to digest. Those necks can absorb the impact of knocking down other rhinos, ten times the weight of any tiger.

I don't think anybody actually believes it. As soon as the person stated that and refused to share a less ambiguous photo I lost all confidence of it being an actual predation incident on a healthy free moving rhino.
As for the hamstring technique, I haven't actually seen evidence of that; the gaur kills with evidence show a traditional neck bite.
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Nepal Jimmy Offline
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( This post was last modified: 08-04-2018, 08:10 PM by Jimmy )

(08-04-2018, 05:03 PM)Rishi Wrote:
(08-04-2018, 10:43 AM)Wolverine Wrote: With that T-rex neck snap you won the prize for best post of the year... !
(08-03-2018, 12:12 PM)Jimmy Wrote: Definetely it's hard to know exactly how the tiger did it :) In the end may not be as dramatic as those involving monsterous dinos^ like the tiger that made a gaur kill look too easy.

Alright, i'm getting a feeling that both of you missed what i was trying to say with the video.

I believe you already know how a rhino's neck is on the inside;

*This image is copyright of its original author
 
Clearly, even if he has long enough canines & adequate bite-force, a tiger's jaw-gape simply isn't wide enough to possibly do any damage to a rhino's spine... not in one go. He might take a chunk of flesh with a full powered bite, but he cannot deliver a spine crusher to even a reasonably grown calf.

*This image is copyright of its original author

The tiger grabbing the neck with his jaws & paws to snap it by twisting like that seems like a, at best, faint possibility.

Otherwise...
(08-03-2018, 09:09 AM)Shir Babr Wrote: " It broke the grazing rhino's neck, jumping in from a vantage point. Didn't pierce its hide much at that stage."
...sounds a bit too exaggerated for me to digest. Those necks can absorb the impact of knocking down other rhinos, ten times the weight of any tiger.

Posts #1,309 & #1,310 actually makes sense, while @Pckts's #1,282 is a real jewel, what happens for both gaurs & rhinos.

Thanks to the image you posted it looks convincing and does look quite impossible the tiger could grip on rhino's neck. yup, trust me i did not believed it either had it not been for very photo that showed the tiger was feasting on nape region rather than any other soft spot like the area around groin and the second thing is that, how could he had deliberately made a cheap stunt and write about it and then degrade his reputation, that seems to me quite bizarre. Why did he not to speak out the truth. Now as i am writing it, i think he may have missed something like initail injury that caused the rhino to collapse suddenly. it may have gone for days with it's injury but he only got to see the final event, ok it may have gone like this

the rhino had been wounded by tiger, probably hamstringing it days before and was weakening

*This image is copyright of its original author

the tiger hounded the weak rhino which was feeding underwater, the cameraman saw this event but was on different angle or rhino's legs were hidden underwater so he did not notice any hamstring wounds

*This image is copyright of its original author

the tiger launched an assult on the back, the rhino's legs gave up and it collapsed upon the impact like the cameraman had said-probably tiger did not break anything

*This image is copyright of its original author

then the initail wound was underwater since the scene took place on a lagoon, the tiger could not roll the rhino due to massive weight so it began to tear away the back -nape region which was seen on photo.

*This image is copyright of its original author
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India Rishi Offline
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( This post was last modified: 08-04-2018, 09:19 PM by Rishi )

(08-04-2018, 05:49 PM)Shir Babr Wrote: As for the hamstring technique, I haven't actually seen evidence of that; the gaur kills with evidence show a traditional neck bite.

That can be helped. Read the post #1,190 & #1,282. As it's used only on considerably larger specimens of animals with a dangerous "business ends" like gaurs, rhinos & elephants, you won't see it often. But veteran forest guards can tell you about it, whose experience aren't limited to occasional car rides along designated safari paths.

Watch this short clip from a famous hunting sequence. That's a classic hamstring & you'll see how much safer it is to use compared to the usual. Tiring, yes... but much, much safer & efficient. It seems next to impossible for the prey to shake off a feline latched to its behind.
Quote:



"Everything not saved will be lost."

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China Smilodon-Rex Offline
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(08-04-2018, 08:06 PM)Jimmy Wrote:
(08-04-2018, 05:03 PM)Rishi Wrote:
(08-04-2018, 10:43 AM)Wolverine Wrote: With that T-rex neck snap you won the prize for best post of the year... !
(08-03-2018, 12:12 PM)Jimmy Wrote: Definetely it's hard to know exactly how the tiger did it :) In the end may not be as dramatic as those involving monsterous dinos^ like the tiger that made a gaur kill look too easy.

Alright, i'm getting a feeling that both of you missed what i was trying to say with the video.

I believe you already know how a rhino's neck is on the inside;

*This image is copyright of its original author
 
Clearly, even if he has long enough canines & adequate bite-force, a tiger's jaw-gape simply isn't wide enough to possibly do any damage to a rhino's spine... not in one go. He might take a chunk of flesh with a full powered bite, but he cannot deliver a spine crusher to even a reasonably grown calf.

*This image is copyright of its original author

The tiger grabbing the neck with his jaws & paws to snap it by twisting like that seems like a, at best, faint possibility.

Otherwise...
(08-03-2018, 09:09 AM)Shir Babr Wrote: " It broke the grazing rhino's neck, jumping in from a vantage point. Didn't pierce its hide much at that stage."
...sounds a bit too exaggerated for me to digest. Those necks can absorb the impact of knocking down other rhinos, ten times the weight of any tiger.

Posts #1,309 & #1,310 actually makes sense, while @Pckts's #1,282 is a real jewel, what happens for both gaurs & rhinos.

Thanks to the image you posted it looks convincing and does look quite impossible the tiger could grip on rhino's neck. yup, trust me i did not believed it either had it not been for very photo that showed the tiger was feasting on nape region rather than any other soft spot like the area around groin and the second thing is that, how could he had deliberately made a cheap stunt and write about it and then degrade his reputation, that seems to me quite bizarre. Why did he not to speak out the truth. Now as i am writing it, i think he may have missed something like initail injury that caused the rhino to collapse suddenly. it may have gone for days with it's injury but he only got to see the final event, ok it may have gone like this

the rhino had been wounded by tiger, probably hamstringing it days before and was weakening

*This image is copyright of its original author

the tiger hounded the weak rhino which was feeding underwater, the cameraman saw this event but was on different angle or rhino's legs were hidden underwater so he did not notice any hamstring wounds

*This image is copyright of its original author

the tiger launched an assult on the back, the rhino's legs gave up and it collapsed upon the impact like the cameraman had said-probably tiger did not break anything

*This image is copyright of its original author

then the initail wound was underwater since the scene took place on a lagoon, the tiger could not roll the rhino due to massive weight so it began to tear away the back -nape region which was seen on photo.

*This image is copyright of its original author

Jimmy,could I copy your works?
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Mexico Shir Babr Offline
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(08-04-2018, 09:14 PM)Rishi Wrote:
(08-04-2018, 05:49 PM)Shir Babr Wrote: As for the hamstring technique, I haven't actually seen evidence of that; the gaur kills with evidence show a traditional neck bite.

That can be helped. Read the post #1,190 & #1,282. As it's used only on considerably larger specimens of animals with a dangerous "business ends" like gaurs, rhinos & elephants, you won't see it often. But veteran forest guards can tell you about it, whose experience aren't limited to occasional car rides along designated safari paths.

Watch this short clip from a famous hunting sequence. That's a classic hamstring & you'll see how much safer it is to use compared to the usual. Tiring, yes... but much, much safer & efficient. It seems next to impossible for the prey to shake off a feline latched to its behind.
Quote:




My bad Rishi! Of course I've seen the "hang to the rump and bite" technique. Is a lion's staple. But since the biting occurs around the base of the tail, my understanding of hamstringing was to bite closer to the calcaneus... thus my confusion. Thanks for clarifying.
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India sanjay Online
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Jimmy those images are awesome.. you have some very good skills, You should post them in drawing thread. Also, add your name as copyright.
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India Rishi Offline
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( This post was last modified: 08-06-2018, 01:11 PM by Rishi )

@Shir Babr just beside the tail where the hamstring adjoining muscle-group joins the hipbone. 

*This image is copyright of its original author

Here's that video from #1,190 again. You can clearly see where she has bitten to immobilise the gaur.
(03-04-2018, 10:41 AM)Apollo Wrote: Tiger feeding on a gaur alive....



"Everything not saved will be lost."

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Nepal Jimmy Offline
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(08-04-2018, 09:25 PM)Smilodon-Rex Wrote:
(08-04-2018, 08:06 PM)Jimmy Wrote:
(08-04-2018, 05:03 PM)Rishi Wrote:
(08-04-2018, 10:43 AM)Wolverine Wrote: With that T-rex neck snap you won the prize for best post of the year... !
(08-03-2018, 12:12 PM)Jimmy Wrote: Definetely it's hard to know exactly how the tiger did it :) In the end may not be as dramatic as those involving monsterous dinos^ like the tiger that made a gaur kill look too easy.

Alright, i'm getting a feeling that both of you missed what i was trying to say with the video.

I believe you already know how a rhino's neck is on the inside;

*This image is copyright of its original author
 
Clearly, even if he has long enough canines & adequate bite-force, a tiger's jaw-gape simply isn't wide enough to possibly do any damage to a rhino's spine... not in one go. He might take a chunk of flesh with a full powered bite, but he cannot deliver a spine crusher to even a reasonably grown calf.

*This image is copyright of its original author

The tiger grabbing the neck with his jaws & paws to snap it by twisting like that seems like a, at best, faint possibility.

Otherwise...
(08-03-2018, 09:09 AM)Shir Babr Wrote: " It broke the grazing rhino's neck, jumping in from a vantage point. Didn't pierce its hide much at that stage."
...sounds a bit too exaggerated for me to digest. Those necks can absorb the impact of knocking down other rhinos, ten times the weight of any tiger.

Posts #1,309 & #1,310 actually makes sense, while @Pckts's #1,282 is a real jewel, what happens for both gaurs & rhinos.

Thanks to the image you posted it looks convincing and does look quite impossible the tiger could grip on rhino's neck. yup, trust me i did not believed it either had it not been for very photo that showed the tiger was feasting on nape region rather than any other soft spot like the area around groin and the second thing is that, how could he had deliberately made a cheap stunt and write about it and then degrade his reputation, that seems to me quite bizarre. Why did he not to speak out the truth. Now as i am writing it, i think he may have missed something like initail injury that caused the rhino to collapse suddenly. it may have gone for days with it's injury but he only got to see the final event, ok it may have gone like this

the rhino had been wounded by tiger, probably hamstringing it days before and was weakening

*This image is copyright of its original author

the tiger hounded the weak rhino which was feeding underwater, the cameraman saw this event but was on different angle or rhino's legs were hidden underwater so he did not notice any hamstring wounds

*This image is copyright of its original author

the tiger launched an assult on the back, the rhino's legs gave up and it collapsed upon the impact like the cameraman had said-probably tiger did not break anything

*This image is copyright of its original author

then the initail wound was underwater since the scene took place on a lagoon, the tiger could not roll the rhino due to massive weight so it began to tear away the back -nape region which was seen on photo.

*This image is copyright of its original author

Jimmy,could I copy your works?
most certainly, and good luck with Four greater one horned rhinos that nepal will be providing to the peoples rep. of China!!!
(08-04-2018, 10:38 PM)sanjay Wrote: Jimmy those images are awesome.. you have some very good skills, You should post them in drawing thread. Also, add your name as copyright.

hahaha, Thank you @sanjay i am also part time artist, ok i will put them on another thread also, i feel there is no need for copyright there they're just minor sketches!!
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