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ON THE EDGE OF EXTINCTION - D - THE LEOPARD (Panthera pardus)

United States Pckts Offline
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#46

(09-04-2016, 09:46 AM)Blackleopard Wrote: Ok thanks guys, yeah I was having a discussion about this, and was not sure which was bigger the Puma or the Leopard, I was thinking though, the leopard looks to have a larger head.  Would be interesting to see if there is any data revealing this.  There does seem to be some big cougars out there, but for whatever reason, it just seems like for their size, the cougars have pretty small heads for a bigcat.  I was sort of arguing for the leopard being the stronger, and thinking it would win, but this guy was posting stuff showing puma's slaying bears, and I was like, what!!!!   Had no idea cougars were that tough, so now I'm not sure, I still think the leopard should be tougher, but again, I guess the cougar's do face some pretty tough competition with the bears.
Cougars are no joke, their ability to take down large prey and fight off bears is a testament to their species. My personal opinion is this, if cougars are capable of such impressive feats, imagine a cat with similar abilities but more impressive weapons.... I'm not saying one will beat the other, I'm just saying that a leopard, all things considered, should be capable of everything a puma can do with the addition of more power attached to the skull and torso of the body.
"Imagination was given to man to compensate him for what he is not, and a sense of humor was provided to console him for what he is."
-Oscar Wilde
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United States Blackleopard Offline
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#47

Thanks, yeah that's pretty interesting info, maybe its a toss up between who's over all larger, but yet the leopard has the stronger head and neck perhaps.  Did not know there were big leopards in Iran, never heard that before, cool pic.  That jaguar looks dense, great photo, strong looking neck.

What do you guys think of the fighting methods of these cats, do you think the leopard, puma and Jaguar would have the same techniques or would they vary.  I was surprised at some of the accounts out there of cougars killing bears, and some of the footage, looked like the cougar was pretty deliberate at striking the bear.  It didn't just strike on its hind legs repeatedly, it actually lunged at the bears face and then swiped.  I know the leopards go for the throat generally as most cats do, but you wonder, would they all have a similar fighting method.
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Netherlands peter Offline
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#48
( This post was last modified: 11-04-2016, 10:10 AM by peter )

LEOPARDS IN WESTERN AFRICA  


a - http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/download?doi=10.1.1.634.726&rep=rep1&type=pdf (Henschel, P., Gottingen, Germany, 2008 - thesis about Gabon leopards)

b - http://www.eva.mpg.de/fileadmin/content_files/primatology/bonobo/pdf/Damour_et_al_2006.pdf (d'Amour, D.E., Hohmann, G., and Fruth, B., 2005 - bonobos and leopards - the bottom line is that large size is no protection against leopards, perhaps the opposite is true) 

c - http://mahale.main.jp/PAN/7_2/7(2)-05.html (Furuichi, T., 1995 - adolescent male chimpanzee killed and partly eaten by a leopard in a forest 300 m. from shore)

d - http://scienceblogs.com/laelaps/2010/04/06/spotting-leopards-the-import/ (Switek, B., 2010 - a comment based on a study - the bottom line is Ivory Coast leopards preferred large monkeys living in large groups over smaller monkeys living in smaller groups)
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India parvez Offline
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#49

(11-04-2016, 09:16 AM)peter Wrote: LEOPARDS IN WESTERN AFRICA  


a - http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/download?doi=10.1.1.634.726&rep=rep1&type=pdf (Henschel, P., Gottingen, Germany, 2008 - thesis about Gabon leopards)

b - http://www.eva.mpg.de/fileadmin/content_files/primatology/bonobo/pdf/Damour_et_al_2006.pdf (d'Amour, D.E., Hohmann, G., and Fruth, B., 2005 - bonobos and leopards - the bottom line is that large size is no protection against leopards, perhaps the opposite is true) 

c - http://mahale.main.jp/PAN/7_2/7(2)-05.html (Furuichi, T., 1995 - adolescent male chimpanzee killed and partly eaten by a leopard in a forest 300 m. from shore)

d - http://scienceblogs.com/laelaps/2010/04/06/spotting-leopards-the-import/ (Switek, B., 2010 - a comment based on a study - the bottom line is Ivory Coast leopards preferred large monkeys living in large groups over smaller monkeys living in smaller groups)
The fourth one sounds interesting. The true beast like nature of leopard is apparent.
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India parvez Offline
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#50
( This post was last modified: 11-05-2016, 12:11 PM by parvez )

(11-04-2016, 09:16 AM)peter Wrote: LEOPARDS IN WESTERN AFRICA  


a - http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/download?doi=10.1.1.634.726&rep=rep1&type=pdf (Henschel, P., Gottingen, Germany, 2008 - thesis about Gabon leopards)

b - http://www.eva.mpg.de/fileadmin/content_files/primatology/bonobo/pdf/Damour_et_al_2006.pdf (d'Amour, D.E., Hohmann, G., and Fruth, B., 2005 - bonobos and leopards - the bottom line is that large size is no protection against leopards, perhaps the opposite is true) 

c - http://mahale.main.jp/PAN/7_2/7(2)-05.html (Furuichi, T., 1995 - adolescent male chimpanzee killed and partly eaten by a leopard in a forest 300 m. from shore)

d - http://scienceblogs.com/laelaps/2010/04/06/spotting-leopards-the-import/ (Switek, B., 2010 - a comment based on a study - the bottom line is Ivory Coast leopards preferred large monkeys living in large groups over smaller monkeys living in smaller groups)
It also indicates how vulnerable apes including man were to other animals at one stage of evolution. Humans surely must have survived natural death by accidental use of weapons. They were treated with much inferiority by other carnivores at least. It seemed they loved or relished killing apes including man.
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United States Polar Offline
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#51

Yes, even the strongest of men are the weakest when compared to a smaller felid such as a leopard. Many people overestimate the primate family...
"Be the reason someone smiles. Be the reason someone feels loved and believes in the goodness in people."

- Roy T. Bennett
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Switzerland Spalea Offline
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#52

(11-05-2016, 12:24 PM)Polar Wrote: Yes, even the strongest of men are the weakest when compared to a smaller felid such as a leopard. Many people overestimate the primate family...

Yes, quite agree. I have just discovered the four Peter's links. Very interesting to see how, by the actual exemples of predation upon large primates, a 50-60 kilos,  felid would have influenced the man's evolution...
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India brotherbear Offline
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#53

Two or three years ago, I watched a nature documentary about leopards. This particular program showed leopards of various locations of Africa and Asia. When speaking of the leopards of the tropical African Congo region, the statement was made that of all the creatures of the jungle, the only animal that a leopard fears is the chimpanzee. They went on to say that a troop of chimps can remove a leopard from their territory. 
It is my opinion that when a leopard discovers a lone chimpanzee, the great ape has little chance of survival. But, in mass, the chimps are a force to be reckoned with.
 Grizzly  - Boss of the Woods.
        
  
             
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India parvez Offline
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#54

@Ngala, please say Which group of leopards are the biggest, Assam and terai or Persian or Srilankan leopards? I assume that assam and terai leopards must be bigger and stockier like other animals too from this region. Correct me if i am wrong. Are srilankan and persian leopards proven to be the biggest?
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India parvez Offline
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#55
( This post was last modified: 11-05-2016, 07:03 PM by parvez )

(11-05-2016, 05:30 PM)brotherbear Wrote: Two or three years ago, I watched a nature documentary about leopards. This particular program showed leopards of various locations of Africa and Asia. When speaking of the leopards of the tropical African Congo region, the statement was made that of all the creatures of the jungle, the only animal that a leopard fears is the chimpanzee. They went on to say that a troop of chimps can remove a leopard from their territory. 
It is my opinion that when a leopard discovers a lone chimpanzee, the great ape has little chance of survival. But, in mass, the chimps are a force to be reckoned with.

Hi brother bear, man must have been solitary at the time he was struggling for survival during evolution. That must be the time many carnivores must have targeted him as the primates including man were weak bodied comparitively. He became social as the time progressed.
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India brotherbear Offline
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#56

(11-05-2016, 07:00 PM)parvez Wrote:
(11-05-2016, 05:30 PM)brotherbear Wrote: Two or three years ago, I watched a nature documentary about leopards. This particular program showed leopards of various locations of Africa and Asia. When speaking of the leopards of the tropical African Congo region, the statement was made that of all the creatures of the jungle, the only animal that a leopard fears is the chimpanzee. They went on to say that a troop of chimps can remove a leopard from their territory. 
It is my opinion that when a leopard discovers a lone chimpanzee, the great ape has little chance of survival. But, in mass, the chimps are a force to be reckoned with.

Hi brother bear, man must have been solitary at the time he was struggling for survival during evolution. That must be the time many carnivores must have targeted him as the primates including man were weak bodied comparitively. He became social as the time progressed.

Hi parvez. Our early ancestors could neither outfight nor outrun wild dogs, hyenas, or the big cats. They ( Australopiticus ) had not yet developed weapons. My theory, despite the fact that no one agrees, is that they had an audacious body odor. Perhaps enough that they were not a predators first choice of a meal.
 Grizzly  - Boss of the Woods.
        
  
             
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India parvez Offline
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#57

(11-05-2016, 07:09 PM)brotherbear Wrote:
(11-05-2016, 07:00 PM)parvez Wrote:
(11-05-2016, 05:30 PM)brotherbear Wrote: Two or three years ago, I watched a nature documentary about leopards. This particular program showed leopards of various locations of Africa and Asia. When speaking of the leopards of the tropical African Congo region, the statement was made that of all the creatures of the jungle, the only animal that a leopard fears is the chimpanzee. They went on to say that a troop of chimps can remove a leopard from their territory. 
It is my opinion that when a leopard discovers a lone chimpanzee, the great ape has little chance of survival. But, in mass, the chimps are a force to be reckoned with.

Hi brother bear, man must have been solitary at the time he was struggling for survival during evolution. That must be the time many carnivores must have targeted him as the primates including man were weak bodied comparitively. He became social as the time progressed.

Hi parvez. Our early ancestors could neither outfight nor outrun wild dogs, hyenas, or the big cats. They ( Australopiticus ) had not yet developed weapons. My theory, despite the fact that no one agrees, is that they had an audacious body odor. Perhaps enough that they were not a predators first choice of a meal.

Yes, you may be right brotherbear, even now during long times of insecured feeling, struggling etc. man's body has a strange stinky smell. During similar conditions during evolution the same must be the case. That may be the case why humans may be alive today. Or else they may have been extinct. No one knows the truth as to what happened. Perhaps there were some carnivores that may have killed us for game too like wild dogs i suppose.
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United States Polar Offline
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#58

(11-05-2016, 07:09 PM)brotherbear Wrote:
(11-05-2016, 07:00 PM)parvez Wrote:
(11-05-2016, 05:30 PM)brotherbear Wrote: Two or three years ago, I watched a nature documentary about leopards. This particular program showed leopards of various locations of Africa and Asia. When speaking of the leopards of the tropical African Congo region, the statement was made that of all the creatures of the jungle, the only animal that a leopard fears is the chimpanzee. They went on to say that a troop of chimps can remove a leopard from their territory. 
It is my opinion that when a leopard discovers a lone chimpanzee, the great ape has little chance of survival. But, in mass, the chimps are a force to be reckoned with.

Hi brother bear, man must have been solitary at the time he was struggling for survival during evolution. That must be the time many carnivores must have targeted him as the primates including man were weak bodied comparitively. He became social as the time progressed.

Hi parvez. Our early ancestors could neither outfight nor outrun wild dogs, hyenas, or the big cats. They ( Australopiticus ) had not yet developed weapons. My theory, despite the fact that no one agrees, is that they had an audacious body odor. Perhaps enough that they were not a predators first choice of a meal.

Humans actually have a surprising amount of endurance over nearly creature when it comes to running, and when cornered, could fend off/kill the smaller dogs/hyenas with their bare hands (unless there were too many).

But this is assuming the human gets a huge headstart over the canid or hyena, else they quickly catch up to him.

As for big cats and bears (even the smallest species), no way can even the strongest hominid fend or kill them off with bare hands: these two predators were made for grappling unlike primates.

And regarding the early nature of man, I don't think they were ever solitary; all primate species always lived (and live) in groups due to vulnerability and several weaknesses towards many other animals. Is there evidence of the contrary?
"Be the reason someone smiles. Be the reason someone feels loved and believes in the goodness in people."

- Roy T. Bennett
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India parvez Offline
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#59

I learned somewhere that socialization of humans began only around 10000 years if I am right. That's why I assumed they must be solitary. But who knows they may had been living in groups.
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United States Polar Offline
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#60

(11-05-2016, 10:32 PM)parvez Wrote: I learned somewhere that socialization of humans began only around 10000 years if I am right. That's why I assumed they must be solitary. But who knows they may had been living in groups.

I think you've confused it with the start of human agriculture (which, by the way, still isn't a scientifically-proven date): humans and every primate species has always been social, in my opinion.
"Be the reason someone smiles. Be the reason someone feels loved and believes in the goodness in people."

- Roy T. Bennett
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