There is a world somewhere between reality and fiction. Although ignored by many, it is very real and so are those living in it. This forum is about the natural world. Here, wild animals will be heard and respected. The forum offers a glimpse into an unknown world as well as a room with a view on the present and the future. Anyone able to speak on behalf of those living in the emerald forest and the deep blue sea is invited to join.
--- Peter Broekhuijsen ---

  • 12 Vote(s) - 3.83 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
ON THE EDGE OF EXTINCTION - A - THE TIGER (Panthera tigris)

BorneanTiger Offline
Contributor
*****
( This post was last modified: 11-13-2019, 11:21 PM by BorneanTiger )

See this: https://wildfact.com/forum/topic-hybridi...6#pid94496
1 user Likes BorneanTiger's post
Reply

Dennis Offline
Member
**

(11-13-2019, 11:11 AM)BorneanTiger Wrote: Years before the Cat Specialist Group published the classification of 2 subspecies in 2017, this Mexican zoo was in such a rush to find a mate for a male Amur tiger that they got a Bengal tigress to mate with it, and produce a hybrid litter of cubs:

"AUDIO AS INCOMING

1. Various of female Bengal tiger with her cubs inside enclosure

2. Close-up of three cubs resting in hay

3. SOUNDBITE: (Spanish) Felipe Ramirez Sanchez, Jaguar Zoo veterinarian:

"The Siberian tiger species is a species that is in danger of extinction. Currently there are fewer than 2,000 of them in the wild, but there are more in captivity and there are different organisations around the world that are trying make sure this species does not disappear. In this park, we have a (male) Siberian tiger and it's important to us that they reproduce."

4. Various of female tiger cleaning her cubs in their enclosure

5. Mid of cubs

6. SOUNDBITE: (Spanish) Felipe Ramirez Sanchez, Jaguar Zoo veterinarian:

"This litter is the result of the mating of a female Bengal tiger and a male Siberian tiger. Despite being two different subspecies, the cross-mating was done successfully and the cubs are in good condition."

7. Close-up of cub opening its mouth

8. Mid female tiger with cub climbing over her paw

9. Various of cubs with their mother

10. Close-up of cubs

11. Mid of cubs sleeping while mother sits next to them

StorylineGo to top
Jaguar Zoo in southern Mexico has three new members, a litter of half-Bengal, half-Siberian tiger cubs born on 3 April.

The cubs made their public debut on Tuesday.

The zoo, located 43 kilometres (26 miles) south east of the city of Oaxaca, mated their 12-year-old Siberian male tiger named Yagul with an 8-year-old female Bengal tiger, Yaki, to produce the litter of three.

"Despite being from two different subspecies, the cross-mating was done successfully and the cubs are in good condition," said the zoo's veterinarian, Felipe Ramirez Sanchez.

Although the zoo lacks a specific breeding program for the critically endangered Siberian tigers, also known as Amur tigers, Ramirez said that they hope to find a Siberian female to mate with Yagul to produce fully Siberian cubs.

"The Siberian tiger species is a species that is in danger of extinction. Currently there are fewer than 2,000 of them in the wild," he noted, saying also that they will start searching for a Siberian mate in other Mexican zoos. Bengal tigers are more numerous and are only considered threatened," he said.

The relatively small zoo receives around a thousand visitors each week and features 70 animals from 50 different species."





I think the tigress herself is a hybrid between a Siberian and Bengal. After all, they don't really know for sure, she doesn't really look Bengal, more like a mix of both. And Siberian and Bengal tigers are definitely a separate subspecies no doubt about that.. wasn't there are study that showed contrary to the classification of 2 sub species?
1 user Likes Dennis's post
Reply

India Rishi Offline
Moderator
*****
Moderators
( This post was last modified: 11-14-2019, 07:10 AM by Rishi )

(11-13-2019, 11:44 AM)Dennis Wrote:
(11-13-2019, 11:11 AM)BorneanTiger Wrote: Years before the Cat Specialist Group published the classification of 2 subspecies in 2017, this Mexican zoo was in such a rush to find a mate for a male Amur tiger that they got a Bengal tigress to mate with it, and produce a hybrid litter of cubs:

"AUDIO AS INCOMING

1. Various of female Bengal tiger with her cubs inside enclosure

2. Close-up of three cubs resting in hay

3. SOUNDBITE: (Spanish) Felipe Ramirez Sanchez, Jaguar Zoo veterinarian:

"The Siberian tiger species is a species that is in danger of extinction. Currently there are fewer than 2,000 of them in the wild, but there are more in captivity and there are different organisations around the world that are trying make sure this species does not disappear. In this park, we have a (male) Siberian tiger and it's important to us that they reproduce."

4. Various of female tiger cleaning her cubs in their enclosure

5. Mid of cubs

6. SOUNDBITE: (Spanish) Felipe Ramirez Sanchez, Jaguar Zoo veterinarian:

"This litter is the result of the mating of a female Bengal tiger and a male Siberian tiger. Despite being two different subspecies, the cross-mating was done successfully and the cubs are in good condition."

7. Close-up of cub opening its mouth

8. Mid female tiger with cub climbing over her paw

9. Various of cubs with their mother

10. Close-up of cubs

11. Mid of cubs sleeping while mother sits next to them

StorylineGo to top
Jaguar Zoo in southern Mexico has three new members, a litter of half-Bengal, half-Siberian tiger cubs born on 3 April.

The cubs made their public debut on Tuesday.

The zoo, located 43 kilometres (26 miles) south east of the city of Oaxaca, mated their 12-year-old Siberian male tiger named Yagul with an 8-year-old female Bengal tiger, Yaki, to produce the litter of three.

"Despite being from two different subspecies, the cross-mating was done successfully and the cubs are in good condition," said the zoo's veterinarian, Felipe Ramirez Sanchez.

Although the zoo lacks a specific breeding program for the critically endangered Siberian tigers, also known as Amur tigers, Ramirez said that they hope to find a Siberian female to mate with Yagul to produce fully Siberian cubs.

"The Siberian tiger species is a species that is in danger of extinction. Currently there are fewer than 2,000 of them in the wild," he noted, saying also that they will start searching for a Siberian mate in other Mexican zoos. Bengal tigers are more numerous and are only considered threatened," he said.

The relatively small zoo receives around a thousand visitors each week and features 70 animals from 50 different species."





I think the tigress herself is a hybrid between a Siberian and Bengal. After all, they don't really know for sure, she doesn't really look Bengal, more like a mix of both. And Siberian and Bengal tigers are definitely a separate subspecies no doubt about that.. wasn't there are study that showed contrary to the classification of 2 sub species?

Neither of the studies were absolute... The first one argued that all genes were present in all tigers back in the days. It claimed that whatever differences exist today are because of them getting separated from each other due to human interference. If one takes old hunting trophies & museum specimens into consideration, the genetic difference become negligible within the mainland & sundaland subspecies. While they proposed those be considered only subspecies, there is still a good chance that Mainland & Sundaland are two broader clades (like lions have Northern & Southern), with several closely related subspecies falling under the two groups.
The second "study" just picked few number of zoo tigers at random & "proved" that all tiger subspecies are genetically different. 

Anyways, the concept of clades & subspecies are all human constructs. Whatever is the level of differences between them, we need to consider them separate and protect them accordingly. Scientific studies are often proven wrong or incomplete in future and we can't risk producing genetic-cocktails based on a single hypothesis. Even within the Bengal subspecies that is spread over a large area, regional variations are clearly visible.
1 user Likes Rishi's post
Reply

Netherlands peter Offline
Expert & Researcher
*****
Moderators
( This post was last modified: 11-14-2019, 04:41 AM by peter )

BORNEAN TIGER

This thread, apart from a few exceptions, is about wild tigers, not captive tigers. It would be appreciated if you can move your post to a more suiting thread.

If you do, add recent information about the number of wild Amur tigers in order to prevent confusion. There are 550-600 wild Amur tigers in Russia and a few dozen in the northeastern part of China.
1 user Likes peter's post
Reply

BorneanTiger Offline
Contributor
*****

(11-13-2019, 04:25 PM)peter Wrote: BORNEAN TIGER

This thread, apart from a few exceptions, is about wild tigers, not about captive tigers. It would be appreciated if you can move your post to a more suiting thread.

If you do, add recent information about the number of wild Amur tigers in order to prevent confusion. There are 550-600 wild Amur tigers in Russia and a few dozen in the northeastern part of China.

Done: https://wildfact.com/forum/topic-hybridi...6#pid94496
1 user Likes BorneanTiger's post
Reply

Guatemala GuateGojira Offline
Expert & Researcher
*****

(11-11-2019, 09:39 PM)BorneanTiger Wrote: What I meant was that Bornean natives revere the tiger in a similar way as say people in Western and Central Asia (where the Caspian tiger occurred) revere the tiger, as if the Bornean tiger was an animal that occurred recently, like the Caspian tiger. The Caspian tiger lives on the art and literature of Western and Central Asia, and likewise, the Bornean tiger is ritually revered by Bornean natives, as pointed out by myself and Phatio earlier. To quote Wijaya of Mongabay: https://news.mongabay.com/2016/11/was-bo...of-tigers/

"One recent morning I paid a visit to Iber Djamal, a leader of the Dayak Ngaju indigenous people. He had invited us to see his mandau, a traditional Dayak weapon. When I saw the mandau, which is a kind of machete, my attention focused not on the blade but on the fangs adorning it. What surprised me was that they were said to be tiger fangs. “These are tiger fangs, not leopard fangs,” Iber said. “The fangs that decorate this mandau are from the animals that have been killed by the weapons inherited from my ancestors. Besides tigers, there are crocodiles, bears, leopards and boars.”

“What kind of tiger was killed with this mandau?”

“A tiger in Kalimantan. It was killed by my ancestor. There used to be tigers in Kalimantan.”


*This image is copyright of its original author

*This image is copyright of its original author

Iber Djamal shows off the tiger fangs on his mandau. Photo by Jemmie Delvian

Iber’s explanation certainly differs from the general understanding about tigers in Kalimantan, the Indonesian part of Borneo island. Iber said that the tiger — called harimau in Indonesian and haramaung in Dayak Ngaju — was one of the animals most commonly hunted by his ancestors.
“We believe that if a man can hunt and kill a tiger when his wife is pregnant, the child will grow up to be a king or a leader,” he said. If a mandau is adorned with tiger fangs, it will endow whomever wields it with courage. “Maybe because they’re worth so much to some people, tigers in Kalimantan have been hunted to extinction,” he said. He added that if anyone in his tribe ever found a tiger, it wouldn’t be hunted, “because these animals need to be protected.”"






The Caspian tiger featured on Azerbaijani stamps: http://www.azermarka.az/en/1994.php?suba...cat=10&

*This image is copyright of its original author

*This image is copyright of its original author

*This image is copyright of its original author

*This image is copyright of its original author


By contrast, we only know of the prehistoric Ngandong, Wanhsien and Trinil tigers and the Longdan 'tigrine' cat from fossils, and it was only after the discovery of their fossils that they have come to dominate the imagination of people, whereas the memory of the Bornean and Caspian tigers have been kept alive, even without having to dig up fossils, so it appears that the Bornean tiger was an animal that occurred recently, like its Caspian, Javan and Balinese relatives, and that the reason for its extinction was the same as that of those tigers: persecution by humans.

What @phatio posted earlier which IMO destroys the likelihood that the Bornean tiger became extinct at the end of the Pleistocene (we don't have skins of the Ngandong, Wanhsien and Trinil tigers and Longdan tigrine cat, at least none that we know of, unless say a frozen Wanhsien tiger is discovered, like for those Upper Pleistocene Eurasian cave lion cubs): https://wildfact.com/forum/topic-on-the-...s?page=146

Thank you for the information, and believe me that I am very open-mind about the existence in Borneo, but what Dr Hunter said in his book is also correct. Let's face it, there is no concrete evidence of the existance of the tiger in Borneo in modern times. There are "stories" about ancestors killing tigers in the area, but until someone can take a DNA test or make a Carbone 14 test on those canines or skins that the people still have, we can't be sure if the animals were as modern as they claim or if there were not introduced specimens, been a live animal killed in the island or just brough the canine/skins with them from the mainland or the other Sunda islands.

We can be sure that tigers did lived in Borneo in the Pleistocene at least, but if we base only in culture, many errors can be derived, as lions in Malayan region, dragons in China or even Yetis in the Himalayas. We do need genetic and quimical test to be sure about the true identity of those relics kept by the people of the island.
1 user Likes GuateGojira's post
Reply

BorneanTiger Offline
Contributor
*****
( This post was last modified: 12-03-2019, 10:29 PM by BorneanTiger )

(11-18-2019, 12:57 PM)GuateGojira Wrote:
(11-11-2019, 09:39 PM)BorneanTiger Wrote: What I meant was that Bornean natives revere the tiger in a similar way as say people in Western and Central Asia (where the Caspian tiger occurred) revere the tiger, as if the Bornean tiger was an animal that occurred recently, like the Caspian tiger. The Caspian tiger lives on the art and literature of Western and Central Asia, and likewise, the Bornean tiger is ritually revered by Bornean natives, as pointed out by myself and Phatio earlier. To quote Wijaya of Mongabay: https://news.mongabay.com/2016/11/was-bo...of-tigers/

"One recent morning I paid a visit to Iber Djamal, a leader of the Dayak Ngaju indigenous people. He had invited us to see his mandau, a traditional Dayak weapon. When I saw the mandau, which is a kind of machete, my attention focused not on the blade but on the fangs adorning it. What surprised me was that they were said to be tiger fangs. “These are tiger fangs, not leopard fangs,” Iber said. “The fangs that decorate this mandau are from the animals that have been killed by the weapons inherited from my ancestors. Besides tigers, there are crocodiles, bears, leopards and boars.”

“What kind of tiger was killed with this mandau?”

“A tiger in Kalimantan. It was killed by my ancestor. There used to be tigers in Kalimantan.”


*This image is copyright of its original author

*This image is copyright of its original author

Iber Djamal shows off the tiger fangs on his mandau. Photo by Jemmie Delvian

Iber’s explanation certainly differs from the general understanding about tigers in Kalimantan, the Indonesian part of Borneo island. Iber said that the tiger — called harimau in Indonesian and haramaung in Dayak Ngaju — was one of the animals most commonly hunted by his ancestors.
“We believe that if a man can hunt and kill a tiger when his wife is pregnant, the child will grow up to be a king or a leader,” he said. If a mandau is adorned with tiger fangs, it will endow whomever wields it with courage. “Maybe because they’re worth so much to some people, tigers in Kalimantan have been hunted to extinction,” he said. He added that if anyone in his tribe ever found a tiger, it wouldn’t be hunted, “because these animals need to be protected.”"






The Caspian tiger featured on Azerbaijani stamps: http://www.azermarka.az/en/1994.php?suba...cat=10&

*This image is copyright of its original author

*This image is copyright of its original author

*This image is copyright of its original author

*This image is copyright of its original author


By contrast, we only know of the prehistoric Ngandong, Wanhsien and Trinil tigers and the Longdan 'tigrine' cat from fossils, and it was only after the discovery of their fossils that they have come to dominate the imagination of people, whereas the memory of the Bornean and Caspian tigers have been kept alive, even without having to dig up fossils, so it appears that the Bornean tiger was an animal that occurred recently, like its Caspian, Javan and Balinese relatives, and that the reason for its extinction was the same as that of those tigers: persecution by humans.

What @phatio posted earlier which IMO destroys the likelihood that the Bornean tiger became extinct at the end of the Pleistocene (we don't have skins of the Ngandong, Wanhsien and Trinil tigers and Longdan tigrine cat, at least none that we know of, unless say a frozen Wanhsien tiger is discovered, like for those Upper Pleistocene Eurasian cave lion cubs): https://wildfact.com/forum/topic-on-the-...s?page=146

Thank you for the information, and believe me that I am very open-mind about the existence in Borneo, but what Dr Hunter said in his book is also correct. Let's face it, there is no concrete evidence of the existance of the tiger in Borneo in modern times. There are "stories" about ancestors killing tigers in the area, but until someone can take a DNA test or make a Carbone 14 test on those canines or skins that the people still have, we can't be sure if the animals were as modern as they claim or if there were not introduced specimens, been a live animal killed in the island or just brough the canine/skins with them from the mainland or the other Sunda islands.

We can be sure that tigers did lived in Borneo in the Pleistocene at least, but if we base only in culture, many errors can be derived, as lions in Malayan region, dragons in China or even Yetis in the Himalayas. We do need genetic and quimical test to be sure about the true identity of those relics kept by the people of the island.

Not just natives, we also have at least 1 notable foreigner, who can be considered to be a predecessor of the likes of Jeff Corwin and Steve Irwin, who claimed to have seen this mysterious tiger. Thus part of solving the puzzle might be getting access to this book by Douchan Gersi, who claimed to have seen a tiger in East Kalimantan, and published two photographs to support his statement: https://books.google.com/books?id=wUPvHA...edir_esc=y

Douchan Gersi:

*This image is copyright of its original author


Though the Bornean tiger is assumed to have been rather small like its Sumatran relative, it was also considered by natives to have been largely brown in colour with faint stripes, whereas Sumatran tigers tend to have thick stripes on their torsos: https://books.google.com/books?redir_esc...er&f=falsehttps://www.researchgate.net/publication..._existence

Sumatran tigers:

Tierpark Berlin, Captain Herbert

*This image is copyright of its original author


San Antonio Zoo, Texas, Greverod

*This image is copyright of its original author


Mehgan Murphy:

*This image is copyright of its original author
1 user Likes BorneanTiger's post
Reply

johnny rex Offline
Wildanimal Enthusiast
***

Does anyone know the dry weight of tiger femur or bear femur?
1 user Likes johnny rex's post
Reply

Guatemala GuateGojira Offline
Expert & Researcher
*****

(11-19-2019, 02:05 PM)BorneanTiger Wrote: Not just natives, we also have at least 1 notable foreigner, who can be considered to be a predecessor of the likes of Jeff Corwin and Steve Irwin, who claimed to have seen this mysterious tiger. Thus part of solving the puzzle might be getting access to this book by Douchan Gersi, who claimed to have seen a tiger in East Kalimantan, and published two photographs to support his statement: https://books.google.com/books?id=wUPvHA...edir_esc=y

Douchan Gersi:

*This image is copyright of its original author

*This image is copyright of its original author

Though the Bornean tiger is assumed to have been rather small like its Sumatran relative, it was also considered by natives to have been largely brown in colour with faint stripes, whereas Sumatran tigers tend to have thick stripes on their torsos: https://books.google.com/books?redir_esc...er&f=falsehttps://www.researchgate.net/publication..._existence

Very interesting, then there is a report from a western about a posible Borneo tiger in modern times! That is good, but let's remember that there is not guaranty that they did exist. People still confuse leopards for tigers in Java and the Caucasus, so I imagine that they can also confuse a Clouded leopard with an small tiger in the dark jungles of Borneo.

Interesting is that the Borneo tiger is described as a dark, almoust brown tiger species with faint stripes. This is completelly diferent from any other tiger description in mainland and the Sunda. I guess it will look like a tiger full of dirt and mud, just like some pictures of Sundarbans tigers.
3 users Like GuateGojira's post
Reply

United Kingdom Sully Offline
Ecology & Rewilding
*****

India’s tiger reserves are browning and drying: study

  • A vegetation assessment of India’s tiger reserves suggests that the elevated protection status of reserves alone is insufficient in preserving the vegetation conditions.
  • The study finds extensive browning and drying of vegetation in over 50% of the 29 tiger reserves assessed.
  • Just less than 50% TRs fared better in vegetation condition than the wildlife sanctuaries the TRs were compared to.
  • The main limitation of the study is it uses only remote-sensed data without incorporating any data based on the on-ground situation, other researchers said.
https://india.mongabay.com/2019/11/indias-tiger-reserves-are-browning-and-drying/
3 users Like Sully's post
Reply

BorneanTiger Offline
Contributor
*****

(11-19-2019, 02:05 PM)BorneanTiger Wrote:
(11-18-2019, 12:57 PM)GuateGojira Wrote:
(11-11-2019, 09:39 PM)BorneanTiger Wrote: What I meant was that Bornean natives revere the tiger in a similar way as say people in Western and Central Asia (where the Caspian tiger occurred) revere the tiger, as if the Bornean tiger was an animal that occurred recently, like the Caspian tiger. The Caspian tiger lives on the art and literature of Western and Central Asia, and likewise, the Bornean tiger is ritually revered by Bornean natives, as pointed out by myself and Phatio earlier. To quote Wijaya of Mongabay: https://news.mongabay.com/2016/11/was-bo...of-tigers/

"One recent morning I paid a visit to Iber Djamal, a leader of the Dayak Ngaju indigenous people. He had invited us to see his mandau, a traditional Dayak weapon. When I saw the mandau, which is a kind of machete, my attention focused not on the blade but on the fangs adorning it. What surprised me was that they were said to be tiger fangs. “These are tiger fangs, not leopard fangs,” Iber said. “The fangs that decorate this mandau are from the animals that have been killed by the weapons inherited from my ancestors. Besides tigers, there are crocodiles, bears, leopards and boars.”

“What kind of tiger was killed with this mandau?”

“A tiger in Kalimantan. It was killed by my ancestor. There used to be tigers in Kalimantan.”


*This image is copyright of its original author

*This image is copyright of its original author

Iber Djamal shows off the tiger fangs on his mandau. Photo by Jemmie Delvian

Iber’s explanation certainly differs from the general understanding about tigers in Kalimantan, the Indonesian part of Borneo island. Iber said that the tiger — called harimau in Indonesian and haramaung in Dayak Ngaju — was one of the animals most commonly hunted by his ancestors.
“We believe that if a man can hunt and kill a tiger when his wife is pregnant, the child will grow up to be a king or a leader,” he said. If a mandau is adorned with tiger fangs, it will endow whomever wields it with courage. “Maybe because they’re worth so much to some people, tigers in Kalimantan have been hunted to extinction,” he said. He added that if anyone in his tribe ever found a tiger, it wouldn’t be hunted, “because these animals need to be protected.”"






The Caspian tiger featured on Azerbaijani stamps: http://www.azermarka.az/en/1994.php?suba...cat=10&

*This image is copyright of its original author

*This image is copyright of its original author

*This image is copyright of its original author

*This image is copyright of its original author


By contrast, we only know of the prehistoric Ngandong, Wanhsien and Trinil tigers and the Longdan 'tigrine' cat from fossils, and it was only after the discovery of their fossils that they have come to dominate the imagination of people, whereas the memory of the Bornean and Caspian tigers have been kept alive, even without having to dig up fossils, so it appears that the Bornean tiger was an animal that occurred recently, like its Caspian, Javan and Balinese relatives, and that the reason for its extinction was the same as that of those tigers: persecution by humans.

What @phatio posted earlier which IMO destroys the likelihood that the Bornean tiger became extinct at the end of the Pleistocene (we don't have skins of the Ngandong, Wanhsien and Trinil tigers and Longdan tigrine cat, at least none that we know of, unless say a frozen Wanhsien tiger is discovered, like for those Upper Pleistocene Eurasian cave lion cubs): https://wildfact.com/forum/topic-on-the-...s?page=146

Thank you for the information, and believe me that I am very open-mind about the existence in Borneo, but what Dr Hunter said in his book is also correct. Let's face it, there is no concrete evidence of the existance of the tiger in Borneo in modern times. There are "stories" about ancestors killing tigers in the area, but until someone can take a DNA test or make a Carbone 14 test on those canines or skins that the people still have, we can't be sure if the animals were as modern as they claim or if there were not introduced specimens, been a live animal killed in the island or just brough the canine/skins with them from the mainland or the other Sunda islands.

We can be sure that tigers did lived in Borneo in the Pleistocene at least, but if we base only in culture, many errors can be derived, as lions in Malayan region, dragons in China or even Yetis in the Himalayas. We do need genetic and quimical test to be sure about the true identity of those relics kept by the people of the island.

Not just natives, we also have at least 1 notable foreigner, who can be considered to be a predecessor of the likes of Jeff Corwin and Steve Irwin, who claimed to have seen this mysterious tiger. Thus part of solving the puzzle might be getting access to this book by Douchan Gersi, who claimed to have seen a tiger in East Kalimantan, and published two photographs to support his statement: https://books.google.com/books?id=wUPvHA...edir_esc=y

Douchan Gersi:

*This image is copyright of its original author


Though the Bornean tiger is assumed to have been rather small like its Sumatran relative, it was also considered by natives to have been largely brown in colour with faint stripes, whereas Sumatran tigers tend to have thick stripes on their torsos: https://books.google.com/books?redir_esc...er&f=falsehttps://www.researchgate.net/publication..._existence

Sumatran tigers:

Tierpark Berlin, Captain Herbert

*This image is copyright of its original author


San Antonio Zoo, Texas, Greverod

*This image is copyright of its original author


Mehgan Murphy:

*This image is copyright of its original author

This picture by @smedz in Nature & Animal Art comes close to the description of the Bornean tiger having faint stripes, I hope:

*This image is copyright of its original author


Aside from that, a Central Indian tiger made news by undertaking the longest walk ever recorded in India, travelling some 1,300km (807 miles) between Tipeshwar Tiger Reserve in Maharashtra State and Telangana, in 5 months: https://wildfact.com/forum/topic-bigcats...9#pid95749
Reply

United Kingdom Sully Offline
Ecology & Rewilding
*****

Saving Malaysian tigers

https://www.panthera.org/blog/2019/12/06...e-malaysia
4 users Like Sully's post
Reply

United States Greatearth Offline
Regular Member
***
( This post was last modified: 12-25-2019, 02:37 AM by Greatearth )

About situation in Laos, I think the media is mainly mentioned Nam Et-Phou Louey National Protected Area. From last year paper, I think I read tigers are still alive in different area of Laos since I heard locals are getting paid higher money by tourists after they observed wild tigers. Indochinese tigers are probably still alive in these areas. Apparently, Chota Munna in Kanha seemd to be poached too most likely. Sad situation of Southeast Asia thanks to British, French, Portugal, Japan, and other colonial countries caused all of problems. And Vietnamese and Chinese are eating those animals today. Even worse, primitive vietnamse is keep moving another southeast Asia to poach other Indochinese tigers and Malayan tigers. Today's conservation logic is nonsense. They only think about simple ignorant logic as poaching and blaming poor villagers trying to survive. About palm oil problems in Indonesia and Malaysia. I hear in internet and zoo are keep talking about not buying palm oil products. However, do they ever realize huge Chinese market? Palm oil is not even illegal, and palm oil products are selling as much larger than traditional medicine. How are they going to ban palm oil products from just talking in public? The problem is even cookies, ice creams, and cakes are even using by palm oil. I am sure everyone in here eating those. So how is it possible to stop palm oil products?
2 users Like Greatearth's post
Reply

United States Greatearth Offline
Regular Member
***

#2,356

Peter, what's your opinion on the largest leopard subspecies and largest leopard population? I don't think I should discuss leopard here, but I heard African leopards are larger than Indian leopards in general. Persian leopards are often believed as the largest leopard subspecies, but African leopards in western and central Africa living in rainforest seemed larger than Persian leopards. Persian leopards don't really have size variation throughout its range map unlike African leopards. Persian leopards are once coexist with much larger and stronger Caspian tigers. They could be smaller in past.
1 user Likes Greatearth's post
Reply

United States Greatearth Offline
Regular Member
***

I wish users in wildfact speak about different tiger subspecies such as the Chinese tiger, Indochinese tiger, Malayan tiger, Sumatran tiger, and extinct tiger subspecies instead of keep talking about the same topic on the Siberian tiger: their size, why they became smaller in size today, their populations, interaction with brown bears, and other things about Siberian tigers. Anyway, I have some topic to discuss on the northern Bengal tigers. I am dubious about those tigers are really larger than central Bengal tigers. I think it is just northern Bengal tiger fanboys are spreading rumor on those tigers are ultimate tigers. I saw fanboys were saying single northern Bengal tiger in Terai and Assam can take down the largest known prehistoric felidae, short faced bear, and even asiatic elephant. However, only reliable source of those tigers (Terai and Assam) are the Smithsonian tiger project in Chitwan. And two largest tigers, Sauraha (M105) and M126 were around 227~272 kg (272 kg was something inside of stomach). Sauraha seems to be 261 kg with empty stomach when he measured the last time, but he was bottomed 227 kg when he measured in 1974-1975. Sauraha was 198 cm from heady to body, 310 cm including his tail from what I know. He was similar in size to other largest tigers in Kanha, Bandhavgarh, ...etc. Assam tigers seemed larger in pictures because of their belly. The same as people think Wagdoh is the largest because he has massive body. However, I don't believe Assam tigers are longer and taller. They just have bulky and fat body since they are living in good areas and huge prey (Kaziranga and other places in Assam are the only places in India that allowing rangers to shot poachers). Northern Bengal tigers seemed to be larger if we add old data, but those data can't be trusted 100% if we compared to measurement from modern days by scientists. And many of huge size tigers were probably gorged when they were hunted/measured. Their overall sizes on length and height are similar to the largest tigers in other parts of India. Even Bachelor of Powalgarh was 323 cm long. However, I don't know if it was over curve or between the pegs. The measured data of todays' Himalayan tigers in Bhutan is no larger than tigers in central India. Thus, northern Bengal tigers are obviously similar in size as tigers in Bandhavgarh, Tadoba, Kanha, ...etc.

I don't know about tigers in western India in Ranthambore and Sariska. They look slim and lighter, but I don't know about length and height.

Indochinese tigers and Malayan tigers seemed very interesting too. Even though many Indochina to Malay Peninsula are similar rainforest, but they seemed to have different body sizes and appearance. However, I don't really have any old/today data of these tigers.
1 user Likes Greatearth's post
Reply






Users browsing this thread:
1 Guest(s)

About Us
Go Social     Subscribe  

Welcome to WILDFACT forum, a website that focuses on sharing the joy that wildlife has on offer. We welcome all wildlife lovers to join us in sharing that joy. As a member you can share your research, knowledge and experience on animals with the community.
wildfact.com is intended to serve as an online resource for wildlife lovers of all skill levels from beginners to professionals and from all fields that belong to wildlife anyhow. Our focus area is wild animals from all over world. Content generated here will help showcase the work of wildlife experts and lovers to the world. We believe by the help of your informative article and content we will succeed to educate the world, how these beautiful animals are important to survival of all man kind.
Many thanks for visiting wildfact.com. We hope you will keep visiting wildfact regularly and will refer other members who have passion for wildlife.

Forum software by © MyBB