There is a world somewhere between reality and fiction. Although ignored by many, it is very real and so are those living in it. This forum is about the natural world. Here, wild animals will be heard and respected. The forum offers a glimpse into an unknown world as well as a room with a view on the present and the future. Anyone able to speak on behalf of those living in the emerald forest and the deep blue sea is invited to join.
(07-30-2018, 07:14 PM)NordicLion Wrote: Great forum!
I have always been fascinated by lions, especially the legen of Magopos. But i just cant seem to figure, which of the two coalitions were the strongest and most savage? i mean the majingilan were brutal, but magopos was savages ?
So who was really the strongest? Magopos has the legend, so i would tend to say them, but the Majingilans did kill Kinky tail and rasta? 4v1 though
So i am not an expert on lions, but on what i have watched and read, I would say the Mapogos were the strongest. The Mapogos at one point in their career were believed to kill over 100 lions in a year, which is an extraordinary number. And the amount of territory they held was incredible, and was never seen before. EVen though the Majingilanes defeated them, it was 4v1 on kinky tail and Rasta, but the Mapogos were older males at the time they died. I believe the youngest Mapogos were born in 2002 (Kinky Tail and Mr. T), but KT died 2010 (8 years old), and 2013 for Mr. T (11 years old). While Makhulu was born in 1999, and Dreadlocks/Pretty BOy/ Rasta were born in 2001, so they all lived decently long.
But the Majingilane were great lions, and successfully passed on their offspring, while the Mapogos do not have many living lions with their blood (Mangheni, Othawa, Timbula (maybe one or two more). And I personally think the Mapogos were more savage as from a young age Kinky Tail would throw himself onto large prey (giraffe, hippo, etc). And if you watch the documentary on the Mapogos, the rangers say how Mr. T and Kinky Tail were aggressive in there approach to getting food, and Mr. T was aggressive just in general, when it came down to eating food (by fighting with his brothers and sisters) and on him becoming the dominant male in the group.
Both are great lion coalitions though, but I would give the edge to the Mapogos. Especially because of Mr. T and Kinky Tail.
(07-31-2018, 03:39 PM)Leroy Wrote: And so it begins...
What you mean mate? I just wanted to hear peoples opinions. All lions is the best, and should be taken better care of !
My reason to ask, is because after watching the documentary i thought Magopos were the ultimate savages. But then is see this, that the Majingilane is the most brutals.
(07-30-2018, 07:14 PM)NordicLion Wrote: But i just cant seem to figure, which of the two coalitions were the strongest and most savage?
I guess it has to do with which side you're looking at this question from.
The are many variables to consider, but if strictly considering it from the size+agression side, then I would say the Mapogos were stronger, plus they had two more members to their coalition, and that means a lot in the lion world.
If you look at it from the territorial side, then both coalitions were very agressive when defending their borders, and the difference could be that the Majingilane were able to defend the prides they controlled in a better way, because they covered less territory(being less in number) and also because they didn't fight as much among them.
(07-30-2018, 07:14 PM)NordicLion Wrote: Great forum!
I have always been fascinated by lions, especially the legen of Magopos. But i just cant seem to figure, which of the two coalitions were the strongest and most savage? i mean the majingilan were brutal, but magopos was savages ?
So who was really the strongest? Magopos has the legend, so i would tend to say them, but the Majingilans did kill Kinky tail and rasta? 4v1 though
The Mapogo's, which is one of the main reasons they had such a fanbase but at what cost. They were one of my favorite coalitions as well but looking at it realistically, they were totally depopulating the Lion population while failling to consistently sire their own offspring. That's not a mark of success from an evolutionary standpoint, just highly fascinating to the human observer.
As far as your criteria, what I would give to the Majingilane's is that when they did kill(not more than they needed to, while siring a lot of offspring. yup it's a meaninful thing in my eyes) it was particularly brutal, in fact I can't even re-watch some of their takeover kills like what they did to Kinky Tail(I still believe it was a "revenge kill" after losing their 5th member to KT). It was also unusual that these males actually ate some of the Lions they killed. Also unusual that they even ate some of the Hyenas that they killed. It made them hunters of other apex predators, pretty unique.
(07-30-2018, 07:14 PM)NordicLion Wrote: Great forum!
I have always been fascinated by lions, especially the legen of Magopos. But i just cant seem to figure, which of the two coalitions were the strongest and most savage? i mean the majingilan were brutal, but magopos was savages ?
So who was really the strongest? Magopos has the legend, so i would tend to say them, but the Majingilans did kill Kinky tail and rasta? 4v1 though
The Mapogo's, which is one of the main reasons they had such a fanbase but at what cost. They were one of my favorite coalitions as well but looking at it realistically, they were totally depopulating the Lion population while failling to consistently sire their own offspring. That's not a mark of success from an evolutionary standpoint, just highly fascinating to the human observer.
As far as your criteria, what I would give to the Majingilane's is that when they did kill(not more than they needed to, while siring a lot of offspring. yup it's a meaninful thing in my eyes) it was particularly brutal, in fact I can't even re-watch some of their takeover kills like what they did to Kinky Tail(I still believe it was a "revenge kill" after losing their 5th member to KT). It was also unusual that these males actually ate some of the Lions they killed. Also unusual that they even ate some of the Hyenas that they killed. It made them hunters of other apex predators, pretty unique.
The Mapogos killed like that all the time. The bad thing is that most of these kills were not recorded and have been lost to time. The Mapogos have been eating lions way before the manginjis.
And I don't think it was revenge kill, they found a prime opportunity and took it. If kinky hadn't kept chase them, he wouldn't have died that day.
And lets be honest, them killing most if not all of their competition actually made it easier for others coalition to come in. Rather than beating 3 or 4 different coalitions, they just have to beat 2 lions.
I wouldn't call the manginjis overly aggressive, they were as aggressive as regular lions are. The Mapogos were overly aggressive, especially kinky and T.
08-02-2018, 01:54 AM( This post was last modified: 08-02-2018, 02:04 AM by Musa15 )
Quote:The Mapogos killed like that all the time. The bad thing is that most of these kills were not recorded and have been lost to time. The Mapogos have been eating lions way before the manginjis.
And I don't think it was revenge kill, they found a prime opportunity and took it. If kinky hadn't kept chase them, he wouldn't have died that day.
And lets be honest, them killing most if not all of their competition actually made it easier for others coalition to come in. Rather than beating 3 or 4 different coalitions, they just have to beat 2 lions.
I wouldn't call the manginjis overly aggressive, they were as aggressive as regular lions are. The Mapogos were overly aggressive, especially kinky and T.
What is the point of killing so many rivals if you're not successfully siring offspring? They failed in that regard which is a shame because each and every one of the Mapogos were great specimens physically. With 6 of them controlling such a vast area it should have resulted in most of SS being filled with their genes in the future. But in the end what happened was they merely reduced the population of both Lions and Hyenas for a number of years, in an era where both are losing numbers in the wild every year, before partitioning due to infighting and losing what they killed so many for. There's many who get a kick out of "Lion brutality" hence their popularity but I look at it from an evolutionary standpoint, and in that regard the Majingilane are unmatched in their greatness. The whole "who killed the most Lions" is meaningless especially if it had no real long-term purpose, that's just for sensationalism documentaries. Mohawk4 was correct, tje Majins do own all the meaninful stats except for territory size which is explained by their smaller coalition numbers.
(08-02-2018, 01:54 AM)Musa15 Wrote: What is the point of killing so many rivals if you're not successfully siring offspring? They failed in that regard which is a shame because each and every one of the Mapogos were great specimens physically. With 6 of them controlling such a vast area it should have resulted in most of SS being filled with their genes in the future. But in the end what happened was they merely reduced the population of both Lions and Hyenas for a number of years, in an era where both are losing numbers in the wild every year, before partitioning due to infighting and losing what they killed so many for. There's many who get a kick out of "Lion brutality" hence their popularity but I look at it from an evolutionary standpoint, and in that regard the Majingilane are unmatched in their greatness. The whole "who killed the most Lions" is meaningless especially if it had no real long-term purpose, that's just for sensationalism documentaries. Mohawk4 was correct, tje Majins do own all the meaninful stats except for territory size which is explained by their smaller coalition numbers.
The Mapogos did what lions do. Their success was unnaturally curbed by people, who killed not only Dreadlocks, but also some of their offspring. They did not fail...their daughters are spreading their genes.
I feel its a bit unfair to compare the success of the majingalanes against the bigger mapogos coalition. A 6 strong coalition will always have a lot more instability and also will be more likely to lack a well-defined hierarchy. The majingalanes were only four strong at most throughout their reign and as a result acted as a unit, the mapogos didn't do it to the same extent.
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Throwback to when the Majingilane were the Kings of Sabi Sands
Majingilanes vs Matimbas
Monday, 1 August 2011
(25°C)
By Elephant plains
Seven male lions chasing each other around Lucas open area
Cedric (Nkorho ranger)
The second real test for the Majingilane
"Are the Majingilanes strong enough and smart enough to handle all the new coalitions crossing through their territory ? .. especially concerned with the Matimbas as they seem to be invading many areas" only time will tell."
As shared by Cedric, Ranger at Nkorho - 1st August 2011
Morning
- Our drive was all about the Majingilane's vs Matimba lions.
It all started out with 4 x Matimba'a (male lions) calling from the south of baboon pan. Then all of a sudden we got four of them moving across gowrie main in a northerly direction. We parked on gowrie main wishing that they would come south again. Then suddenly we got lions calling just south of baboon pan, i waited and then got visual of three male lions coming north. It was the Majingilane's busy calling claiming there territory. The four Matimba's did not back down and started calling from the north and came south again face on with the Majingilanes. The Matimba males ran across gowrie main again and headed towards baboon pan where the Majingilane's were, but the Majingilane's tucked there tail under them a started to run south with the Matimba males right on there heels. The vocalisation was immense as they were all calling trying to claim the territory. We just waited on gowrie main, and it was not long before we got the Matimba males running north again with the Majingilanes hot on there tail's. This happened several times, it was like a ping pong battle. The Matimba males moved further north but still calling like crazy and the Majingilanes settled just south of baboon pan. Tired from the mornings affairs. With all that commotion this morning I'm sure the other Majingilane will be joining his brothers and the other two Matimba males will be joining there brothers. Maybe tonight will be interesting. Watch this space.
Regards
Majingilane males, during encounter with Matimbas, early August 2011, photo courtesy Katia Meijs
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3 of the Majingilane males after chasing the 4 Matimba males right back into the Vuyatela!
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*This image is copyright of its original author
*This image is copyright of its original author
Matimba males
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*This image is copyright of its original author
3 of the 4 lions we followed at Arathusa in Aug 2011. We got a chance to see 2 coalitions of 4 lions roar at and chase each other. Magnificent animals
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Aug 1, 2011
Great report Cedric.1:0 for the Majingilanes, being able to chase the Matimbas off their territory although being outnumbered. May be the Matimbas decide the south being to costly to invade? Let's hope for it.
(08-02-2018, 09:19 AM)sik94 Wrote: I feel its a bit unfair to compare the success of the majingalanes against the bigger mapogos coalition. A 6 strong coalition will always have a lot more instability and also will be more likely to lack a well-defined hierarchy. The majingalanes were only four strong at most throughout their reign and as a result acted as a unit, the mapogos didn't do it to the same extent.
So true. Same happened with the Matimbas. But I also feel that the Mapogos instability came from some of the bigger "personalities" in the group. T and Kinky were wild ones. After they separated from the others, they were a great 2 male lion coalition.
History's most brutal killers, the Majingilane Male Lions
