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Lions of Sabi Sands

United States Fredymrt Offline
Senior Member
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MalaMala Game Reserve - MALAMALA TODAY: July 25 & 26th. 

The Styx pride of lions has been viewed on MalaMala for close on 4 decades. The last 2 years weren’t easy with several coalitions competing for dominance in the area while drought-induced mange killed off 3 litters. In fact, the youngest lioness (now a mother herself) was a member of the last litter to be successfully raised to independence! The pride currently comprises of 11 individuals, 3 lionesses and 8 cubs fathered by the Gowrie male coalition. These males have brought stability to the pride and although their attentions have been squarely focused on the Kambula pride, their presence has been enough to keep other males at bay. Mange is still present in the pride but the lions appear to be on the road to recovery. The Styx pride has already stood the test of time and we’re optimistic that they’ll keep on standing for years to come. They were viewed on both of the days in question- first with a giraffe kill north of Campbell Koppies and then at Mlowathi Dam. Other lions: All 6 Kambula lionesses and 3 of the Gowrie males were seen yesterday in 4 separate sightings. 4 of lionesses and a male were hunting buffalo close to MalaMala Camp. A second male was west of Sable Camp. The 3rd male was mating with the 5th lionesses south of Maxim’s Lookout and the 6th lioness was viewed moving towards her den in same area.
*This image is copyright of its original author
Photo of a cub from the Styx pride by ranger Liam Henderson
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United States Fredymrt Offline
Senior Member
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Credits to Londolozi
Posted by Pete Thorpe July 26, 2018

Tsalala Lioness is Alive and Well



The fate of the remaining Tsalala lioness has been one of the biggest concerns on everybody’s minds since the legendary sisters, the Tailed and Tailess lionesses diedin February and June of this year respectively. The legacy of the Tsalala pride rests squarely on the remaining female’s shoulders. Her three brothers, the Tsalala males, made a brief appearance on Londolozi a few months ago but have been continuing their nomadic lifestyle, dodging older and more dominant male lions as they go.


*This image is copyright of its original author

The lioness stares forward at two hyena sleeping in her path.



As a single lioness, the female has had to adapt to a solitary lifestyle, which could pose a challenge for an animal that has grown up as part of a pride. She is not used to having to make decisions by herself, particularly in terms of hunting where she would normally have relied heavily on the experience of the Tailess lioness. As a result, we have seen her walking almost the exact route in the heart of Londolozi where she once walked with the rest of her pride. Could she still be looking for the Tailess female? Or possibly for a potential mate? She has been heard calling on several nights opposite the Londolozi camps.



*This image is copyright of its original author


Walking through a clearing opposite the Londolozi camps on a route that she has been seen using several times.



*This image is copyright of its original author

I watched her stumble across two sleeping hyena while she was walking along the Sand River. She managed to get to within three metres of one of them before they noticed she was there and bolted. She searched the whole area, hoping for any scraps of meat that may have drawn the hyena to the area.


What we do know is that she has been looking hungry, and was walking around in broad daylight looking for any potential food or hunting opportunities . I saw her twice within a week where she was looking up trees for any old leopard kills and in thickets for any small prey to feed on,  while walking through the middle of the day.



*This image is copyright of its original author


On this particular day, the lioness was looking for any potential prey or food. She was seen gazing up into trees, potentially hoping to find an old leopard kill that from which she could scavenge to satisfy her hunger. One can see the indent in her stomach where the belly meets the hind leg, a clear indication of her hunger.


This all changed this last week though.



*This image is copyright of its original author


She stares back toward the herd of wildebeest that was alarming at her as she catches her breath, having just suffocated a wildebeest cow.


What first appeared to be a cloud of dust at a distance, soon proved to be a herd of wildebeest staring at where one of their herd had just been ambushed by the lioness. She had been waiting in the middle of a bush on the edge of a waterhole that is frequently visited by herds of impala and wildebeest throughout the day. We could see where a branch from the bush had been ripped off and thrown into the clearing as the lioness had burst out into the herd, bringing down an adult cow as it approached the waterhole. We arrived as the wildebeest took its last breaths. While it is always tough to witness a situation like this, it was fantastic to see the lone lioness able to make a substantial kill like this, all alone.


*This image is copyright of its original author


A female leopard came darting through the bush to investigate what the commotion was and why the wildebeest were alarming. She didn’t hang around when she saw the lioness, and quickly ran into the thicket out of view. An exciting, unexpected encounter!


*This image is copyright of its original author

After having dragged the wildebeest under the cover of a nearby tree, she looked up to check that nothing else was around that could potentially threaten to steal the kill from her. By hiding the kill under the thicket, the view from above for vultures would be obscured. This would allow for her to feed for longer without interruption as vultures would quickly draw the attention of hyena, that could potentially group together and chase her off the kill.


The kill was made at noon on an overcast day. Luckily for the lioness, she was able to feed throughout the afternoon and into the night. The next morning, a few hyena were found in the area. From assessing the tracks at the scene, it appeared that a group of hyena came together overnight and chased her off the kill, finishing whatever was left. She has been since then looking healthy, still wondering large distances by herself, particularly in the northern parts of Londolozi.

Her mother and aunt were renowned for being prolific daytime hunters. If this last Tsalala lioness continues where they left off, the local herbivore population will have to be supremely wary around the clock.

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United States swtlei4u Offline
Member
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(07-29-2018, 02:14 AM)Fredymrt Wrote: Credits to Londolozi
Posted by Pete Thorpe July 26, 2018

Tsalala Lioness is Alive and Well



The fate of the remaining Tsalala lioness has been one of the biggest concerns on everybody’s minds since the legendary sisters, the Tailed and Tailess lionesses diedin February and June of this year respectively. The legacy of the Tsalala pride rests squarely on the remaining female’s shoulders. Her three brothers, the Tsalala males, made a brief appearance on Londolozi a few months ago but have been continuing their nomadic lifestyle, dodging older and more dominant male lions as they go.


*This image is copyright of its original author

The lioness stares forward at two hyena sleeping in her path.



As a single lioness, the female has had to adapt to a solitary lifestyle, which could pose a challenge for an animal that has grown up as part of a pride. She is not used to having to make decisions by herself, particularly in terms of hunting where she would normally have relied heavily on the experience of the Tailess lioness. As a result, we have seen her walking almost the exact route in the heart of Londolozi where she once walked with the rest of her pride. Could she still be looking for the Tailess female? Or possibly for a potential mate? She has been heard calling on several nights opposite the Londolozi camps.



*This image is copyright of its original author


Walking through a clearing opposite the Londolozi camps on a route that she has been seen using several times.



*This image is copyright of its original author

I watched her stumble across two sleeping hyena while she was walking along the Sand River. She managed to get to within three metres of one of them before they noticed she was there and bolted. She searched the whole area, hoping for any scraps of meat that may have drawn the hyena to the area.


What we do know is that she has been looking hungry, and was walking around in broad daylight looking for any potential food or hunting opportunities . I saw her twice within a week where she was looking up trees for any old leopard kills and in thickets for any small prey to feed on,  while walking through the middle of the day.



*This image is copyright of its original author


On this particular day, the lioness was looking for any potential prey or food. She was seen gazing up into trees, potentially hoping to find an old leopard kill that from which she could scavenge to satisfy her hunger. One can see the indent in her stomach where the belly meets the hind leg, a clear indication of her hunger.


This all changed this last week though.



*This image is copyright of its original author


She stares back toward the herd of wildebeest that was alarming at her as she catches her breath, having just suffocated a wildebeest cow.


What first appeared to be a cloud of dust at a distance, soon proved to be a herd of wildebeest staring at where one of their herd had just been ambushed by the lioness. She had been waiting in the middle of a bush on the edge of a waterhole that is frequently visited by herds of impala and wildebeest throughout the day. We could see where a branch from the bush had been ripped off and thrown into the clearing as the lioness had burst out into the herd, bringing down an adult cow as it approached the waterhole. We arrived as the wildebeest took its last breaths. While it is always tough to witness a situation like this, it was fantastic to see the lone lioness able to make a substantial kill like this, all alone.


*This image is copyright of its original author


A female leopard came darting through the bush to investigate what the commotion was and why the wildebeest were alarming. She didn’t hang around when she saw the lioness, and quickly ran into the thicket out of view. An exciting, unexpected encounter!


*This image is copyright of its original author

After having dragged the wildebeest under the cover of a nearby tree, she looked up to check that nothing else was around that could potentially threaten to steal the kill from her. By hiding the kill under the thicket, the view from above for vultures would be obscured. This would allow for her to feed for longer without interruption as vultures would quickly draw the attention of hyena, that could potentially group together and chase her off the kill.


The kill was made at noon on an overcast day. Luckily for the lioness, she was able to feed throughout the afternoon and into the night. The next morning, a few hyena were found in the area. From assessing the tracks at the scene, it appeared that a group of hyena came together overnight and chased her off the kill, finishing whatever was left. She has been since then looking healthy, still wondering large distances by herself, particularly in the northern parts of Londolozi.

Her mother and aunt were renowned for being prolific daytime hunters. If this last Tsalala lioness continues where they left off, the local herbivore population will have to be supremely wary around the clock.


does anyone or camps that knew what happened to the 2011 tsalala lioness who was with the tailed lioness? anyone?????
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United States vinodkumarn Offline
Vinod Lion Enthusiast
*****

(08-02-2018, 09:33 AM)swtlei4u Wrote:
(07-29-2018, 02:14 AM)Fredymrt Wrote: Credits to Londolozi
Posted by Pete Thorpe July 26, 2018

Tsalala Lioness is Alive and Well



The fate of the remaining Tsalala lioness has been one of the biggest concerns on everybody’s minds since the legendary sisters, the Tailed and Tailess lionesses diedin February and June of this year respectively. The legacy of the Tsalala pride rests squarely on the remaining female’s shoulders. Her three brothers, the Tsalala males, made a brief appearance on Londolozi a few months ago but have been continuing their nomadic lifestyle, dodging older and more dominant male lions as they go.


*This image is copyright of its original author

The lioness stares forward at two hyena sleeping in her path.



As a single lioness, the female has had to adapt to a solitary lifestyle, which could pose a challenge for an animal that has grown up as part of a pride. She is not used to having to make decisions by herself, particularly in terms of hunting where she would normally have relied heavily on the experience of the Tailess lioness. As a result, we have seen her walking almost the exact route in the heart of Londolozi where she once walked with the rest of her pride. Could she still be looking for the Tailess female? Or possibly for a potential mate? She has been heard calling on several nights opposite the Londolozi camps.



*This image is copyright of its original author


Walking through a clearing opposite the Londolozi camps on a route that she has been seen using several times.



*This image is copyright of its original author

I watched her stumble across two sleeping hyena while she was walking along the Sand River. She managed to get to within three metres of one of them before they noticed she was there and bolted. She searched the whole area, hoping for any scraps of meat that may have drawn the hyena to the area.


What we do know is that she has been looking hungry, and was walking around in broad daylight looking for any potential food or hunting opportunities . I saw her twice within a week where she was looking up trees for any old leopard kills and in thickets for any small prey to feed on,  while walking through the middle of the day.



*This image is copyright of its original author


On this particular day, the lioness was looking for any potential prey or food. She was seen gazing up into trees, potentially hoping to find an old leopard kill that from which she could scavenge to satisfy her hunger. One can see the indent in her stomach where the belly meets the hind leg, a clear indication of her hunger.


This all changed this last week though.



*This image is copyright of its original author


She stares back toward the herd of wildebeest that was alarming at her as she catches her breath, having just suffocated a wildebeest cow.


What first appeared to be a cloud of dust at a distance, soon proved to be a herd of wildebeest staring at where one of their herd had just been ambushed by the lioness. She had been waiting in the middle of a bush on the edge of a waterhole that is frequently visited by herds of impala and wildebeest throughout the day. We could see where a branch from the bush had been ripped off and thrown into the clearing as the lioness had burst out into the herd, bringing down an adult cow as it approached the waterhole. We arrived as the wildebeest took its last breaths. While it is always tough to witness a situation like this, it was fantastic to see the lone lioness able to make a substantial kill like this, all alone.


*This image is copyright of its original author


A female leopard came darting through the bush to investigate what the commotion was and why the wildebeest were alarming. She didn’t hang around when she saw the lioness, and quickly ran into the thicket out of view. An exciting, unexpected encounter!


*This image is copyright of its original author

After having dragged the wildebeest under the cover of a nearby tree, she looked up to check that nothing else was around that could potentially threaten to steal the kill from her. By hiding the kill under the thicket, the view from above for vultures would be obscured. This would allow for her to feed for longer without interruption as vultures would quickly draw the attention of hyena, that could potentially group together and chase her off the kill.


The kill was made at noon on an overcast day. Luckily for the lioness, she was able to feed throughout the afternoon and into the night. The next morning, a few hyena were found in the area. From assessing the tracks at the scene, it appeared that a group of hyena came together overnight and chased her off the kill, finishing whatever was left. She has been since then looking healthy, still wondering large distances by herself, particularly in the northern parts of Londolozi.

Her mother and aunt were renowned for being prolific daytime hunters. If this last Tsalala lioness continues where they left off, the local herbivore population will have to be supremely wary around the clock.


does anyone or camps that knew what happened to the 2011 tsalala lioness who was with the tailed lioness? anyone?????

Vanished after alteration with Kambulas... Its during that time Tailed Lioness and 2011 Lioness got separated as well.
Then the whereabouts of 2011 Lioness is unknown..
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United States Peteporker Offline
Member
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Kirkman's Kamp

The Avoca Males are back!

After a lengthy absence, these lions made a return to Kirkman’s after having spent the bulk of their time in what we assume to be the Kruger. Their roaring could be heard throughout the north eastern parts of our concession, aptly announcing their return.


*This image is copyright of its original author

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jordi6927 Offline
Member
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(08-03-2018, 04:05 AM)Peteporker Wrote: Kirkman's Kamp

The Avoca Males are back!

After a lengthy absence, these lions made a return to Kirkman’s after having spent the bulk of their time in what we assume to be the Kruger. Their roaring could be heard throughout the north eastern parts of our concession, aptly announcing their return.


*This image is copyright of its original author


I sure wish they had one more brother in their coalition.
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United States Peteporker Offline
Member
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(08-03-2018, 05:51 AM)jordi6927 Wrote:
(08-03-2018, 04:05 AM)Peteporker Wrote: Kirkman's Kamp

The Avoca Males are back!

After a lengthy absence, these lions made a return to Kirkman’s after having spent the bulk of their time in what we assume to be the Kruger. Their roaring could be heard throughout the north eastern parts of our concession, aptly announcing their return.


*This image is copyright of its original author


I sure wish they had one more brother in their coalition.

Agree. Their younger brothers to the north seem to be doing really well for themselves as a 3 member coalition. They control the buffleshoek area are mating with the Talamati pride. They will complete the take over of that pride in a few months when cubs are born. They gave the matimba hair belly and scorro a really good beating and have fought with the Bboys. Also, in the fight with the Bboys, I personally think that they came out on top as they are still venturing into the Djuma area in nothern sabi sands with the Bboys not wanting to defend that territory after they fought.  They are still very young and not even in their prime so in a few years they can easily take over many prides in the Manyenleti (Mbiri/Nahru, etc. as the Avoca/Giraffe males are getting old and/or they can take over prides in the northern sabi sands that the Bboys abandoned.  

Unfortunately, the southern Avocas only seem to have the eyrefield pride (2 lioness) that they've mated for a long time but still no cubs. Lion Sands reported that one of the Avoca was limping when they returned to sabi sands from the KNP possible due to the encounter with the charleston males. There's a video of this male in their facebook page that I can't seem to insert here.
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United States Matimbalani Offline
Regular Member
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(08-03-2018, 09:51 PM)Peteporker Wrote:
(08-03-2018, 05:51 AM)jordi6927 Wrote:
(08-03-2018, 04:05 AM)Peteporker Wrote: Kirkman's Kamp

The Avoca Males are back!

After a lengthy absence, these lions made a return to Kirkman’s after having spent the bulk of their time in what we assume to be the Kruger. Their roaring could be heard throughout the north eastern parts of our concession, aptly announcing their return.


*This image is copyright of its original author


I sure wish they had one more brother in their coalition.

Agree. Their younger brothers to the north seem to be doing really well for themselves as a 3 member coalition. They control the buffleshoek area are mating with the Talamati pride. They will complete the take over of that pride in a few months when cubs are born. They gave the matimba hair belly and scorro a really good beating and have fought with the Bboys. Also, in the fight with the Bboys, I personally think that they came out on top as they are still venturing into the Djuma area in nothern sabi sands with the Bboys not wanting to defend that territory after they fought.  They are still very young and not even in their prime so in a few years they can easily take over many prides in the Manyenleti (Mbiri/Nahru, etc. as the Avoca/Giraffe males are getting old and/or they can take over prides in the northern sabi sands that the Bboys abandoned.  

Unfortunately, the southern Avocas only seem to have the eyrefield pride (2 lioness) that they've mated for a long time but still no cubs. Lion Sands reported that one of the Avoca was limping when they returned to sabi sands from the KNP possible due to the encounter with the charleston males. There's a video of this male in their facebook page that I can't seem to insert here.
I think both sets of brothers just need some time to mature. If they run into a coalition in their prime they probably will come out with the shorter end of the stick. If I recall correctly one of the Northern Avocas was separated from his brothers after the encounter with the B-Boys and that would be unlikely unless they had to run. 

They can handle lone lions pretty well. The northern brothers fought Hairy Belly while Ginger was limping at the time and couldn't keep up. The Southern Avocas chased the healthy Matshapiri around for a while too. In general, I think the Southern Avocas are in a much more dangerous neighborhood than the northern boys with Charleston and Mantis popping up in Kirkman's camp. The north is a vacuum and it would get interesting if a dominant coalition popped out of Kruger and moved there.
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United States Peteporker Offline
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(08-03-2018, 11:05 PM)Matimbalani Wrote:
(08-03-2018, 09:51 PM)Peteporker Wrote:
(08-03-2018, 05:51 AM)jordi6927 Wrote:
(08-03-2018, 04:05 AM)Peteporker Wrote: Kirkman's Kamp

The Avoca Males are back!

After a lengthy absence, these lions made a return to Kirkman’s after having spent the bulk of their time in what we assume to be the Kruger. Their roaring could be heard throughout the north eastern parts of our concession, aptly announcing their return.


*This image is copyright of its original author


I sure wish they had one more brother in their coalition.

Agree. Their younger brothers to the north seem to be doing really well for themselves as a 3 member coalition. They control the buffleshoek area are mating with the Talamati pride. They will complete the take over of that pride in a few months when cubs are born. They gave the matimba hair belly and scorro a really good beating and have fought with the Bboys. Also, in the fight with the Bboys, I personally think that they came out on top as they are still venturing into the Djuma area in nothern sabi sands with the Bboys not wanting to defend that territory after they fought.  They are still very young and not even in their prime so in a few years they can easily take over many prides in the Manyenleti (Mbiri/Nahru, etc. as the Avoca/Giraffe males are getting old and/or they can take over prides in the northern sabi sands that the Bboys abandoned.  

Unfortunately, the southern Avocas only seem to have the eyrefield pride (2 lioness) that they've mated for a long time but still no cubs. Lion Sands reported that one of the Avoca was limping when they returned to sabi sands from the KNP possible due to the encounter with the charleston males. There's a video of this male in their facebook page that I can't seem to insert here.
I think both sets of brothers just need some time to mature. If they run into a coalition in their prime they probably will come out with the shorter end of the stick. If I recall correctly one of the Northern Avocas was separated from his brothers after the encounter with the B-Boys and that would be unlikely unless they had to run. 

They can handle lone lions pretty well. The northern brothers fought Hairy Belly while Ginger was limping at the time and couldn't keep up. The Southern Avocas chased the healthy Matshapiri around for a while too. In general, I think the Southern Avocas are in a much more dangerous neighborhood than the northern boys with Charleston and Mantis popping up in Kirkman's camp. The north is a vacuum and it would get interesting if a dominant coalition popped out of Kruger and moved there.

I agree with you. Encounters with a coalition in their prime will likely not end up well for these boys as they are only around 5 years old. Also, its true that one of the northern boy got separated in the fight with the Bboys which indicate that they had to run instead of holding their ground. However, the fact that they are still venturing back to Djuma with uncontested roars will only increase their growing confidence on taking on mature males in their prime. The Bboys may have abandoned the north for mating opportunities and not defeat, but by not returning to stake their claim, I think it became a psychological victory for the northern avocas even though they were physically beaten up.
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Michael Offline
Regular Member
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(08-03-2018, 11:52 PM)Peteporker Wrote:
(08-03-2018, 11:05 PM)Matimbalani Wrote:
(08-03-2018, 09:51 PM)Peteporker Wrote:
(08-03-2018, 05:51 AM)jordi6927 Wrote:
(08-03-2018, 04:05 AM)Peteporker Wrote: Kirkman's Kamp

The Avoca Males are back!

After a lengthy absence, these lions made a return to Kirkman’s after having spent the bulk of their time in what we assume to be the Kruger. Their roaring could be heard throughout the north eastern parts of our concession, aptly announcing their return.


*This image is copyright of its original author


I sure wish they had one more brother in their coalition.

Agree. Their younger brothers to the north seem to be doing really well for themselves as a 3 member coalition. They control the buffleshoek area are mating with the Talamati pride. They will complete the take over of that pride in a few months when cubs are born. They gave the matimba hair belly and scorro a really good beating and have fought with the Bboys. Also, in the fight with the Bboys, I personally think that they came out on top as they are still venturing into the Djuma area in nothern sabi sands with the Bboys not wanting to defend that territory after they fought.  They are still very young and not even in their prime so in a few years they can easily take over many prides in the Manyenleti (Mbiri/Nahru, etc. as the Avoca/Giraffe males are getting old and/or they can take over prides in the northern sabi sands that the Bboys abandoned.  

Unfortunately, the southern Avocas only seem to have the eyrefield pride (2 lioness) that they've mated for a long time but still no cubs. Lion Sands reported that one of the Avoca was limping when they returned to sabi sands from the KNP possible due to the encounter with the charleston males. There's a video of this male in their facebook page that I can't seem to insert here.
I think both sets of brothers just need some time to mature. If they run into a coalition in their prime they probably will come out with the shorter end of the stick. If I recall correctly one of the Northern Avocas was separated from his brothers after the encounter with the B-Boys and that would be unlikely unless they had to run. 

They can handle lone lions pretty well. The northern brothers fought Hairy Belly while Ginger was limping at the time and couldn't keep up. The Southern Avocas chased the healthy Matshapiri around for a while too. In general, I think the Southern Avocas are in a much more dangerous neighborhood than the northern boys with Charleston and Mantis popping up in Kirkman's camp. The north is a vacuum and it would get interesting if a dominant coalition popped out of Kruger and moved there.

I agree with you. Encounters with a coalition in their prime will likely not end up well for these boys as they are only around 5 years old. Also, its true that one of the northern boy got separated in the fight with the Bboys which indicate that they had to run instead of holding their ground. However, the fact that they are still venturing back to Djuma with uncontested roars will only increase their growing confidence on taking on mature males in their prime. The Bboys may have abandoned the north for mating opportunities and not defeat, but by not returning to stake their claim, I think it became a psychological victory for the northern avocas even though they were physically beaten up.
You are trying really hard to paint a picture of the Avocas being the winners of that confrontation, they weren't one of them got separated and despite the BB's not being seen up North for more than a month they still haven't ventured further into Djuma since the confrontation.

They were seen deep into Djuma several times prior to the fight and only once after the confrontation and it was in the Northern reaches of Djuma what does that tell you ?

If they won that confrontation they would probably be a lot more brazen than what they have been.
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United States Peteporker Offline
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(08-04-2018, 02:02 AM)Michael Wrote:
(08-03-2018, 11:52 PM)Peteporker Wrote:
(08-03-2018, 11:05 PM)Matimbalani Wrote:
(08-03-2018, 09:51 PM)Peteporker Wrote:
(08-03-2018, 05:51 AM)jordi6927 Wrote:
(08-03-2018, 04:05 AM)Peteporker Wrote: Kirkman's Kamp

The Avoca Males are back!

After a lengthy absence, these lions made a return to Kirkman’s after having spent the bulk of their time in what we assume to be the Kruger. Their roaring could be heard throughout the north eastern parts of our concession, aptly announcing their return.


*This image is copyright of its original author


I sure wish they had one more brother in their coalition.

Agree. Their younger brothers to the north seem to be doing really well for themselves as a 3 member coalition. They control the buffleshoek area are mating with the Talamati pride. They will complete the take over of that pride in a few months when cubs are born. They gave the matimba hair belly and scorro a really good beating and have fought with the Bboys. Also, in the fight with the Bboys, I personally think that they came out on top as they are still venturing into the Djuma area in nothern sabi sands with the Bboys not wanting to defend that territory after they fought.  They are still very young and not even in their prime so in a few years they can easily take over many prides in the Manyenleti (Mbiri/Nahru, etc. as the Avoca/Giraffe males are getting old and/or they can take over prides in the northern sabi sands that the Bboys abandoned.  

Unfortunately, the southern Avocas only seem to have the eyrefield pride (2 lioness) that they've mated for a long time but still no cubs. Lion Sands reported that one of the Avoca was limping when they returned to sabi sands from the KNP possible due to the encounter with the charleston males. There's a video of this male in their facebook page that I can't seem to insert here.
I think both sets of brothers just need some time to mature. If they run into a coalition in their prime they probably will come out with the shorter end of the stick. If I recall correctly one of the Northern Avocas was separated from his brothers after the encounter with the B-Boys and that would be unlikely unless they had to run. 

They can handle lone lions pretty well. The northern brothers fought Hairy Belly while Ginger was limping at the time and couldn't keep up. The Southern Avocas chased the healthy Matshapiri around for a while too. In general, I think the Southern Avocas are in a much more dangerous neighborhood than the northern boys with Charleston and Mantis popping up in Kirkman's camp. The north is a vacuum and it would get interesting if a dominant coalition popped out of Kruger and moved there.

I agree with you. Encounters with a coalition in their prime will likely not end up well for these boys as they are only around 5 years old. Also, its true that one of the northern boy got separated in the fight with the Bboys which indicate that they had to run instead of holding their ground. However, the fact that they are still venturing back to Djuma with uncontested roars will only increase their growing confidence on taking on mature males in their prime. The Bboys may have abandoned the north for mating opportunities and not defeat, but by not returning to stake their claim, I think it became a psychological victory for the northern avocas even though they were physically beaten up.
You are trying really hard to paint a picture of the Avocas being the winners of that confrontation, they weren't one of them got separated and despite the BB's not being seen up North for more than a month they still haven't ventured further into Djuma since the confrontation.

They were seen deep into Djuma several times prior to the fight and only once after the confrontation and it was in the Northern reaches of Djuma what does that tell you ?

If they won that confrontation they would probably be a lot more brazen than what they have been.
My apologies, I'm not trying to make it seem like the Avocas won that confrontation. I acknowledge that they were were beaten up.  Perhaps I should have stated that it is my opinion that even though they were beaten up (lost the battle), they are certainly on a path to do well in the grand scheme of lion dynamics (winning the war in the game of lions) as they have gained experience, confidence and territory (if the Bboys don't return) which goes a long way on the path of becoming dominant males. 

As for venturing deeper into Djuma, I don't know - perhaps they are busy mating with the Talamati pride at the moment. We do know that there were lots of uncontested roaring which resulted in the Styx pride moving to Marthly and Nkuhuma pride to Londolozi. Again, its my opinion that the Bboys abandoned the north for mating opportunities with the Kambula pride and not because they were defeated in the confrontation, but by doing so, the might have surrendered the entire north to these youngsters. 

I like the Bboys, but I and am deeply disappointed they they are not defending territory and cubs.
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Brazil T Rabbit Offline
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Peteporker if im not wrong skorro was beaten by the old avoca males, not the young ones wich are trying to take over djuma. 
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United States vinodkumarn Offline
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(08-04-2018, 06:28 AM)T Rabbit Wrote: Peteporker if im not wrong skorro was beaten by the old avoca males, not the young ones wich are trying to take over djuma. 

Scorro was beaten by young ones as well (3), recently as reported by one of the lodges. (Tintswalo)
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Credits to Zali_Photo.


Avoca Male mating with Nkuhuma Female (31st July 2018)
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?Settings : Nikon D610 / F-Stop: f/2.8 / Mode: Manual Mode / ISO800 / Exposure Time: 1/4000 / Lens: Nikkor 70-200mm / Focal Length: 185mm / Reserve: Sabi Sands
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United States vinodkumarn Offline
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Credits: MalaMala

MALAMALA TODAY: August 6th-8th. The biggest news comes from our lions... The older of the 2 Eyrefield lionesses has given birth, south of Calabash Crossing! This is the first real bit of ‘good news’ to come out of the pride for quite some time. Other lions: The Avoca males were in the company of members of the Marthly Breakaway pride (aka Mhanghene) along the Sand River in southern Charleston. We’ve never seen this pride so far south! 2 lionesses from the Kambula pride were viewed separately but both in the vicinities of their respective den-sights
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