There is a world somewhere between reality and fiction. Although ignored by many, it is very real and so are those living in it. This forum is about the natural world. Here, wild animals will be heard and respected. The forum offers a glimpse into an unknown world as well as a room with a view on the present and the future. Anyone able to speak on behalf of those living in the emerald forest and the deep blue sea is invited to join.
--- Peter Broekhuijsen ---

  • 12 Vote(s) - 3.83 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
ON THE EDGE OF EXTINCTION - A - THE TIGER (Panthera tigris)

United States RakeshMondal Offline
Member
**

Hagenbeck zoo, 1999. Huge male amur tiger.


*This image is copyright of its original author



*This image is copyright of its original author
8 users Like RakeshMondal's post
Reply

Finland Shadow Offline
Moderator
*****
Moderators

Interview of Peter Jackson from 2000. Jackson was the longtime chairman of Cat Specialist Group and one very important person in conservation of wildlife.


*This image is copyright of its original author


Quote: "Born in London on January 27, 1926, Peter Jackson was recently presented with the Peter Scott Award for Conservation Merit by the IUCN Species Survival Commission. He is also the recipient of the Second International Sálim Ali Award for Conservation from the BNHS. Through a long and eventful life he has been a journalist, naturalist, photographer, conservationist and cat specialist. He is probably among the most knowledgeable experts on wild cats in the world. Deeply concerned, but not over-sentimental about the tiger, the vast proportion of his life has been dedicated to its protection. He speaks to Bittu Sahgal about his lifetime fascination with wildlife and his concern for India's vanishing forests."

https://www.sanctuaryasia.com/component/content/article/137-interviews-archive/606-peter-jackson.html
4 users Like Shadow's post
Reply

United Arab Emirates BorneanTiger Offline
Regular Member
***
( This post was last modified: 08-13-2019, 12:55 PM by BorneanTiger )

Though Live Science mentioned that there is a controversy over how many living subspecies should be recognized, I don't understand how they could have missed out the fact that Bengal tigers are the heaviest wild tigers on average at least, implying that the Siberian tiger is bigger than the Bengal tiger in the wild, even apart from captivity: https://www.livescience.com/27441-tigers.html

"The largest tiger subspecies, the Siberian, also called Amur, are 10.75 feet (3.3 m) long and weigh up to 660 pounds (300 kilograms), according to National Geographic. The smallest tiger is the Sumatran, which weighs 165 - 308 pounds (74 - 139 kg), according to the World Wildlife Fund (WWF). Tigers also have very long tails, which can add around 3 feet (one m) to their overall length, according to Sea World.

Where tigers live and what they eat
Wild tigers live in Asia. Larger subspecies, such as the Siberian tiger, tend to live in northern, colder areas, such as eastern Russia and northeastern China. Smaller subspecies live in southern, warmer countries, such as India, Bangladesh, Nepal, Bhutan, Myanmar, Laos, Cambodia, Vietnam, Malaysia and Indonesia."
3 users Like BorneanTiger's post
Reply

Finland Shadow Offline
Moderator
*****
Moderators
( This post was last modified: 08-13-2019, 01:41 PM by Shadow )

(08-13-2019, 12:54 PM)BorneanTiger Wrote: Though Live Science mentioned that there is a controversy over how many living subspecies should be recognized, I don't understand how they could have missed out the fact that Bengal tigers are the heaviest wild tigers on average at least, implying that the Siberian tiger is bigger than the Bengal tiger in the wild, even apart from captivity: https://www.livescience.com/27441-tigers.html

"The largest tiger subspecies, the Siberian, also called Amur, are 10.75 feet (3.3 m) long and weigh up to 660 pounds (300 kilograms), according to National Geographic. The smallest tiger is the Sumatran, which weighs 165 - 308 pounds (74 - 139 kg), according to the World Wildlife Fund (WWF). Tigers also have very long tails, which can add around 3 feet (one m) to their overall length, according to Sea World.

Where tigers live and what they eat
Wild tigers live in Asia. Larger subspecies, such as the Siberian tiger, tend to live in northern, colder areas, such as eastern Russia and northeastern China. Smaller subspecies live in southern, warmer countries, such as India, Bangladesh, Nepal, Bhutan, Myanmar, Laos, Cambodia, Vietnam, Malaysia and Indonesia."


Well, that article was kind of "rough", not going too deeply in details. Of course when looking at all tigers, captive and wild many think without a doubt, that Siberian tigers are the biggest even though in wild there haven´t been so big ones lately. But when one subspecies has been considered as biggest for at least century or two, it is quite natural that it doesn´t change over night. Who knows if some want to see more studies too before declaring Bengal tigers as biggest. 

In forums like this things happen faster, than in science community, year or five years, even decade can be short time, too short to make big changes to some declarations. Especially if there are indicators, like captive animals, that some short term change can be reversed. It has to be remembered, that wild Siberian tigers were hunted to almost extinction and they have had quite short time to recover. What was situation 1900 was quite different, than it was 1940-1970, then was it 2005 there was one study about tiger sizes in Russia and situation was what it was. It will be really interesting to see if/when there is next study and are results different and what is trend.

Yes, there are good reasons to say, that Bengal tigers have been lately bigger in wild. But is that really so... hopefully we know more one day in near future. I just had some discussion with one biologist involving to tiger conservation and message was, that things and changes in conservation happen slowly. That is one reason why that 2 subspecies suggestion from Cat Specialist Group haven´t had any immediate effects. 

It can have in future if tiger situation changes even to more desperate than it is now, maybe it is now almost there. Anyway what comes to "official statements", changes are slow. I assume, that more information and follow ups are needed to "dethrone" Siberian tiger as biggest of the big. Especially when captive tigers seem to keep up that reputation.
2 users Like Shadow's post
Reply

United Kingdom Megalodon Offline
Banned








8 users Like Megalodon's post
Reply

Guatemala GuateGojira Offline
Expert & Researcher
*****

(08-19-2019, 06:32 PM)Megalodon Wrote:








Great videos, thank you for sharing them!
3 users Like GuateGojira's post
Reply

Netherlands peter Offline
Expert & Researcher
*****
Moderators
( This post was last modified: 08-21-2019, 04:27 PM by peter )

VIDEOS OF CAPTIVE TIGERS

Although dedicated to wild tigers, this thread also has information about captive tigers every now and then. Here's why.

a - Information on the effect of stress on size

Captive tigers can tell us a bit more about the recent history of wild tigers. Let's take Amur tigers for starters. According to nearly all involved in books, Amur tigers are the largest subspecies. Recent (1992-2005) research, however, says adult males (3 years and over) roughly compare (referring to weight and total length measured 'over curves') to Indochinese tigers. Compared to Indian and Nepal tigers, adult males might lack as much as 60-80 pounds (at the level of averages). This although they do not seem to be shorter.

The question, therefore, is if the size of Amur tigers in the recent past has been exaggerated. If not, the question is why wild Amur tigers are smaller than, say, a century ago. Can captive tigers be used to answer these questions? The answer is yes.  

According to those who studied reliable records, wild Amur tigers declined in size after 1970. Are they really smaller than a century ago?

Amur tigers in European zoos (referring to Studbook tigers only) say yes. All captive Amur tigers descend from wild Amur tigers captured in the late forties, fifties and sixties of the last century. Are they large? Based on what I have and saw, I'd say they are the largest captive big cats. By a margin, I might add. 

Can the difference in size be quantified? Yes. If biologists consistently measure and weigh adult and old captive Amur tigers, that is to say. If this becomes a routine, captive Amur tigers can tell us a bit more about the effect of habitat destruction, poaching, a lack of prey animals and stress. 

If wild Amur tigers make a come-back (again) and gain a few inches and pounds, their captive relatives can also tell us a bit more about the effect of food on growth and growth potential.  

b - Captive tigers can be used to revive populations of wild tigers

- Although the number of wild Amur tigers, as a result of the efforts of the Russians, has increased, the situation might change once again. In humans, you just never know. If the situation in Russia deteriorates for some reason and poverty strikes once more, chances are wild Amur tigers will suffer as well. As a new population bottleneck can't be excluded, captive Amur tigers could be used to revive the wild population.

c - Genes

It's well-known that wild Amur tigers suffered from a population bottleneck, but what about tigers in Sumatra, Malaysia and southeast Asia? It's more than likely tigers in these regions were affected by stress as well. 

We know a population bottleneck has an effect on size, but recent research suggests it could have an effect on individual variation as well. In wild tigers, individual variation is quite outspoken. In wild Amur tigers, however, individual variation seems to be more limited. I'm not saying all of them have green ears, but the limited amount of variation is a clear sign of a problem. A problem that, perhaps, can be solved by re-introducing genes of tigers captured in a period in which individual variation could have been more outspoken.

d - Rewilding 
   
I know many are opposed to rewilding captive big cats, but the arguments used are far from convincing. What I know suggests that rewilding big cats is an option that should be considered by all involved in conservation. 

It could take 1-2 generations to produce a wild lion or tiger, but there's plenty of circumstantial evidence suggesting it can be done. My guess is the time has arrived to start a number of projects in different regions. 

e - Captive Amur tigers

Here's another video of the Odense zoo tiger 'Igor'. It was uploaded in 2015. As 'Igor' perished in that year, the signs of old age (he was born in 2002) and disease are very visible in that he lost most of his muscles and is hardly able to walk. I'll try to contact the zoo in order to find out if the skull was preserved. Here's Igor one more time:  
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mfP-eQ4uIa0
5 users Like peter's post
Reply

Finland Shadow Offline
Moderator
*****
Moderators

Interview of Valmik Thapar from 2012. 

Quote: 
"Tiger defender all his life. Author. Filmmaker. Naturalist. Fighter. Television presenter. He has been all these and more. Having lived several lifetimes in one, on the eve of National Wildlife Week 2012, Valmik Thapar speaks to Bittu Sahgal, long-time friend and compatriot, about his life, mission and the very future of India."


*This image is copyright of its original author

Photograph by Gertrud and Helmut Denzau.


*This image is copyright of its original author

Photograph by Valmik Thapar.


*This image is copyright of its original author

Photograph by Valmik Thapar.

Whole interview:
https://www.sanctuaryasia.com/people/interviews/136-interviews/9075-special-interview-with-valmik-thapar.html?fbclid=IwAR3y4AI5spZFyrc4BNMqHsEQWT-W7FxGl73sakPtnY3Hds_L1YSzs7MNn44
5 users Like Shadow's post
Reply

Netherlands peter Offline
Expert & Researcher
*****
Moderators
( This post was last modified: 08-22-2019, 08:14 AM by peter )

(08-21-2019, 08:39 PM)Shadow Wrote: Interview of Valmik Thapar from 2012. 

Quote: 
"Tiger defender all his life. Author. Filmmaker. Naturalist. Fighter. Television presenter. He has been all these and more. Having lived several lifetimes in one, on the eve of National Wildlife Week 2012, Valmik Thapar speaks to Bittu Sahgal, long-time friend and compatriot, about his life, mission and the very future of India."


*This image is copyright of its original author

Photograph by Gertrud and Helmut Denzau.


*This image is copyright of its original author

Photograph by Valmik Thapar.


*This image is copyright of its original author

Photograph by Valmik Thapar.

Whole interview:
https://www.sanctuaryasia.com/people/interviews/136-interviews/9075-special-interview-with-valmik-thapar.html?fbclid=IwAR3y4AI5spZFyrc4BNMqHsEQWT-W7FxGl73sakPtnY3Hds_L1YSzs7MNn44

If a passionate, productive and experienced man like Valmik Thapar, regarding conservation in India, concludes all is lost as a result of the ever-present strive for power, the future looks very bleak indeed.

Although he's convinced things are different in other countries, reality says nearly all use the same system. My guess is it will produce more or less similar results everywhere sooner or later. The only logical outcome of this operation is the production of billions of (human) parodies, a never-ending struggle for power and, in the end, total destruction.    

I saw the first results all around me in western Europe some decades ago, concluded it would never change and decided for music well before I graduated. This decision enabled me to keep in touch with things that, in my opinion, matter. 

It's a great pity human evolution resulted in an eternal race to get to control and status. The system producing just that can only result in a one-dimensional view of life, mono-cultures, spiritual degeneration, overpopulation and, inevitably, destruction. Life is much more than that. Although not religious, I'm convinced humans are able to create things of beauty. I'm also convinced they can protect things that matter. I'm not sure about the home of the Soul of Man, but I keep thinking it's close to the Soul of all Animals. Could be somewhere in a sea of forest yet to be discovered.

One can only hope that those reading the interview will decide to read a bit more about the natural world and conservation. Many of them will no doubt be inspired by the early naturalists and people like Thapar, Ullas karanth, Arseniev, Pikunov, Miquelle, Kerley, Goodrich and countless others dedicating their lives to protect those making their home in the emerald forest and the deep blue sea.
5 users Like peter's post
Reply

United Arab Emirates BorneanTiger Offline
Regular Member
***
( This post was last modified: 08-26-2019, 10:57 PM by BorneanTiger )

(08-21-2019, 07:27 AM)peter Wrote: VIDEOS OF CAPTIVE TIGERS

Although dedicated to wild tigers, this thread also has information about captive tigers every now and then. Here's why.

a - Information on the effect of stress on size

Captive tigers can tell us a bit more about the recent history of wild tigers. Let's take Amur tigers for starters. According to nearly all involved in books, Amur tigers are the largest subspecies. Recent (1992-2005) research, however, says adult males (3 years and over) roughly compare (referring to weight and total length measured 'over curves') to Indochinese tigers. Compared to Indian and Nepal tigers, adult males might lack as much as 60-80 pounds (at the level of averages). This although they do not seem to be shorter.

The question, therefore, is if the size of Amur tigers in the recent past has been exaggerated. If not, the question is why wild Amur tigers are smaller than, say, a century ago. Can captive tigers be used to answer these questions? The answer is yes.  

According to those who studied reliable records, wild Amur tigers declined in size after 1970. Are they really smaller than a century ago?

Amur tigers in European zoos (referring to Studbook tigers only) say yes. All captive Amur tigers descend from wild Amur tigers captured in the late forties, fifties and sixties of the last century. Are they large? Based on what I have and saw, I'd say they are the largest captive big cats. By a margin, I might add. 

Can the difference in size be quantified? Yes. If biologists consistently measure and weigh adult and old captive Amur tigers, that is to say. If this becomes a routine, captive Amur tigers can tell us a bit more about the effect of habitat destruction, poaching, a lack of prey animals and stress. 

If wild Amur tigers make a come-back (again) and gain a few inches and pounds, their captive relatives can also tell us a bit more about the effect of food on growth and growth potential.  

b - Captive tigers can be used to revive populations of wild tigers

- Although the number of wild Amur tigers, as a result of the efforts of the Russians, has increased, the situation might change once again. In humans, you just never know. If the situation in Russia deteriorates for some reason and poverty strikes once more, chances are wild Amur tigers will suffer as well. As a new population bottleneck can't be excluded, captive Amur tigers could be used to revive the wild population.

c - Genes

It's well-known that wild Amur tigers suffered from a population bottleneck, but what about tigers in Sumatra, Malaysia and southeast Asia? It's more than likely tigers in these regions were affected by stress as well. 

We know a population bottleneck has an effect on size, but recent research suggests it could have an effect on individual variation as well. In wild tigers, individual variation is quite outspoken. In wild Amur tigers, however, individual variation seems to be more limited. I'm not saying all of them have green ears, but the limited amount of variation is a clear sign of a problem. A problem that, perhaps, can be solved by re-introducing genes of tigers captured in a period in which individual variation could have been more outspoken.

d - Rewilding 
   
I know many are opposed to rewilding captive big cats, but the arguments used are far from convincing. What I know suggests that rewilding big cats is an option that should be considered by all involved in conservation. 

It could take 1-2 generations to produce a wild lion or tiger, but there's plenty of circumstantial evidence suggesting it can be done. My guess is the time has arrived to start a number of projects in different regions. 

e - Captive Amur tigers

Here's another video of the Odense zoo tiger 'Igor'. It was uploaded in 2015. As 'Igor' perished in that year, the signs of old age (he was born in 2002) and disease are very visible in that he lost most of his muscles and is hardly able to walk. I'll try to contact the zoo in order to find out if the skull was preserved. Here's Igor one more time:  
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mfP-eQ4uIa0

I find it strange that zoos in Europe, Russia or elsewhere would have Amur tigers that are descended from wild tigers caught from the 1940's to the 1960's, or at least putative descendants of types of lions that are extinct in the wild like the Caspian tiger (the Barbary and Cape lions), but not even descendants of the Caspian tiger (the last reliable record being from the Babatag Mountains on the border of Afghanistan and Tajikistan in 1998), considering the huge range in Central and Southwestern Asia that it had. It's not like Caspian tigers were never taken captive, in fact, as I mentioned earlier in this thread, the study of Driscoll et al., which proved the Caspian tiger's close relationship with the Siberian tiger, included a Southwest Asian tiger in Moscow Zoo that was caught in the wilderness of northern Iran, with others being wild tigers from Afghanistan, Uzbekistan, Kazakhstan and China, and there are other cases of captive Caspian tigers (at least from Iran and the Caucasus), that are mentioned here, including some that were kept in German zoos in the 19th and 20th centuries:

Caucasian tiger in Berlin Zoo, 1899: https://web.archive.org/web/200708240914...ger-13.htmhttp://carnivoractionplans1.free.fr/wild...f#page=180https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/animalvs...rFBu7K9adB

*This image is copyright of its original author



*This image is copyright of its original author


*This image is copyright of its original author


Soraya the Persian tigress in Hagenback Zoo: http://www.catsg.org/fileadmin/fileshari...n_Iran.pdf 

*This image is copyright of its original author


*This image is copyright of its original author


How is it possible that a Siberian zoo like that of Novosibirsk could have descendants of the South African Cape lion, or European zoos could have Siberian tigers from the 1940's to the 1960's (when their Caspian relatives were still around) or descendants of the Barbary lion (with Moroccan assistance), or that China and South Africa could have captive South Chinese tigers, but that no zoo in Russia, Europe, Asia or elsewhere has at least one surviving descendant of the Caspian tiger, or are there captive tigers of unknown ancestry?
5 users Like BorneanTiger's post
Reply

Finland Shadow Offline
Moderator
*****
Moderators
( This post was last modified: 08-23-2019, 01:21 PM by Shadow )

One interesting article, this time with the title: The Tiger Pioneers 

[b]Author: Prosenjit Das Gupta, First published in: Sanctuary Asia, Vol. XXXVII No. 6, June 2017.[/b]

This article tells more about those people, who were doing a lot of important work, even though not mentioned as often like Indira Gandhi, Kailash Sankhala, Billy Arjan Singh, Deb Roy or Fateh Singh.

Quote: 
"Those who are involved with wildlife today would do well to read up on the heroes of yesteryears, for it is on their shoulders they stand. These early pioneers not only had to deal with ruthless poachers and antagonism from villagers who saw wildlife conservation as an intrusion into their age old way of life, but also with developers who hated the fact that Prime Minister Indira Gandhi supported such visionaries who pointed out that natural forests and their biodiversity, as represented by the tiger were far more valuable than the revenue earned from timber, which is virtually all that the British foresters of yore had taught foresters for centuries."


*This image is copyright of its original author

Photo Courtesy: Prosenjit Das Gupta. 


*This image is copyright of its original author

Photo Courtesy: Kailash sankhala. 


*This image is copyright of its original author

Photo Courtesy: Prosenjit Das Gupta. 


*This image is copyright of its original author

Photo: Count Hans von Koenigsmarck/public domain. 


*This image is copyright of its original author

Photo Courtesy: Raza Kazmi. 


*This image is copyright of its original author

Photo Courtesy: Prosenjit Das Gupta. 

Another quote:
"They used plain common sense and many went on to contribute materially to research on wildlife, which provided the foundation for scores of subsequent studies. Now that Project Tiger is nearing its 44th anniversary, a new generation of wildlife protectors would do well to remember the pioneers of yore, before they fade entirely from public – and my personal – memory."

Whole article, really worth to read, imo: https://www.sanctuaryasia.com/people/in-remembrance/10663-the-tiger-pioneers.html

Edit: When you read original article, put cursor over photo to get more information what is in each photo, information box appears like that.
3 users Like Shadow's post
Reply

Germany Lycaon Offline
Regular Member
***

A skin of a caspian tiger in iran


*This image is copyright of its original author


A captive caspian tiger I think 


*This image is copyright of its original author


Unfortunately I could not find any additional info on both .
5 users Like Lycaon's post
Reply

United Arab Emirates BorneanTiger Offline
Regular Member
***
( This post was last modified: 08-27-2019, 11:39 AM by BorneanTiger )

(08-22-2019, 10:51 PM)BorneanTiger Wrote:
(08-21-2019, 07:27 AM)peter Wrote: VIDEOS OF CAPTIVE TIGERS

Although dedicated to wild tigers, this thread also has information about captive tigers every now and then. Here's why.

a - Information on the effect of stress on size

Captive tigers can tell us a bit more about the recent history of wild tigers. Let's take Amur tigers for starters. According to nearly all involved in books, Amur tigers are the largest subspecies. Recent (1992-2005) research, however, says adult males (3 years and over) roughly compare (referring to weight and total length measured 'over curves') to Indochinese tigers. Compared to Indian and Nepal tigers, adult males might lack as much as 60-80 pounds (at the level of averages). This although they do not seem to be shorter.

The question, therefore, is if the size of Amur tigers in the recent past has been exaggerated. If not, the question is why wild Amur tigers are smaller than, say, a century ago. Can captive tigers be used to answer these questions? The answer is yes.  

According to those who studied reliable records, wild Amur tigers declined in size after 1970. Are they really smaller than a century ago?

Amur tigers in European zoos (referring to Studbook tigers only) say yes. All captive Amur tigers descend from wild Amur tigers captured in the late forties, fifties and sixties of the last century. Are they large? Based on what I have and saw, I'd say they are the largest captive big cats. By a margin, I might add. 

Can the difference in size be quantified? Yes. If biologists consistently measure and weigh adult and old captive Amur tigers, that is to say. If this becomes a routine, captive Amur tigers can tell us a bit more about the effect of habitat destruction, poaching, a lack of prey animals and stress. 

If wild Amur tigers make a come-back (again) and gain a few inches and pounds, their captive relatives can also tell us a bit more about the effect of food on growth and growth potential.  

b - Captive tigers can be used to revive populations of wild tigers

- Although the number of wild Amur tigers, as a result of the efforts of the Russians, has increased, the situation might change once again. In humans, you just never know. If the situation in Russia deteriorates for some reason and poverty strikes once more, chances are wild Amur tigers will suffer as well. As a new population bottleneck can't be excluded, captive Amur tigers could be used to revive the wild population.

c - Genes

It's well-known that wild Amur tigers suffered from a population bottleneck, but what about tigers in Sumatra, Malaysia and southeast Asia? It's more than likely tigers in these regions were affected by stress as well. 

We know a population bottleneck has an effect on size, but recent research suggests it could have an effect on individual variation as well. In wild tigers, individual variation is quite outspoken. In wild Amur tigers, however, individual variation seems to be more limited. I'm not saying all of them have green ears, but the limited amount of variation is a clear sign of a problem. A problem that, perhaps, can be solved by re-introducing genes of tigers captured in a period in which individual variation could have been more outspoken.

d - Rewilding 
   
I know many are opposed to rewilding captive big cats, but the arguments used are far from convincing. What I know suggests that rewilding big cats is an option that should be considered by all involved in conservation. 

It could take 1-2 generations to produce a wild lion or tiger, but there's plenty of circumstantial evidence suggesting it can be done. My guess is the time has arrived to start a number of projects in different regions. 

e - Captive Amur tigers

Here's another video of the Odense zoo tiger 'Igor'. It was uploaded in 2015. As 'Igor' perished in that year, the signs of old age (he was born in 2002) and disease are very visible in that he lost most of his muscles and is hardly able to walk. I'll try to contact the zoo in order to find out if the skull was preserved. Here's Igor one more time:  
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mfP-eQ4uIa0

I find it strange that zoos in Europe, Russia or elsewhere would have Amur tigers that are descended from wild tigers caught from the 1940's to the 1960's, or at least putative descendants of types of lions that are extinct in the wild like the Caspian tiger (the Barbary and Cape lions), but not even descendants of the Caspian tiger (the last reliable record being from the Babatag Mountains on the border of Afghanistan and Tajikistan in 1998), considering the huge range in Central and Southwestern Asia that it had. It's not like Caspian tigers were never taken captive, in fact, as I mentioned earlier in this thread, the study of Driscoll et al., which proved the Caspian tiger's close relationship with the Siberian tiger, included a Southwest Asian tiger in Moscow Zoo that was caught in the wilderness of northern Iran, with others being wild tigers from Afghanistan, Uzbekistan, Kazakhstan and China, and there are other cases of captive Caspian tigers (at least from Iran and the Caucasus), that are mentioned here, including some that were kept in German zoos in the 19th and 20th centuries:

Caucasian tiger in Berlin Zoo, 1899: https://web.archive.org/web/200708240914...ger-13.htmhttp://carnivoractionplans1.free.fr/wild...f#page=180https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/animalvs...rFBu7K9adB

*This image is copyright of its original author



*This image is copyright of its original author


*This image is copyright of its original author


Soraya the Persian tigress in Hagenback Zoo: http://www.catsg.org/fileadmin/fileshari...n_Iran.pdf 

*This image is copyright of its original author


*This image is copyright of its original author


How is it possible that a Siberian zoo like that of Novosibirsk could have descendants of the South African Cape lion, or European zoos could have Siberian tigers from the 1940's to the 1960's (when their Caspian relatives were still around) or descendants of the Barbary lion (with Moroccan assistance), or that China and South Africa could have captive South Chinese tigers, but that no zoo in Russia, Europe, Asia or elsewhere has at least one surviving descendant of the Caspian tiger, or are there captive tigers of unknown ancestry?

As I mentioned here, after @Lycaon posted a picture of a Cape lion in Hagenbeck Zoo (where Soraya the Persian tigress was hosted in the 20th century), I decided to research Hagenbeck Zoo, and I noticed that it was founded by a man of the same name who imported exotic animals (like his father Carl Hagenbeck Senior), including Amur, Bengal, Indochinese and Sumatran tigers, and Barbary and Cape lions: https://books.google.com/books?hl=ar&id=...on&f=false

Hagenbeck Zoo in 1904: https://mohistory.org/collections/item/resource:148744 

*This image is copyright of its original author
1 user Likes BorneanTiger's post
Reply

Netherlands peter Offline
Expert & Researcher
*****
Moderators
( This post was last modified: 09-01-2019, 06:30 AM by peter )

WHY EUROPEAN ZOOS HAD NO REPRESENTATIVES OF CHINESE AND CASPIAN TIGERS

a - Colonization

In order to answer the question above, we need to start at the other end. Indonesian, Indian, Indochinese and Russian tigers were often seen in European zoos because they were caught and shipped to Europe and the Americas by professionals. In order to find, capture, sell and ship wild tigers, you first need to be there. You also need knowledge, organisation and motivation (money).

Russia and China were never occupied by European countries, but India, Indochina and Indonesia were. People in western Europe knew about tigers in these countries because they were hunted and, later, caught and shipped to Europe. European menageries and zoos were prepared to pay for them. Amur tigers were also seen because the Russians captured and sold young tigers.

This photograph was taken by Y. Saburo, a Japanese scientist. It shows a Russian trapper, his family and three tiger cubs:


*This image is copyright of its original author


Another one (with Saburo):


*This image is copyright of its original author


This photograph is from Sumatra. It shows two tigers shortly after they had been captured:


*This image is copyright of its original author


b - Conservation

Although many wild regions in southeastern Asia were cultivated, some regions in India in particular were protected to a degree. This is why tigers were able to survive for so long in most of southeastern Asia. 

Amur tigers survived because the region in which they lived was transferred from China to Russia in the second half of the 20th century. Although it was colonized to a degree, cultivation was far from easy. This is why hunting always was important in the Russian Far East. The Chinese in particular were involved and the effect, in spite of the efforts of the new rulers to fight destruction, was devastating. At the turn of the century, Arseniev and Dersu (see 'Dersu the Trapper') thought everything would be gone in one or two decades.

Here's Dersu Uzala. The photograph was taken by Arseniev:


*This image is copyright of its original author


The Second World War might have saved Amur tigers. The border was closed, most of the Chinese were expelled and people like Kaplanov got a chance. Not long after the war, measures were taken to protect tigers.

c - Destruction 

In order to cultivate the Caspian region, it was decided to remove tigers. Although reports about tigers still come in every now and then, they were exterminated in the forties, fifties and sixties of the previous century. Here's a captive Caspian tigress (Ognev, 1935):


*This image is copyright of its original author

In that period (just after World War Two), the Chinese also decided against tigers. The last tigers were shot in the mid-sixties. Although some survived in zoos and a few remote regions (see the series on Chinese tigers in this thread), Panthera tigris amoyensis was more or less hunted to extinction in less than two decades. This tiger was killed in 1956:


*This image is copyright of its original author


Although wild tigers were disappearing everywhere, the demand for tiger products didn't collapse. Far from it. As a result of the downfall of the tiger, prices skyrocketed. Poaching resulted in a crisis in both Russia and southeast Asia. The Russians were able to keep a few hundred Amur tigers alive, but in southeastern Asia tigers were quickly exterminated. They survived in some parts of Thailand and Malaysia, but that's about it. 

Bali tigers were exterminated in the forties and fifties of the last century. Javan tigers quickly followed. Sumatra still has tigers, but they lost most of their home (the forest) and are next on the list.   

d - Answers

Although wild animals were decimated in the period European countries occupied most of southeast Asia, tigers, albeit it only just, survived until the early fifties of the last century. In that period, wild tigers were captured and shipped to menageries and zoos in Europe and the Americas by professionals. This regarding Panthera tigris tigris, P.t. corbetti, P.t., P.t. balica, P.t. sondaica and P.t. sumatrae. 

P.t. virgata and P.t. amoyensis were hunted to extinction in the fifties and sixties of the previous century. The campaign was a result of the decision to cultivate the Caspian region and most of central and western China. Tigers in Indonesia disappeared for the same reason in the same period.

Amur tigers survived because the Russians acquired the region in which they lived in the second half of the 19th century (a). Furthermore, the new rulers opposed the destruction caused by settlers (b). Just before the Second World War, when tigers were close to the edge, the Chinese, heavily involved in hunting, were sent to China ©. After the war, as a result of Kaplanov's warning, measures were taken to protect tigers (d).  

After tigers in the Caspian region and in central parts of China had been exterminated, the demand for tiger products resulted in pressure on tigers in Russia and southeast Asia. The Russians, to a degree, were able to protect their tigers, but tigers were hunted to extinction in most of southeast Asia.

As far as I know, European zoos, apart from a few exceptions, never had Caspian and Chinese tigers. There was no information on the situation in the Caspian region and central parts of China in the fifties and sixties of the last century. The lack of information resulted in a quick end for P.t. virgata and P.t. amoyensis..   

Today, the situation in the department of awareness is different. Zoos know captive tigers can contribute to more (genetic) diversity. They also know tigers can be rewilded. More than before, zoos focus on preserving a specific (sub)species. 

This photograph from Tierpark Berlin has two Indochinese tigers: 


*This image is copyright of its original author


Although tigers still are close to the edge, the situation has improved in some parts of Asia. In the long run, however, tigers only seem to stand a chance in Russia, the Western Ghats and the Terai Arc.
6 users Like peter's post
Reply

Germany Lycaon Offline
Regular Member
***

PDF from WCS china 

Monitoring Tigers and leopards in China
3 users Like Lycaon's post
Reply






Users browsing this thread:
2 Guest(s)

About Us
Go Social     Subscribe  

Welcome to WILDFACT forum, a website that focuses on sharing the joy that wildlife has on offer. We welcome all wildlife lovers to join us in sharing that joy. As a member you can share your research, knowledge and experience on animals with the community.
wildfact.com is intended to serve as an online resource for wildlife lovers of all skill levels from beginners to professionals and from all fields that belong to wildlife anyhow. Our focus area is wild animals from all over world. Content generated here will help showcase the work of wildlife experts and lovers to the world. We believe by the help of your informative article and content we will succeed to educate the world, how these beautiful animals are important to survival of all man kind.
Many thanks for visiting wildfact.com. We hope you will keep visiting wildfact regularly and will refer other members who have passion for wildlife.

Forum software by © MyBB