Lions of Sabi Sands

[KM600]

(05-29-2024, 10:14 PM)NLAL11 Wrote:

(05-29-2024, 09:35 PM)T_Ferguson Wrote: Another angle of the "show me your love boy..."

Now I think about it, of thr two it's the Talamati male that's mated most recently, and in this area too. So maybe he's feeling more territorial than the BD male, who is fully nomadic at this point. I hope he doesn't get overconfident, especially with the PC males hanging around.

He’s spent half of his life running from males so I think he’s smart enough to avoid them. He was roaring with the Nkuhumas and the next day Kambula males showed up on the scene but he had already moved off after most likely hearing their response. Goes to show he’s aware of his surroundings and knows what risks he can take. I can only see him getting caught by the PCMs if they ambush him outta nowhere like they did Skorro Tumbela. Reply

[Ttimemarti]

Why do these large coalitions split some don’t but some do each group split in a different way and for a different reason but why do most… like the matimbas why did they split was it because nduna (their leader) went missing was he keeping them together? Reply

[NLAL11]

(05-29-2024, 11:05 PM)KM600 Wrote:

(05-29-2024, 10:14 PM)NLAL11 Wrote:

(05-29-2024, 09:35 PM)T_Ferguson Wrote: Another angle of the "show me your love boy..."

Now I think about it, of thr two it's the Talamati male that's mated most recently, and in this area too. So maybe he's feeling more territorial than the BD male, who is fully nomadic at this point. I hope he doesn't get overconfident, especially with the PC males hanging around.

He’s spent half of his life running from males so I think he’s smart enough to avoid them. He was roaring with the Nkuhumas and the next day Kambula males showed up on the scene but he had already moved off after most likely hearing their response. Goes to show he’s aware of his surroundings and knows what risks he can take. I can only see him getting caught by the PCMs if they ambush him outta nowhere like they did Skorro Tumbela.

Oh he's definitely got good survival instincts, but sometimes that all goes out the window when there are ladies involved. Reply

[Mapokser]

They do because it is hard to function with so many males and the competition is tough. Usually they have large territories so they can easily split between groups with stronger bonds. Reply

[Tr1x24]

(05-30-2024, 12:32 AM)Ttimemarti Wrote: Why do these large coalitions split some don’t but some do each group split in a different way and for a different reason but why do most… like the matimbas why did they split was it because nduna (their leader) went missing was he keeping them together?

Because lion coalitions function on dominance hierarchy.

And when you have a lot of males in it, competition is fierce, strongest males get more "goods", while weakest are left with scraps.

Then weaker ones "figure" out that they might have a lot more opportunities if they just leave or split. Or stronger ones to have even more, without their brothers bothering them.

Matimbas didnt split because of Ndunha, Ndunha split in his own way into Mluwati Comcession in 2012, was seen there thru 2013, when he disappeared.

As I said, for 6 Matimbas, there was not enough "goods" for all, so they split, bonds and ranks usually determinates who goes with who.

Obiviously, as animals, they dont think about the future, that they weakened themselves with that. Reply

[Ttimemarti]

Oooh all I ever heard was nduna left/ disappeared and after they the remaining 5 males split the coalition. So I guess the southern black dam males may have been the runts of the coalition the 4th northern black dam male is smaller than his brothers not saying males that are smaller or always the runts but that’s the way it seems but it could that be why he is always alone and the southern kambulas and southern avocas was it just they where ready and older than their brothers so they left them? Reply

[afortich]

Torchwood pride & Mantimahle coalition

Reply

[Duco Ndona]

Male lions arent all that altruistic. They dont fight for the sake of the coalition or brotherhood or anything like that.
If the group is to big, for the lower members it does not matter much if they are territorial and beaten around by their own or nomadic and beaten around by rival groups.

If the lower members feel they are much better off without the higher ones. They just as easily abandon or turn against the others. Reply

[sik94]

(05-30-2024, 01:46 AM)Tr1x24 Wrote: And when you have a lot of males in it, competition is fierce, strongest males get more "goods", while weakest are left with scraps.

Well that usually happens when they are sick or in a weakened state. Even the lowest ranked members aren't shy when there's food on the table if they are healthy ofcourse, and these dominance heirarchies aren't that rigid either so that some members will always get the shorter end of the stick. Add injuries and current condition to that and there are even more variables at play, I get your general point but it's a little oversimplifying it. 

(05-30-2024, 01:46 AM)Tr1x24 Wrote: Then weaker ones "figure" out that they might have a lot more opportunities if they just leave or split. Or stronger ones to have even more, without their brothers bothering them.

That would be true if it were always the weaker ones that choose to leave everytime and I don't think that's true at all. The weaker ones are usually too submissive to make a move like that, usually It's one of the more dominant males with usually good leadership qualities that choose to split and a couple others who were littermates or closer in age tag along. Mr. T and KT are the perfect example of this, and so were the Southern Matimbas. Mr. T and Hairybelly were born leaders while KT and Ginger were the ultimate right hands for them, KT was a littermate while Ginger and Hairybelly were always close. The Southern BDMs are definitely an interesting case, I think this is more of a Kambulas and maybe also the Northern and Southern Avocas situation. The 6 BDMs, Avocas, and the 6 Kambulas were never territorial as a 6 member coalition, they never had to deal with the complexities of fighting for resources within a territorial coalition that might lead to a split. I think the southern BDMs, Northern Avocas, and the Northern Kambulas were younger than the rest and also late bloomers(especially in the case of the southern BDMs and the Northern Kambulas). I think they were never truly bonded as a coalition and that's why the splits happened even before they were anywhere near being territorial. Reply

[Go131810]

(05-30-2024, 10:29 AM)sik94 Wrote:

(05-30-2024, 01:46 AM)Tr1x24 Wrote: And when you have a lot of males in it, competition is fierce, strongest males get more "goods", while weakest are left with scraps.

Well that usually happens when they are sick or in a weakened state. Even the lowest ranked members aren't shy when there's food on the table if they are healthy ofcourse, and these dominance heirarchies aren't that rigid either so that some members will always get the shorter end of the stick. Add injuries and current condition to that and there are even more variables at play, I get your general point but it's a little oversimplifying it. 

(05-30-2024, 01:46 AM)Tr1x24 Wrote: Then weaker ones "figure" out that they might have a lot more opportunities if they just leave or split. Or stronger ones to have even more, without their brothers bothering them.

That would be true if it were always the weaker ones that choose to leave everytime and I don't think that's true at all. The weaker ones are usually too submissive to make a move like that, usually It's one of the more dominant males with usually good leadership qualities that choose to split and a couple others who were littermates or closer in age tag along. Mr. T and KT are the perfect example of this, and so were the Southern Matimbas. Mr. T and Hairybelly were born leaders while KT and Ginger were the ultimate right hands for them, KT was a littermate while Ginger and Hairybelly were always close. The Southern BDMs are definitely an interesting case, I think this is more of a Kambulas and maybe also the Northern and Southern Avocas situation. The 6 BDMs, Avocas,  and the 6 Kambulas were never territorial as a 6 member coalition, they never had to deal with the complexities of fighting for resources within a territorial coalition that might lead to a split. I think the southern BDMs, Northern Avocas, and the Northern Kambulas were younger than the rest and also late bloomers(especially in the case of the southern BDMs and the Northern Kambulas). I think they were never truly bonded as a coalition and that's why the splits happened even before they were anywhere near being territorial.

Hi I would say they are just younger. The older brothers in a coalition are more likely stronger. Makulu was I think about 4 years older than Mr.T and Kinky Tail. Then their other brothers were a few months older almost a year older I think. I remember reading the Matimba male lions split, because they were eventually far apart from each other. I think the older Matimba would spend time with the Southern Matimbas and another Northern Matimba. I read in a comment before that the Southern Matimba male lions may have been the older brothers of the Northern Matimbas. Reply

[Tr1x24]

Original video of Talamati vs BDM:

Will be interesting to see what happens with Talamati in the north.

NK subs are still avoiding PCMs, so that plays in his hand as he can hang with them.

I guess his future here will be determined if PCMs will completly overtake NKs and the north, or just part of it.

In theory he could become territorial male in the north if PCMs dont fully commit and if Kambulas move and stay in Manyeleti, altough not sure how long would that last being surrounded by bigger coalition.

Such a shame he lost his brother, who was even more impressive and confident (although i somehow suspect that was his downfall in the south), on paper they would become formidable duo if work as unit. Reply

[adamstocks16]

Great to see Khanya building confidence and coming into his own. He needs to be careful though, all the other males currently in the area have two or more members (assuming the other Black Dam Male is still with us) and not take too many risks. On a side note, it’s quite sad to see the rapid decline of these two Black Dam Males. At the moment I just don’t see things improving for them with all the competition in the north. Reply

[BA0701]

(05-30-2024, 02:47 PM)Tr1x24 Wrote: Original video of Talamati vs BDM:

Will be interesting to see what happens with Talamati in the north.

NK subs are still avoiding PCMs, so that plays in his hand as he can hang with them.

I guess his future here will be determined if PCMs will completly overtake NKs and the north, or just part of it.

In theory he could become territorial male in the north if PCMs dont fully commit and if Kambulas move and stay in Manyeleti, altough not sure how long would that last being surrounded by bigger coalition.

Such a shame he lost his brother, who was even more impressive and confident (although i somehow suspect that was his downfall in the south), on paper they would become formidable duo if work as unit.

The commentary with this video, the comments of the OP, state that after this interaction, Khanya then went to be with the pride. This makes things even more confusing, for me anyhow. So, was he with the pride when the BDM approached, was he defending what he now see as his pride, was the BDM returning to what he believes is his pride, if so, doe he now see Khanya as being dominant over the Nkuhumas as well? So many questions on what happened here. Reply

[KM600]

(05-30-2024, 07:29 PM)BA0701 Wrote:

(05-30-2024, 02:47 PM)Tr1x24 Wrote: Original video of Talamati vs BDM:

Will be interesting to see what happens with Talamati in the north.

NK subs are still avoiding PCMs, so that plays in his hand as he can hang with them.

I guess his future here will be determined if PCMs will completly overtake NKs and the north, or just part of it.

In theory he could become territorial male in the north if PCMs dont fully commit and if Kambulas move and stay in Manyeleti, altough not sure how long would that last being surrounded by bigger coalition.

Such a shame he lost his brother, who was even more impressive and confident (although i somehow suspect that was his downfall in the south), on paper they would become formidable duo if work as unit.

The commentary with this video, the comments of the OP, state that after this interaction, Khanya then went to be with the pride. This makes things even more confusing, for me anyhow. So, was he with the pride when the BDM approached, was he defending what he now see as his pride, was the BDM returning to what he believes is his pride, if so, doe he now see Khanya as being dominant over the Nkuhumas as well? So many questions on what happened here.

From the video @Tr1x24 sent into Nkuhuma Pride thread, the caption mentions that the pride was moving off with Khanya who was having a face off with the BDM. He’s also spent a few days with the pride so he most likely encountered the BDM and split off from the Nkuhuma Pride to confront him.

I don’t believe Khanya sees the Nkuhumas as his pride, there’s a reason he’s only returned to majority of the pride while the PCMs are back in the West. Both BDMs have also encountered the PCMs after it was said they were being trailed by both the brothers when roaring in Chitwa, so I think both parties very much know who controls the North at this moment. Although, the PCMs have not fully taken over Nkuhuma Pride as of right now and I do think Khanya is testing the waters a lil. Reply

[adamstocks16]

Best thing Khanya could do is go further north into Manyeleti and try his luck with Mbiri Pride, they still don’t have any dominant males ever since the departure of Mandevu & Ncile. He may enjoy some short term success with Nkuhumas while the Plains Camp Males movements are still erratic but if they do decide to settle permanently in the north and/or the Kambula Males get their act together there will be no place for him there. Reply