Lions of Sabi Sands

[lionuk]

(06-05-2024, 10:03 AM)Go131810 Wrote:

(06-05-2024, 07:28 AM)Mapokser Wrote: This is why the Gijimas are my favorite coalition from Sabi Sands. They have never killed any cubs so far ( I think? Though of course this was by chance ) nor have they killed any adult or subadult lionesses, which is down to their personality.

They accepted the 2yo Southern subs and we thought it was because they were inexperienced, but no, it was part of their character as they also accepted/tolerated the Styx female subs, and now even saved one of them.

If more lions were like the Gijimas it'd be easier for the prides to raise cubs as they'd only need to raise them to independence/2yo, and the new males would accept them, but most don't accept 2yo subs and some like the PCM only accept females in estrus, anyone else can be potentially killed.

And the Gijimas are so tolerant while also being incredibly strong defending their territory, they are the perfect lions in terms of behavior that helps growing the local population, so I hope they spread their great genes everywhere and their future sons and grandsons are just like them, strong but tolerant.

Also, as a side note, although the Gijimas doomed one of the Ndhzengas, the Ndhzengas' legacy outside the Kambula and Ntsevu prides is thriving almost exclusively because the Gijimas are how they are. Ndhzengas abandoned their cubs as below 1,5yo to 2yo.

If the new males were like the PCM for instance, it's doubtful if the Ndhzengas would have any offspring alive besides the ones from the Kambula/Ntsevu prides.

Only issue here is that the Gijimas are literally "suffering" from success, as they have too many prides among a relatively small territory, especially for only 2 males, meaning their prides are in constant conflict and we've lost lionesses and cubs due to it.

A lot of young male lions when they are young would not hurt sub adults. The Orphen male lion cubs, other male lions came. The Othowa male lion. There is older male lions like the Matimba male lions when they came to the Othowa pride. The Plain camp male lions were around the young Nukhuma male lion. The Gijima male lions have not hurt young lionesses. Yes it is by chance they did not hurt the young lioness. The Ndhzenga male lions are a strong coalition. The Gijima male lions are just with a lot of lionesses. The Styxt pride reminds me a bit of the Kambula lionesses. The Styxt pride is of daughters from a Birmingham daughter, another lioness who was half sister to the Kambulas lionesses, and a relative to the older lionesses of the Mahangeni lionesses. Hopefully the Styxt pride can grow strong and they could keep their bond with the Birmingham Styxt lioness.

The Plains Camp males were never around the Nkuhuma young male. The young male was in a different group at the time. The PCMs don't tolerate any young lions and they would have certainly killed him if they saw him and other Nkuhuma young females born in 2021 if they didn't respond to the males' demands to mate Reply

[Go131810]

(06-05-2024, 09:34 AM)lionuk Wrote:

(06-05-2024, 08:06 AM)Ttimemarti Wrote: So who killed the 4 Styx males and 1 female I believe the Nkhulus killed at least 2

The Kambula pride is responsible for the two males, although those males did not die straight away, they sustained bad injuries which later proved to be fatal

The Nkhulas killed one and unknown male killed a female in Umkumbe

That is a sad story may they rest. Did the young male lions maybe were following the Ndhzenga male lions? Reply

[Go131810]

(06-05-2024, 10:11 AM)lionuk Wrote:

(06-05-2024, 10:03 AM)Go131810 Wrote:

(06-05-2024, 07:28 AM)Mapokser Wrote: This is why the Gijimas are my favorite coalition from Sabi Sands. They have never killed any cubs so far ( I think? Though of course this was by chance ) nor have they killed any adult or subadult lionesses, which is down to their personality.

They accepted the 2yo Southern subs and we thought it was because they were inexperienced, but no, it was part of their character as they also accepted/tolerated the Styx female subs, and now even saved one of them.

If more lions were like the Gijimas it'd be easier for the prides to raise cubs as they'd only need to raise them to independence/2yo, and the new males would accept them, but most don't accept 2yo subs and some like the PCM only accept females in estrus, anyone else can be potentially killed.

And the Gijimas are so tolerant while also being incredibly strong defending their territory, they are the perfect lions in terms of behavior that helps growing the local population, so I hope they spread their great genes everywhere and their future sons and grandsons are just like them, strong but tolerant.

Also, as a side note, although the Gijimas doomed one of the Ndhzengas, the Ndhzengas' legacy outside the Kambula and Ntsevu prides is thriving almost exclusively because the Gijimas are how they are. Ndhzengas abandoned their cubs as below 1,5yo to 2yo.

If the new males were like the PCM for instance, it's doubtful if the Ndhzengas would have any offspring alive besides the ones from the Kambula/Ntsevu prides.

Only issue here is that the Gijimas are literally "suffering" from success, as they have too many prides among a relatively small territory, especially for only 2 males, meaning their prides are in constant conflict and we've lost lionesses and cubs due to it.

A lot of young male lions when they are young would not hurt sub adults. The Orphen male lion cubs, other male lions came. The Othowa male lion. There is older male lions like the Matimba male lions when they came to the Othowa pride. The Plain camp male lions were around the young Nukhuma male lion. The Gijima male lions have not hurt young lionesses. Yes it is by chance they did not hurt the young lioness. The Ndhzenga male lions are a strong coalition. The Gijima male lions are just with a lot of lionesses. The Styxt pride reminds me a bit of the Kambula lionesses. The Styxt pride is of daughters from a Birmingham daughter, another lioness who was half sister to the Kambulas lionesses, and a relative to the older lionesses of the Mahangeni lionesses. Hopefully the Styxt pride can grow strong and they could keep their bond with the Birmingham Styxt lioness.

The Plains Camp males were never around the Nkuhuma young male. The young male was in a different group at the time. The PCMs don't tolerate any young lions and they would have certainly killed him if they saw him and other Nkuhuma young females born in 2021 if they didn't respond to the males' demands to mate

Hi I meant to say the Black Damn male lions. Hopefully both Black Damn male lions are ok. Yes the Plain Camp male lions; hopefully they can stay and spend more time in the West. I wonder how the Talamatie lioness and her two young sub adults are. Reply

[criollo2mil]

(06-05-2024, 06:48 AM)BA0701 Wrote:

(06-05-2024, 05:16 AM)criollo2mil Wrote: Since this involves lions from three separate threads, I’m posting this here :

Here’s a Pictorial Board of the events that transpired when 1/5 young Styx females was caught alone and beaten by Talamati/Msuthlu females.   The Gijimas became aware of the ruckus and the guest says they intervened to help the young female escape before it was too late


The 4 Msuthlu females



Gijimas are said to have kept them young luoness from further beating

Did they, by chance, post images of her injuries? This is really sad to see. They make it sound like she is for certain not going to survive this beating, but without seeing the severity of her injuries it is difficult to tell if this is accurate or not.

Buddy.   This time I unfortunately cannot bring the good news to save the day.    The female unfortunately did not make it.  She was found dead this morning Reply

[NLAL11]

(06-05-2024, 03:44 PM)criollo2mil Wrote:

(06-05-2024, 06:48 AM)BA0701 Wrote:

(06-05-2024, 05:16 AM)criollo2mil Wrote: Since this involves lions from three separate threads, I’m posting this here :

Here’s a Pictorial Board of the events that transpired when 1/5 young Styx females was caught alone and beaten by Talamati/Msuthlu females.   The Gijimas became aware of the ruckus and the guest says they intervened to help the young female escape before it was too late


The 4 Msuthlu females



Gijimas are said to have kept them young luoness from further beating

Did they, by chance, post images of her injuries? This is really sad to see. They make it sound like she is for certain not going to survive this beating, but without seeing the severity of her injuries it is difficult to tell if this is accurate or not.

Buddy.   This time I unfortunately cannot bring the good news to save the day.    The female unfortunately did not make it.  She was found dead this morning

This is devastating, but unfortunately not surprising at all. This is exactly why I wasn't thrilled about the possibility of the Styx ladies accepting the Gijimas as their pride males and settling in their territory, especially after the Msuthlu lionesses settled here. This was almost inevitable.

Hopefully the remaining Styx lionesses will realise the danger and move off somewhere else, maybe more to the east. Although the Kambulas do sometimes go quite far south, southern Mala Mala is generally empty of other lions. Reply

[KM600]

As mentioned by @Vengeous in the Gijima thread, it was also reported Gijimas had chased away the Charleston sons. May be possible they chased the 2 youngsters and then proceeded to put a beating on Tumbela all within the space of a few days. 

Reply

[BA0701]

(06-05-2024, 03:44 PM)criollo2mil Wrote:

(06-05-2024, 06:48 AM)BA0701 Wrote:

(06-05-2024, 05:16 AM)criollo2mil Wrote: Since this involves lions from three separate threads, I’m posting this here :

Here’s a Pictorial Board of the events that transpired when 1/5 young Styx females was caught alone and beaten by Talamati/Msuthlu females.   The Gijimas became aware of the ruckus and the guest says they intervened to help the young female escape before it was too late


The 4 Msuthlu females



Gijimas are said to have kept them young luoness from further beating

Did they, by chance, post images of her injuries? This is really sad to see. They make it sound like she is for certain not going to survive this beating, but without seeing the severity of her injuries it is difficult to tell if this is accurate or not.

Buddy.   This time I unfortunately cannot bring the good news to save the day.    The female unfortunately did not make it.  She was found dead this morning

Man, this sucks, the poor Styx Pride just cannot catch a break. They were doing so well under the Nwas, as soon as they left they have been dropping left and right. Reply

[BA0701]

(06-05-2024, 06:26 PM)KM600 Wrote: As mentioned by @Vengeous in the Gijima thread, it was also reported Gijimas had chased away the Charleston sons. May be possible they chased the 2 youngsters and then proceeded to put a beating on Tumbela all within the space of a few days. 

This really sucks too, man. One of my favorite lions, for all he's been through, and it just continues. Those Gijimas are rough, just as rough, if not more so, than the PCM and the Nwas. He is in such a terrible place for a lone male, or even a new coalition. Reply

[KM600]

(06-05-2024, 06:37 PM)BA0701 Wrote:

(06-05-2024, 06:26 PM)KM600 Wrote: As mentioned by @Vengeous in the Gijima thread, it was also reported Gijimas had chased away the Charleston sons. May be possible they chased the 2 youngsters and then proceeded to put a beating on Tumbela all within the space of a few days. 

This really sucks too, man. One of my favorite lions, for all he's been through, and it just continues. Those Gijimas are rough, just as rough, if not more so, than the PCM and the Nwas. He is in such a terrible place for a lone male, or even a new coalition.

PCMs still in the West doesn’t help him either, but as the writing in the video said, atleast he’s eating and Nkuhuma is within the area too. Nkuhuma was seen feeding on 2 buffalos so safe to say he wasn’t heavily involved in the fight, or at all really. Not that it changes much, but I do hope he didn’t leave Tumbela to take a beating and instead wasn’t in the area or whatever. Reply

[BA0701]

(06-05-2024, 06:44 PM)KM600 Wrote:

(06-05-2024, 06:37 PM)BA0701 Wrote:

(06-05-2024, 06:26 PM)KM600 Wrote: As mentioned by @Vengeous in the Gijima thread, it was also reported Gijimas had chased away the Charleston sons. May be possible they chased the 2 youngsters and then proceeded to put a beating on Tumbela all within the space of a few days. 

This really sucks too, man. One of my favorite lions, for all he's been through, and it just continues. Those Gijimas are rough, just as rough, if not more so, than the PCM and the Nwas. He is in such a terrible place for a lone male, or even a new coalition.

I do hope he didn’t leave Tumbela to take a beating

This is what I have been concerned about since they paired up, they never had a chance to get really tight and work together well, they were still new at hanging with one another. Reply

[Mapokser]

Damn I was confident thr Styx sub would survive since she walked a decent distance.

@Go131810 Orpen cubs weren't killed because the Tintswalo males were sons/nephews of the mother and still had a strong connection to the Mbiri pride so they saw the cubs as members of their pride.

Othawa male was very very young, not even 4yo and he was up against 5 lionesses so he couldn't antagonize them.

Matimbas were half dead old nomads when they arrived in the west so it was in their interest to not antagonize the females, burn energy hunting cubs and instead were just enjoying the meals the females were giving them. They also could mate with the young Othawa female, all led to them sparing the cubs.

Gijimas had no such reasons to spare the Styx subs. Reply

[afortich]

So sad, RIP. 
At least Gijimas didn't finish her and probably intervened to stop the beating. Reply

[DE_66]

(06-04-2024, 04:02 AM)Slayerd Wrote: Tinyo was never seen with the Tsalala lioness prior to an encounter that took place just before she was attacked by the Kambula. Nhenha was the only Birmingham seen with her. Nhenha had mated with her in 2017 in the north and then again in 2018 in western parts of Londolozi. There is even a Londolozi blog on their encounter. He was also the only male who would visit her and patrol the section of the river she would frequent and he would do it by himself.  Nhenha is definitely the father of the remaining Tsalala lioness. She also resembles him.

The clues presented are not enough to prove that "Nhenha is definitely the father." Nothing at all wrong with speculation, but it's misguided to state something as fact when there are so many unknowns.  Instead of "definitely" such statements should be qualified with "in my opinion," "I think," "there's a good chance," etc.  

I'm not trying to start an argument, it's just that obviously a lot of people come to this site seeking knowledge on lion dynamics.  And there's too much speculation presented as fact, as well as history being rewritten. Reply

[T_Ferguson]

I didn't put this in Nkhuma because it's a larger update.  I haven't seen anything on the Kambula's recently, I wonder where they are now.  Also would like to see an update on Khanya, since the Black Dam has left Sabi.

We knew some bad things were going to happen, and well.  We likely lost one of the BDM's, the Kambula's are... well... who knows, a Styx girl is gone, Tumbella is in bad shape, and the Nomad master NK is just Nomading.

Reply

[KM600]

(06-06-2024, 05:29 PM)T_Ferguson Wrote: I didn't put this in Nkhuma because it's a larger update.  I haven't seen anything on the Kambula's recently, I wonder where they are now.  Also would like to see an update on Khanya, since the Black Dam has left Sabi.

We knew some bad things were going to happen, and well.  We likely lost one of the BDM's, the Kambula's are... well... who knows, a Styx girl is gone, Tumbella is in bad shape, and the Nomad master NK is just Nomading.

Kambula males were last spotted near Torchwood / Nkorho a few days ago. I’m baffled at how Nkuhuma females seem to get this young male atleast temporarily accepted by the surrounding males that visit them. I know his lack of mane prolly helps but the PCMs especially are very hostile towards subadults no matter the gender. Reply