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The Mighty Mapogos
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 (12-16-2024, 09:15 PM)Mapokser Wrote: 2015 someone reliable ( IIRC a ranger ) made a facebook post explaining what happened, and the head of the anti-poaching team from Sabi Sands at the time of the Mapogo ( Willem Botha ), made another post citing the previous post and confirming that yeah it was what happened. Thank you for that. I remember reading some of this stuff back in the day and I remember W. Botha. I didn't know it was confirmed he was poached and to this detail ththe info was out there but it makes sense. Curious about those fences nowadays and since that era, besides Mfumo disappearing, I don't remember hearing about any lion traveling out of Sabi Sands into the nearby villages. Has there been any other accounts of this since? 
It's possible something similar happened after that, of course, but I don't think it was ever confirmed, meaning reliable people admitting or confirming that missing lion X left the reserve and was killed in human-wildlife conflict.
 (12-15-2024, 08:54 AM)Mapokser Wrote:(12-13-2024, 10:43 PM)BA0701 Wrote: We were discussing the situation at Elephant Plains, on the Kruger thread, and it got me thinking about the things that happened back then. The loss of Rasta was a really big blow, just as the loss of KT was even bigger, but, I still believe that the loss of Dreadlocks, to poachers, was the biggest loss to the 6 Mapogos. They had been able to regroup and recover from all of the others, and Dreadlocks played a big role in that. Once Dreadlocks was killed, the end of the Mapogo reign came relatively quickly afterwards. 5 Selati - just proving the point, Majingilane took young Selati down from 5 to 4 members early on and consequently they never outnumbered them since and thus never become that big of a threat. 
Nah dreadlocks was poached he’s a lion he doesn’t know he can’t kill cattle other lions got killed by snares in the west during this time
5 Mapogo males on a buffalo kill at Ulusaba, September 2006
 *This image is copyright of its original author  *This image is copyright of its original author by Graham Beet
 (03-02-2025, 10:05 PM)FACR2212 Wrote: Is this legit or just nonsense? Fourways did adopt 2 unknown males at that time (Blondie Fourways/Phabeni and his bro who got killed by S.Matimbas in 2014) but really doubt these 2 are Ximhungwes, as these 2 looked a bit older then these 2 Ximhungwes on the video. We would need good pictures to confirm that. (03-02-2025, 11:49 PM)Tr1x24 Wrote:(03-02-2025, 10:05 PM)FACR2212 Wrote: Is this legit or just nonsense? Couldn’t they have just have grown in that time they were with the four ways male lions? How much time were the male lions with the four ways? (03-03-2025, 02:54 AM)Guillermo94 Wrote: Couldn’t they have just have grown in that time they were with the four ways male lions? These 2 unknown males where seen in company of 3-4 lionesses similar age, which where their sisters, before joining Fourways pride (i remember posting photos in Sabi Ssnds threat few years back) Based of the area, its speculated that these lionesses become Torchwood pride, 2 young males left their sisters prob under pressure of Matimbas who started mating with their sisters. (03-03-2025, 02:54 AM)Guillermo94 Wrote: How much time were the male lions with the four ways? They made a coalition with Fourways young male, and 3 of them become nomads later in 2013 and 2014. In 2014 they went north and challenged 2 S.Matimbas, who in a famous recorded fight, fatally wounded 1 of 2 males who joined Fourways. Later Fourways male (Majingilane son, know as DM) and unrelated male (known as Blondie Fourways) became territorial in southern Sabi Sand, their story is well known. 
First post, registered just for this, long time lurker.
I hope someone might be able to help me around a curiosity or two regarding The Mapogos. We know so far that the Mapogos fathers, The West Street Males or Sparta Males, were retroactively named after The Mapogos success. The names given AFAIK are Scar Nose, Broken Nose, Blondie, Scar Eyebrow and Mak Senior. What I've been wanting to know out of curiosity for a long time is what was Mak Seniors original name. The only clue I ever got about this was on a video where the person filming says "that's Big Boy" in reference to a lion on a video about the West Street Males, and Makhulu means Big or similar, so maybe that "Big Boy" became Mak Senior later on. On a different note, I remember reading somewhere that Makhulu was an actual member of The West Street Males for like year and a half to two years, helping the pride as a normal member during that time. For the most part is noted everywhere I've looked that the last West Street Male died around 2004, sounds alright as to take into account that they (or just him at this point) expelled the 5 young Mapogos earlier that same year or something (Seems too early for Mr T and KT). My question is, did Makhulu leave with his half-brothers, I highly doubt a 5-6yo Makhulu would be expelled by the dominant males at this stage, or had he been expelled earlier and reunited with them later on. There's even a picture here of a fully manned Makhulu with his 5 half-manned half-brothers, which is beautiful by the way. It kind of reminds me of Notch and his sons, pretty similar but The Mapogos did it first with a twist. Apologies if this is not the place for questions such as these.  (03-10-2025, 02:08 PM)Delyrium Wrote: First post, registered just for this, long time lurker. Welcome to WildFact, @Delyrium, you've come to the right place. We have a most excellent, and helpful community. Just as we do with all new members, I'd like to direct you to our rules section, and I will also point out our tutorial section, which explains how to do most things on the site. I will link them at the bottom of this post. If you have any questions, or need assistance, feel free to contact myself, or any of our other Mods, either via PM, or through the boards. In the mean time, we hope you enjoy the site, and look forward to your contributions! https://wildfact.com/forum/topic-forum-rules https://wildfact.com/forum/forum-tips-gu...al-problem (03-10-2025, 02:08 PM)Delyrium Wrote: First post, registered just for this, long time lurker. WSM had no names. WSM never ousted the Mapogo, when the 2 remaining ones died in 2004, the Mapogo were still with the pride and remained with them until they left for good in early 2006, so they were never truly nomadic, they left and immediately challenged for territory in the West. Makhulu, Rasta and PB seemed to be leaving for good in 2005 but they ended up sticking around the pride and joined the other brothers.  (03-10-2025, 02:08 PM)Delyrium Wrote: First post, registered just for this, long time lurker. Yes Makhulu was by the end of their reign, a full time member, there were reports of him beating the last two West Street Males for mating rights and was also seen patrolling with atleast one of them on numerous occasions. There used to be a rumour the last two West Street Males along with Makhulu fought with some of the Rollercoaster males in mid 2004, one of the West Street Males was caught and saved by his brother and Makhulu but still eventually died from his injuries. I don’t know if that was ever confirmed. Mapogos were never ousted by their fathers, I suspect they prolly left due to the fact majority of the lionesses weren’t willing to mate with their own sons. Makhulu was obviously different, but he clearly sensed a bigger future with his younger brothers instead of staying by himself. This is where the Mapogo story, in my opinion, is different to all the others. Makhulu was strong enough to stay a dominant male by himself, but willingly chose to stay with his brothers. Notch and all the others alike, were kinda forced into that situation by losing their brother / pride.
I mean, Makhulu joined the pride at 1,5yo, after 5 years I doubt any of the females or himself wouldn't think about him as being related, Makhulu also wanted to move off due to seeing the Sparta pride as his natal pride.
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