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Animal trainers

Romania paul cooper Offline
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If anyone wants to read Clyde Beattys book, you can do for free here.
https://archive.org/details/facingbigcatsmyw00beat

You have to make an account and "borrow" it. You only have 14 days to read it tho.
Show your worth by what you seek!
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Romania paul cooper Offline
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( This post was last modified: 10-03-2018, 02:34 PM by paul cooper )

(01-28-2016, 11:56 PM)Polar Wrote: Again, I don't trust any of these animal trainers, no matter what animal they support. Most are quite contradicting in their views. Beatty favored the lion in public, but privately, he had several of his lions killed by tigers. Louis Roth stated that he never had a tiger lose to a lion, but lo and behold, one of the heavy-side lions killed a big tiger in a fight to the death. I think they base their opinions off the animals in what they see instead of the wild. True, some of them might get some of their animals straight from the wild, but whose not to say that some of those trainers immediately got killed or mistreated the animal according to the animal's way of life. In my opinion, the animal trainers' observations come from their resulting actions on the animals and the animals' respective responses to the trainers' actions. For instance, Beatty is well known to have let multiple lions out at once to attack a sick, small, or already injured tiger. This resulted in him calling lions "socially sophisticated" and well-versed into supporting each other, when in fact, tigers in the wild have been known to do the same to prey items. The observations of animal trainers and those of wildlife enthusiasts are very different, you know.

I totally agree bro. I think a trainers credibility as a whole should be pretty fragile, if you see he is kinda contradicting himself and being a bit bias and all, he should be taken a bit lightly on his opinions. And bro bear and pckts also made some great points on trainers. You should never lose focus on the basic facts on the animals. In the trainer worle there is no right or wrong when it comes to out spoken opinions, i heard trainers say the complete opposite of what other trainers say, both fairly experienced i guess. Maybe some of them can just be making assumptions, idk. Its pretty subjective.

What i also thought, ill just keep it as a personal opinion for now, is that european trainers seem less bias than american, or at least some of the american trainers that lion fans shove down your throat. I have seen many american trainers who are very professional (outside of training the animals and entertaining i am talking about). At least thats the impression @peter  shows on the trainers he interviewed, but they seem more down to earth and realistic than the american ones.

I mean, i havent seen a european trainer insult the tiger and say any sick lion can kill any tiger that has ever lived.

And i think we can all agree on this.. something is up with beatty no doubt. I read his books and peter is right, its not just remarks when he talks lion vs tiger but all throughout his book, and its weird because he makes generalizations then later in his book he makes observations that are opposite of the generalizations. Like he literally lies and is delusional or something, some weird stuff. Also.. his comment on lioness and tigress and being a mother is a bit too far no doubt. I see tigresses squashing her own cubs all the time, since they dont watch when they stretch out for their cubs, becauss they are "nervous", right peter?
Show your worth by what you seek!
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Netherlands peter Offline
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( This post was last modified: 10-03-2018, 06:48 PM by peter )

(10-03-2018, 02:29 PM)paul cooper Wrote:
(01-28-2016, 11:56 PM)Polar Wrote: Again, I don't trust any of these animal trainers, no matter what animal they support. Most are quite contradicting in their views. Beatty favored the lion in public, but privately, he had several of his lions killed by tigers. Louis Roth stated that he never had a tiger lose to a lion, but lo and behold, one of the heavy-side lions killed a big tiger in a fight to the death. I think they base their opinions off the animals in what they see instead of the wild. True, some of them might get some of their animals straight from the wild, but whose not to say that some of those trainers immediately got killed or mistreated the animal according to the animal's way of life. In my opinion, the animal trainers' observations come from their resulting actions on the animals and the animals' respective responses to the trainers' actions. For instance, Beatty is well known to have let multiple lions out at once to attack a sick, small, or already injured tiger. This resulted in him calling lions "socially sophisticated" and well-versed into supporting each other, when in fact, tigers in the wild have been known to do the same to prey items. The observations of animal trainers and those of wildlife enthusiasts are very different, you know.

I totally agree bro. I think a trainers credibility as a whole should be pretty fragile, if you see he is kinda contradicting himself and being a bit bias and all, he should be taken a bit lightly on his opinions. And bro bear and pckts also made some great points on trainers. You should never lose focus on the basic facts on the animals. In the trainer worle there is no right or wrong when it comes to out spoken opinions, i heard trainers say the complete opposite of what other trainers say, both fairly experienced i guess. Maybe some of them can just be making assumptions, idk. Its pretty subjective.

What i also thought, ill just keep it as a personal opinion for now, is that european trainers seem less bias than american, or at least some of the american trainers that lion fans shove down your throat. I have seen many american trainers who are very professional (outside of training the animals and entertaining i am talking about). At least thats the impression @peter  shows on the trainers he interviewed, but they seem more down to earth and realistic than the american ones.

I mean, i havent seen a european trainer insult the tiger and say any sick lion can kill any tiger that has ever lived.

And i think we can all agree on this.. something is up with beatty no doubt. I read his books and peter is right, its not just remarks when he talks lion vs tiger but all throughout his book, and its weird because he makes generalizations then later in his book he makes observations that are opposite of the generalizations. Like he literally lies and is delusional or something, some weird stuff. Also.. his comment on lioness and tigress and being a mother is a bit too far no doubt. I see tigresses squashing her own cubs all the time, since they dont watch when they stretch out for their cubs, becauss they are "nervous", right peter?

I'm talking tigers and bears with Vegeta San right now. He showed me things I didn't know about. Before entering the department of judgement, I propose to solve a few problems at home. Reputation and all that. Important.  

Clean up the mess. After that, we'll talk Beatty.
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Netherlands peter Offline
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( This post was last modified: 10-05-2018, 01:47 AM by peter )

COOPER

This post is a continuation of the previous post in that it will be more specific on the 'problems at home' (see the previous post).  

You and Vegeta San are members of Wildfact. You also are members of another forum. It is about the other forum. More specifically, it is about the way you interact with Vegeta San at the other forum. I'm referring to posts loaded with what we consider to be outright garbage over here. 

We have no jurisdiction outside this forum, but then we have. The reason is both of you are members of this forum as well. If one abuses the other at the other forum, it will affect the climate at this forum as well. This means we can act.      

Over here, you play by the book. At the other forum, your alter ego is calling the shots. We don't mind you developing in the double personality department, but it has a few disadvantages. One of them is swimming in circles. Another is zero development in the department of communication. The most important, however, is getting confronted with the results. Losing face is one of them. One of the two, to be more accurate.   

Over 70 years ago, a terrible war was concluded. One could say it was about human dignity and be close. Those in favour of dignity won.

Although things can change real fast when humans are involved, we do dignity over here. It's essential and starts with respect. In all departments at all times, no matter what. This principle enables members from all over the globe to interact about things they're interested in without watching their back all the time.

The internet is a great invention, provided basic rules of engagement are respected. At a forum like this one, the natural world can only be explored when it really is at the core. In order to get there, members need to overcome a few problems typical for most of us. Referring to the struggle for power, status and all the rest of it. Not easy, but it will result in a bit more insight into a world ignored by many.

The struggle for power no doubt is mighty interesting as well, but we don't do it over here. The reason is it has no real meaning. 

In other words. Tell your alter ego to get lost and go for one face. Cheaper. Don't indulge in a reversed Beatty-act (lions are as interesting as tigers), but use preference in the best possible way to get to a bit of knowledge. And refrain from insult, no matter what. Tell Vegeta San you're sorry and focus on things that really matter. Not that difficult and way more interesting than joining another Starfox-reel, which seems to be an advanced practice in abuse.

No direct ban and this post say you still got some credit. It's up to you, that is.
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