Coalitions of Kruger National Park

[Brahim]

@Tr1x24 Yeah exactly no one should be blaming him for anything. Reply

[Psyckoo]

(04-26-2021, 10:11 PM)Brahimlegend Wrote: Yeah a lot of hate for Bigger Vurhami around blaming him. But I still love the guy and hope he comes back stronger. As  @Tr1x24   said I don’t think it’s over.

You said it's not over, what can he do ? He is now alone, and Mjejanes seem not so stupid to try something alone, as i said before Mjejanes seem very good in playing with their numbers and experience...

Of course if Mo found partner and 'convince' them to go back is another story but for now, it's Mjejanes who are doing the game... Reply

[Brahim]

He needs new partners, he’s got options, hopefully he can find some. Reply

[Gijima]

The competition down there seems brutal. Male lions getting slaughtered left and right. It makes you realize how different things are in Manyeleti or Sabi Sands were nomads can just hang out for months with no pressure. 100% not Mo's fault... just a bad time to be a male down there. Reply

[Matimbalani]

(04-26-2021, 09:25 PM)Tr1x24 Wrote:

(04-26-2021, 09:06 PM)BA0701 Wrote: Mpondos were massive males, and equally brutal as some of the most brutal coalitions. But, wow, these Mjejane bring with them a level of brutality reminiscent of the Mapogos, and with half the numbers.

Mapogos where know for brutality and agression because they where observed their whole life, but there was definitely coalitions in Kruger who had the same lvl of that, but we just dont know because they where not observed, or far less..

From few pieces that we got, Mantimahles where also brutal beasts when they came into scene, a lot of males and young males disappeared around the area where Mantimahles step foot on in 2016/17.

Mjejanes are also quite observed because of Mjejane Reserve, so we know what they are doing, but if they would be somewhere in Kruger, we would had no idea..

So when people say, theres no coalition like Mapogos or Majingilanes, thats very wrong assumption, because we cant follow coalitions which are in Kruger to same extend..

I think the response very much depends on age. Prime or near prime males will probably react very aggressively towards intruders. If the Mjejane had not obliterated the Vurhamis they would have had six healthy males at their door sooner or later. Thats the dynamic that played out with Southern Matimbas and BBoys. If the Matimbas had tried and picked off some of the BBoys when they could, they would have had a better chance of controlling their prides. That cost them a few good years of dominance.

I hope the two Vurhamis survive even though it doesn't look good for one of them. Reply

[Matimbalani]

(04-26-2021, 11:03 PM)Tr1x24 Wrote:

(04-26-2021, 10:11 PM)Brahimlegend Wrote: Yeah a lot of hate for Bigger Vurhami around blaming him. But I still love the guy and hope he comes back stronger. As  @Tr1x24   said I don’t think it’s over.

No need for hate,from our perspective it looks like that, but lions cant think logically like us humans, he was doing what his drive was telling him, he cant recognize state of his brother or judge if he is ready or not, they are animals afterall.

Maybe that's where experience comes in. An older lion might intuitively understand what's going on and somehow protect his partner. HB and Skorro come to mind when Ginger was limping and Sizanani had the hip injury. Also the bigger Matshapiri would run around in circles chased by the Avocas while his brother was wasting away. Mo being young made the foolhardy calculation of trying to fight while his brother was in no state to do so. Reply

[Tr1x24]

(04-26-2021, 11:47 PM)Matimbalani Wrote: Maybe that's where experience comes in. An older lion might intuitively understand what's going on and somehow protect his partner. HB and Skorro come to mind when Ginger was limping and Sizanani had the hip injury. Also the bigger Matshapiri would run around in circles chased by the Avocas while his brother was wasting away. Mo being young made the foolhardy calculation of trying to fight while his brother was in no state to do so.

Well yes, experience definitely plays its part, but neither of those coalitions you mentioned face prime force like Mjejane males.. I think no duo, even if prime males, would stand much of a chance against them, prob would smartly run away.

Mjejane males are not only very agressive and fierce, they are very smart and always stick together when its fighting time, so it would be hard to isolate one male.

By rangers words, Mo tryed to save his brother, as he returned back in and tried to take attention on him, but Mbilu was already done.. It prob didn't took to much time for 3 big males to fatally wound him. Reply

[Potato]

(04-26-2021, 11:40 PM)Matimbalani Wrote: Thats the dynamic that played out with Southern Matimbas and BBoys. If the Matimbas had tried and picked off some of the BBoys when they could, they would have had a better chance of controlling their prides

Easier said than done. That Mjejane defeated coalition of 6 being coalition of 3 themselfs doesn't mean it is easy think to do and any coalition can do that. It is likely that if Matimbas would try to fight 5 Birminghams it would backfire at them as odds in such confrontation would be in Birminghams favour.

(04-26-2021, 11:47 PM)Matimbalani Wrote: HB and Skorro come to mind when Ginger was limping and Sizanani had the hip injury

I do not know what Skorro did :o I assume you are reffering also to confrontation of Matimbas with Northern Avocas. Actions of HB there were not about protecting Ginger as Matimbas had much more than enough time to withdrew and insteed then were continuing roaring. Moreover in fact it was HB who charged Avocas not other way around.

(04-26-2021, 11:47 PM)Matimbalani Wrote: Also the bigger Matshapiri would run around in circles chased by the Avocas while his brother was wasting away

Same as in case above, this case was as well about territory, not about protecting coalition partner. Healty Matshapiri (who btw was smaller of the two, not a bigger one) tryed to defend his territory and Avocas tryed to take it from him. Moreover their confrontation did not even took place where Mohawk Matshapiri was so I do not know why would you even think it was about defending coalition partner. Reply

[Tr1x24]

Photo of Toya and Pretty Boy, posted today:

Photo Credit : mario_v_paul

*This image is copyright of its original author

Reply

[Brahim]

I don’t even use those names. I just say the biggest one, better looking one , and Mohawk one. Lol. But I think the biggest is most dominant. And dave Pusey also said he’s the the most dominant earlier on his post Reply

[Matimbalani]

(04-27-2021, 12:41 AM)Potato Wrote:

(04-26-2021, 11:40 PM)Matimbalani Wrote: Thats the dynamic that played out with Southern Matimbas and BBoys. If the Matimbas had tried and picked off some of the BBoys when they could, they would have had a better chance of controlling their prides

Easier said than done. That Mjejane defeated coalition of 6 being coalition of 3 themselfs doesn't mean it is easy think to do and any coalition can do that. It is likely that if Matimbas would try to fight 5 Birminghams it would backfire at them as odds in such confrontation would be in Birminghams favour.

(04-26-2021, 11:47 PM)Matimbalani Wrote: HB and Skorro come to mind when Ginger was limping and Sizanani had the hip injury

I do not know what Skorro did :o I assume you are reffering also to confrontation of Matimbas with Northern Avocas. Actions of HB there were not about protecting Ginger as Matimbas had much more than enough time to withdrew and insteed then were continuing roaring. Moreover in fact it was HB who charged Avocas not other way around.

(04-26-2021, 11:47 PM)Matimbalani Wrote: Also the bigger Matshapiri would run around in circles chased by the Avocas while his brother was wasting away

Same as in case above, this case was as well about territory, not about protecting coalition partner. Healty Matshapiri (who btw was smaller of the two, not a bigger one) tryed to defend his territory and Avocas tryed to take it from him. Moreover their confrontation did not even took place where Mohawk Matshapiri was so I do not know why would you even think it was about defending coalition partner.

Well, regardless of the numbers experience and confidence matters. Most of the accounts of the confrontation are here on this forum and there is no hard and fast rule. Junior chased the three Northern Avocas around and the Charleston's were a scourge for all young coalitions. Skorro did fight the three Northern Avocas by himself and took a beating but did not run back to his pride. The Avocas did find the Mohawk Matshapiri but didn't kill him mostly because they were focused on chasing the healthy Matshapiri. Ginger was limping badly and the accounts do suggest that there was a scuffle in the bush when HB moved in to confront the Northern Avocas. Recent accounts of Nharhus chasing the Mibiris suggest that the smaller maned would regularly stop and wait for his limping brother during the chase. That to me suggests that they are aware of each others condition and behave accordingly. Of course this is how we interpret things. Your interpretation may differ but I am not an expert so take my observation for what it is. Reply

[BA0701]

(04-27-2021, 01:09 AM)Matimbalani Wrote:

(04-27-2021, 12:41 AM)Potato Wrote:

(04-26-2021, 11:40 PM)Matimbalani Wrote: Thats the dynamic that played out with Southern Matimbas and BBoys. If the Matimbas had tried and picked off some of the BBoys when they could, they would have had a better chance of controlling their prides

Easier said than done. That Mjejane defeated coalition of 6 being coalition of 3 themselfs doesn't mean it is easy think to do and any coalition can do that. It is likely that if Matimbas would try to fight 5 Birminghams it would backfire at them as odds in such confrontation would be in Birminghams favour.

(04-26-2021, 11:47 PM)Matimbalani Wrote: HB and Skorro come to mind when Ginger was limping and Sizanani had the hip injury

I do not know what Skorro did :o I assume you are reffering also to confrontation of Matimbas with Northern Avocas. Actions of HB there were not about protecting Ginger as Matimbas had much more than enough time to withdrew and insteed then were continuing roaring. Moreover in fact it was HB who charged Avocas not other way around.

(04-26-2021, 11:47 PM)Matimbalani Wrote: Also the bigger Matshapiri would run around in circles chased by the Avocas while his brother was wasting away

Same as in case above, this case was as well about territory, not about protecting coalition partner. Healty Matshapiri (who btw was smaller of the two, not a bigger one) tryed to defend his territory and Avocas tryed to take it from him. Moreover their confrontation did not even took place where Mohawk Matshapiri was so I do not know why would you even think it was about defending coalition partner.

Well, regardless of the numbers experience and confidence matters. Most of the accounts of the confrontation are here on this forum and there is no hard and fast rule. Junior chased the three Northern Avocas around and the Charleston's were a scourge for all young coalitions. Skorro did fight the three Northern Avocas by himself and took a beating but did not run back to his pride. The Avocas did find the Mohawk Matshapiri but didn't kill him mostly because they were focused on chasing the healthy Matshapiri. Ginger was limping badly and the accounts do suggest that there was a scuffle in the bush when HB moved in to confront the Northern Avocas. Recent accounts of Nharhus chasing the Mibiris suggest that the smaller maned would regularly stop and wait for his limping brother during the chase. That to me suggests that they are aware of each others condition and behave accordingly. Of course this is how we interpret things. Your interpretation may differ but I am not an expert so take my observation for what it is.

The Charlestons, from all accounts I have read were absolute destroyers. Just a few months back, out of the blue, recent images of Big Boy started popping up on these pages, and seemed to be doing very well in his brothers stead. I assume it is his staying in Kruger as to why we don't receive regular updates on his exploits, but he is still a monster for sure. Reply

[Tr1x24]

(04-27-2021, 01:27 AM)BA0701 Wrote: The Charlestons, from all accounts I have read were absolute destroyers. Just a few months back, out of the blue, recent images of Big Boy started popping up on these pages, and seemed to be doing very well in his brothers stead. I assume it is his staying in Kruger as to why we don't receive regular updates on his exploits, but he is still a monster for sure

Big Boy was not seen in around 6 months, his pride and area where he was last seen is now under control of Snip Tail Mpondo. Reply

[Timbavati]

As Tr1x24 mentioned, Big boy wasn't seen in almost  6 months. The snip-tailed Mpondo male was seen on the S65 with a pride of lions and cubs a couple of months ago Reply

[BA0701]

(04-27-2021, 01:30 AM)Tr1x24 Wrote:

(04-27-2021, 01:27 AM)BA0701 Wrote: The Charlestons, from all accounts I have read were absolute destroyers. Just a few months back, out of the blue, recent images of Big Boy started popping up on these pages, and seemed to be doing very well in his brothers stead. I assume it is his staying in Kruger as to why we don't receive regular updates on his exploits, but he is still a monster for sure

Big Boy was not seen in around 6 months, his pride and area where he was last seen is now under control of Snip Tail Mpondo.

@Tr1x24 and @Timbavati thank you both for that. Is he believed to have just lost his pride, or is he believed to have died? Reply