There is a world somewhere between reality and fiction. Although ignored by many, it is very real and so are those living in it. This forum is about the natural world. Here, wild animals will be heard and respected. The forum offers a glimpse into an unknown world as well as a room with a view on the present and the future. Anyone able to speak on behalf of those living in the emerald forest and the deep blue sea is invited to join.
(03-29-2019, 11:30 AM)Kingtheropod Wrote: I'm not sure if this was specifically posted before, as I have not seen anyone post this. Regardless, here is the table of weights and measurements on the tigers shot by Hunter, 1896
From the Journal of the Bombay Natural History Society, Volume 10
Some big cats here, I didnt get through the whole study but its stated the Tigers were from the Central India I believe, I'll have to read through when I get more time.
(07-23-2018, 07:33 PM)BorneanTiger Wrote: Hi, can I add what sources like (https://scholarspace.manoa.hawaii.edu/bitstream/10125/19188/1/AP-v20n1-51-69.pdf, https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Erik_Meijaard/publication/236898561_The_Bornean_tiger_speculation_on_its_existence/links/00b7d51a1e7ec3c441000000/The-Bornean-tiger-speculation-on-its-existence.pdf, https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0031018208002113?via%3Dihub) say about the Bornean tiger? Not only is it established that it existed in prehistoric times, but Bornean people believed that it existed as recently as the previous century.
Welcome to the forum BorneanTiger. Provided it's good info, you can post anything you want on wild tigers. I posted the Meijaard publication some time ago though. If you found something else on tigers in Borneo, post it.
People in Borneo have alleged that the tiger existed in their island not very long ago. When Taufik Wijaya of Mongabay paid a visit to Iber Djamal, a leader of the Dayak Ngaju, an indigenous Bornean folk, particularly in the Indonesian part of Borneo, which is called "Kalimantan" (meaning "Borneo"), he noticed a local kind of machete called the "Mandau", which had fangs on it. According to Djamal, these fangs were from a tiger that was killed by his ancestor, not a leopard or clouded leopard. Photo of Djamal with his Mandau, with the fangs at the bottom, next to his hand, by Jemmie Delvian: https://news.mongabay.com/2016/11/was-bo...of-tigers/
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It is not just Bornean natives who alleged that there were tigers were in Borneo. Amongst the foreigners who talked about the tiger in Borneo was Douchan Gersi, who claimed to have seen one in South Belayan, East Kalimantan, in 1975, and published 2 photographs to support his statement, apparently including one in Page 87 of this book: https://books.google.com/books?id=wUPvHA...edir_esc=y
@phatio Interesting. To an extent, I covered this before, and it's not just Bornean natives who made this claim. Also Douchan Gersi from Europe, who claimed to have seen one in South Belayan, East Kalimantan, in 1975, and published 2 photographs to support his statement, apparently including one in Page 87 of this book: https://books.google.com/books?id=wUPvHA...edir_esc=y
04-22-2019, 06:36 PM( This post was last modified: 07-15-2019, 02:34 PM by BorneanTiger )
(04-10-2019, 02:56 PM)phatio Wrote: Was Borneo once a land of tigers?
The scientific consensus is that while tigers did inhabit the Indonesian islands of Java and Bali, and still live in Sumatra, they never lived in Borneo.
Indigenous peoples in Borneo say otherwise. So-called ‘tiger fangs,’ for example, often feature in traditional Dayak ceremonies.
Some researchers wonder if the question of whether tigers lived in Borneo has gotten short shrift from experts who should be paying more attention to local communities.
PALANGKARAYA, Indonesia — One recent morning I paid a visit to Iber Djamal, a leader of the Dayak Ngaju indigenous people. He had invited us to see his mandau, a traditional Dayak weapon.
When I saw the mandau, which is a kind of machete, my attention focused not on the blade but on the fangs adorning it. What surprised me was that they were said to be tiger fangs.
“These are tiger fangs, not leopard fangs,” Iber said. “The fangs that decorate this mandau are from the animals that have been killed by the weapons inherited from my ancestors. Besides tigers, there are crocodiles, bears, leopards and boars.” What kind of tiger was killed with this mandau?
“A tiger in Kalimantan. It was killed by my ancestor. There used to be tigers in Kalimantan.”
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Iber Djamal shows off the tiger fangs on his mandau. Photo by Jemmie Delvian
Iber’s explanation certainly differs from the general understanding about tigers in Kalimantan, the Indonesian part of Borneo island. The present scientific consensus is that no one in Kalimantan has ever found a tiger. Researchers think the only tigers in Indonesia are in Bali (now extinct), Java (thought to be extinct) and Sumatra (only a few hundred left).
Iber said that the tiger — called harimau in Indonesian and haramaung in Dayak Ngaju — was one of the animals most commonly hunted by his ancestors. “We believe that if a man can hunt and kill a tiger when his wife is pregnant, the child will grow up to be a king or a leader,” he said. If a mandau is adorned with tiger fangs, it will endow whomever wields it with courage.
“Maybe because they’re worth so much to some people, tigers in Kalimantan have been hunted to extinction,” he said. He added that if anyone in his tribe ever found a tiger, it wouldn’t be hunted, “because these animals need to be protected.”
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Fangs from a tiger or a clouded leopard?
After encountering this phenomenon, I contacted Yoan Dinata, chairperson of Forum HarimauKita, an NGO, about the possibility of a long-lost species of Bornean tiger. “There is no record or scholarship of tigers ever living in Kalimantan,” Dinata said. “But there is a possibility that in the past they did live there, because the islands of Java, Sumatra and Borneo were once fused with mainland Southeast Asia.”
According to Dinata, in Kalimantan today there is only the Sunda clouded leopard (Neofelis diardi). “I don’t know if the fangs adorning all of those mandau blades are the fangs of tigers or clouded leopards,” he said. Dinata suggested that there should be more research as to the origin of the fangs. “If they really are tiger fangs, we should study how old they are.”
Scientifically, the nonexistence of tigers in Kalimantan raises many questions among researchers. The merging in ancient times of Borneo with mainland Southeast Asia certainly brought to it a variety of Asiatic wildlife. As a predator, the path of the tiger in the past was certainly influenced by the distribution of its prey. From a habitat perspective the characterstics of Sumatra today are similar with those of Kalimantan.
“Almost all of the animals in Kalimantan are also in Sumatra, including the orangutan and elephant. But surprisingly in Kalimantan today there aren’t any tigers,” Dinata said. “Dayak people’s recognition of the existence of tigers in the past would be an interesting thing to study.”
On the other hand, many of the sources of scientific findings in the past century are by Western researchers — it’s very rare to get information from local communities to be summarized in the scientific record. For example, findings that the Sumatran rhinoceros (Dicerorhinus sumatrensis) might exist in Kalimantan were questioned by some researchers. Only after evidence such as horns and tracks were found did experts begin to seriously explore the existence of this species. As a result, experts finally met the Sumatran rhino in Borneo.
Maybe at a historical moment the tracks of a Bornean tiger will be revealed based on information from local communities. Who knows? https://news.mongabay.com/2016/11/was-bo...of-tigers/
by Taufik Wijaya on 7 November 2016 | Translated by Philip Jacobson
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Recently I came across an article about Bornean Tiger written by a local bornean guy. very interesting but of course it's in indonesian, you can use translate if you want to read the whole story. https://folksofdayak.wordpress.com/2018/...tau-fakta/
it is said there were/are tigers in Borneo. The indigenous peoples of Borneo, commonly known as Dayak called the big cat "Haramaong, Remaong, Lencau" etc. and they know the larger striped cat is different from smaller clouded leopard which they called "Kule".
according to the writter, he/she has some Bornean tiger's canines which is much larger than their Sumatran's cousin. unfortunately he/she dind't post the comparison picture. The Dayak people also made "Besunung", one of their traditional clothes from real Bornean tiger skins.
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@GrizzlyClaw and @tigerluver i need your help once again to determine the originality of these allegedly Bornean tiger canines.
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*This image is copyright of its original author
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*This image is copyright of its original author
*This image is copyright of its original author
*This image is copyright of its original author
let say if these canines and skins were real, some people suggest they probably got those stuff from trading with sumatran, javan or malayan people where tigers existed there. but i highly doubt that, as the indigenous peoples of Borneo are forest dweller peoples. They live completely from their jungle, their home, the only resources they knew for so long. until fairly recently these people hardly knew about money, let alone trading with foreign people.
Here's some sighting reports from my quick search. May 2017 https://www.borneonews.co.id/berita/6344...da-harimau
witness insisted they saw a tiger not a clouded leopard because the animal is larger and longer, and it's a striped cat not spotted. the animal's skin is as clean and soft as carpet, they added.
If the Bornean tiger went extinct in prehistoric times like its Zdansky, Ngandong, Wanhsien and Trinil relatives, then it's peculiar that Bornean natives of recent or present times would hold it in the same type of esteem as say Indians would for the Bengal tiger, or Russians would for the Amur tiger.
Tigers in the Kanha reserve had the highest faecal glucocorticoids metabolites level (markers for stress)
Compared with 200-odd Amur tigers in Russian Far East, the Bengal tigers in three tiger reserves in India — "Bandhavgarh, Kanha, Sariska" — are about 20% more stressed, a study found.
The Indo-Russian team measured the stress level by studying the glucocorticoids metabolites present in the faeces of tigers.
“Increased stress level for prolonged periods will affect the immunity and fitness of tigers. Most importantly, elevated stress negatively impacts reproductive hormones which can lead to reduced fertility and reproductive failure. We have earlier found captive elephants showing compromised reproductive cycle due to stress,” said Dr. Govindhaswamy Umapathy from the Laboratory for the Conservation of Endangered Species (LaCONES) at the Centre for Cellular and Molecular Biology (CSIR-CCMB), co-author of a paper published in the journal PLOS ONE.
Tigers in the Kanha reserve had the highest faecal glucocorticoids metabolites level (markers for stress) while tigers in the Bandhavgarh reserve had the lowest level and comparable with the Amur tigers of Russia.
“Though there is a variation in the concentration of glucocorticoids metabolites in tigers in the three reserves, there is no significant difference in the stress levels. The elevated stress in Bengal tigers might be due to anthropogenic disturbance,” says Vinod Kumar, Technical Officer at CCMB and a co-author of the paper.
High population density
While the tiger reserves in India are smaller than in Russia, the anthropogenic disturbances are very high in Indian reserves.
Besides high anthropogenic stress, tigers in the three reserves experience higher population density compared with Amur tigers in Russia. At 11.33 tigers per 100 sq km, the density of tigers is many times higher in India compared with Ussuriisky reserve in Russia (0.15 tigers per 100 sq. km).
Quote:“Anthropogenic disturbances and higher population density could be causing higher stress in Indian tigers,” Dr. Umapathy says.
“A 2015 study by our team found that tigers reintroduced in Sariska reserve experienced high stress due to anthropogenic disturbances,” Dr. Umapathy says. Besides high vehicular traffic, tigers in the Sariska reserve encounter herders, villagers who visit the forest for collecting wood and livestock grazing.
As a result, the reproducing ability of Sariska tigers reduced.
Unlike Sariska, the Panna tiger reserve faces less anthropogenic disturbances.
As a result, three of the five reintroduced tigresses in Panna reserve produced "multiple litters successfully in four years", while in Sariska a tigress could successfully breed only once after four years.
04-23-2019, 05:49 PM( This post was last modified: 04-23-2019, 05:57 PM by Pckts )
Regardless of that study, Kanha regularly puts out large and muscular cats and probably has one of the most diverse gene pools in India and Bandhavgarh fits right in there with Kanha.
Maybe an Amur lives a less "stressed life" or maybe the markers arent an accurate measurement to actually understanding different types of stress and the effects they have on something.
Stress is a very fickle thing and almost impossible to measure its effects since each person deals with it differently, it's a case by case basis. Some people use stress to become the best person they can be and others fold under it.
Tigers in the Kanha reserve had the highest faecal glucocorticoids metabolites level (markers for stress)
Compared with 200-odd Amur tigers in Russian Far East, the Bengal tigers in three tiger reserves in India — "Bandhavgarh, Kanha, Sariska" — are about 20% more stressed, a study found.
The Indo-Russian team measured the stress level by studying the glucocorticoids metabolites present in the faeces of tigers.
“Increased stress level for prolonged periods will affect the immunity and fitness of tigers. Most importantly, elevated stress negatively impacts reproductive hormones which can lead to reduced fertility and reproductive failure. We have earlier found captive elephants showing compromised reproductive cycle due to stress,” said Dr. Govindhaswamy Umapathy from the Laboratory for the Conservation of Endangered Species (LaCONES) at the Centre for Cellular and Molecular Biology (CSIR-CCMB), co-author of a paper published in the journal PLOS ONE.
Tigers in the Kanha reserve had the highest faecal glucocorticoids metabolites level (markers for stress) while tigers in the Bandhavgarh reserve had the lowest level and comparable with the Amur tigers of Russia.
“Though there is a variation in the concentration of glucocorticoids metabolites in tigers in the three reserves, there is no significant difference in the stress levels. The elevated stress in Bengal tigers might be due to anthropogenic disturbance,” says Vinod Kumar, Technical Officer at CCMB and a co-author of the paper.
High population density
While the tiger reserves in India are smaller than in Russia, the anthropogenic disturbances are very high in Indian reserves.
Besides high anthropogenic stress, tigers in the three reserves experience higher population density compared with Amur tigers in Russia. At 11.33 tigers per 100 sq km, the density of tigers is many times higher in India compared with Ussuriisky reserve in Russia (0.15 tigers per 100 sq. km).
Quote:“Anthropogenic disturbances and higher population density could be causing higher stress in Indian tigers,” Dr. Umapathy says.
“A 2015 study by our team found that tigers reintroduced in Sariska reserve experienced high stress due to anthropogenic disturbances,” Dr. Umapathy says. Besides high vehicular traffic, tigers in the Sariska reserve encounter herders, villagers who visit the forest for collecting wood and livestock grazing.
As a result, the reproducing ability of Sariska tigers reduced.
Unlike Sariska, the Panna tiger reserve faces less anthropogenic disturbances.
As a result, three of the five reintroduced tigresses in Panna reserve produced "multiple litters successfully in four years", while in Sariska a tigress could successfully breed only once after four years.
...Wow. And they simply didn't even skim over the possibly of involvement fact that tiger density in India is 5 times higher than Russia! No word on differences between stress hormone level in tigers from core & buffer either.
Tigers in the Kanha reserve had the highest faecal glucocorticoids metabolites level (markers for stress)
Compared with 200-odd Amur tigers in Russian Far East, the Bengal tigers in three tiger reserves in India — "Bandhavgarh, Kanha, Sariska" — are about 20% more stressed, a study found.
The Indo-Russian team measured the stress level by studying the glucocorticoids metabolites present in the faeces of tigers.
“Increased stress level for prolonged periods will affect the immunity and fitness of tigers. Most importantly, elevated stress negatively impacts reproductive hormones which can lead to reduced fertility and reproductive failure. We have earlier found captive elephants showing compromised reproductive cycle due to stress,” said Dr. Govindhaswamy Umapathy from the Laboratory for the Conservation of Endangered Species (LaCONES) at the Centre for Cellular and Molecular Biology (CSIR-CCMB), co-author of a paper published in the journal PLOS ONE.
Tigers in the Kanha reserve had the highest faecal glucocorticoids metabolites level (markers for stress) while tigers in the Bandhavgarh reserve had the lowest level and comparable with the Amur tigers of Russia.
“Though there is a variation in the concentration of glucocorticoids metabolites in tigers in the three reserves, there is no significant difference in the stress levels. The elevated stress in Bengal tigers might be due to anthropogenic disturbance,” says Vinod Kumar, Technical Officer at CCMB and a co-author of the paper.
High population density
While the tiger reserves in India are smaller than in Russia, the anthropogenic disturbances are very high in Indian reserves.
Besides high anthropogenic stress, tigers in the three reserves experience higher population density compared with Amur tigers in Russia. At 11.33 tigers per 100 sq km, the density of tigers is many times higher in India compared with Ussuriisky reserve in Russia (0.15 tigers per 100 sq. km).
Quote:“Anthropogenic disturbances and higher population density could be causing higher stress in Indian tigers,” Dr. Umapathy says.
“A 2015 study by our team found that tigers reintroduced in Sariska reserve experienced high stress due to anthropogenic disturbances,” Dr. Umapathy says. Besides high vehicular traffic, tigers in the Sariska reserve encounter herders, villagers who visit the forest for collecting wood and livestock grazing.
As a result, the reproducing ability of Sariska tigers reduced.
Unlike Sariska, the Panna tiger reserve faces less anthropogenic disturbances.
As a result, three of the five reintroduced tigresses in Panna reserve produced "multiple litters successfully in four years", while in Sariska a tigress could successfully breed only once after four years.
...Wow. And they simply didn't even skim over the possibly of involvement fact that tiger density in India is 5 times higher than Russia! No word on differences between stress hormone level in tigers from core & buffer either.
Here quote from that study:
"We hypothesis that high anthropogenic stress might be the reason for higher FGCM level in Bengal tigers. India is one of the most populated countries over the world (human population density is 402.8 individuals/km2 ). In Russian Far East (inhabited by the Amur Tiger) human density is extremely low (10 individuals /km2 ). In India tigers’ home ranges are significantly smaller than in Russia [32, 33], they are situated in tigers’ reserves and national parks which are visited regularly by tourists. Number of visitors/tourists was very different between Russian (less than 40, in reserves 2–5 persons/day) and Indian (395–509) study sites. Anthropogenic stress (short distance from villages) may increase stress level in Carnivores [43, 44], including Bengal tigers and even lead to some problems with their reproductive abilities [22]. Tigers’ fecal glucocorticoids PLOS ONE | https://doi.org/10.1371/journal.pone.0214447 April 10, 2019 7 / 11 Possibly, visitors effect on Tiger reserves and National Parks may increase stress level and decrease welfare of tigers in India. The effect of visitors on FGCM level was described for other carnivores (grey wolf, Canis lupus [45]).
The second hypothesis associates high cortisol level in Bengal tigers with the higher tiger population density in this region in comparison to Russian Far East. The density of tigers is many times higher in India (for example, a density of 11.33 individuals /100 km2 was described for Wayanad Wildlife sanctuary, Kerala [46] while in Russia, in Ussuriisky reserve, tigers’ density approximates 0.15 individuals /100 km2 ) [47]. Normally tigers of the same sex may compete for the territory and high density of conspecifics may result in higher cortisol level. However, this hypothesis, while supported by the data on solitary living rodents [48, 49], was never tested for carnivores.
To sum up, Bengal tigers had higher FGCM level than Amur tigers in winter (dry season in India). Many factors may affect stress/welfare level of animals. Increase of FGCM level may be caused by anthropogenic pressure, sexual intercourse, hunger, low air temperatures, conflicts with conspecifics or sympatric species. Bengal tigers had much higher density of potential prey than Amur ones, with supposed hunger (limitation of food) being less probable in India. Winter temperatures are much lower in Russian Far East (-10-40˚C) than in India, so this factor does not seem to affect FGCM level in Bengal tigers. Both subspecies have food competitors among sympatric species of carnivores, however, in India all of them are much smaller than tigers although in Russia brown bears (Ursus arctos) may be dangerous to the Amur tigers at the Rissian Far East. Most likely, the higher level of glucocorticoids in Bengal tigers might be due to high anthropogenic disturbance [23] or/and high density of tigers, which will result in higher contacts with the conspecifics (including aggressive and sexual contacts) or their marking points or footprints. However, a detailed investigation is required to understand the reasons of this phenomenon."
04-24-2019, 03:47 PM( This post was last modified: 04-25-2019, 06:16 PM by Rishi )
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A rare letter written to young rajiv gandhi by his mom indira... great leader. an ideal PM should balance environment as well as development not just only development. Jai hind.
~ Korean Tiger Hunting, 1922, photographed by Ando Kimio. According to the statistics of the Governor-General of Korea, the number of Chosŏn tigers slaughtered during the period of Japanese occupation was around 141. This tiger is arguably the last male tiger to have been photographed, on October 2, 1922, in Gyŏngju, Mt. Daedŏk, in Kyŏngsangbukto province. The tiger skin was dedicated to the Imperial House of Japan. ~
~ Korean Tiger Hunting, 1922, photographed by Ando Kimio. According to the statistics of the Governor-General of Korea, the number of Chosŏn tigers slaughtered during the period of Japanese occupation was around 141. This tiger is arguably the last male tiger to have been photographed, on October 2, 1922, in Gyŏngju, Mt. Daedŏk, in Kyŏngsangbukto province. The tiger skin was dedicated to the Imperial House of Japan. ~
*This image is copyright of its original author
All those beautiful tigers..
Sorrow and rage piercing me.
ON THE EDGE OF EXTINCTION - A - THE TIGER (Panthera tigris)
