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Modern weights and measurements on wild tigers

India Scout Offline
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Does anyone have the list of Terai tigers that Peter made and got average of 220kgs+ ?
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India Rishi Online
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( This post was last modified: 09-25-2020, 07:51 AM by Rishi )

(09-24-2020, 08:43 PM)Yusuf Wrote: Personally i dont agree that a adult male tiger has a minimum weight of 200 kg...
...According to Mazák, the average weight of Indian male tigers should fluctuate around 190 kg. (The most reliable max weights are a 258 kg male bengal tiger reported by mazak)
Mazák, 1983 (S. 178 ff.)


Best Regards.

Oh no, he means the weight range that atleast 70% of healthy adults fall within, that's how they're doing it now... the acreage itself is a range. Any 180kg or 280kg individuals are not in that.
WII data samples not only collectively outnumber all the others combined, but are also evenly spread over all India. Jhala's words carry more weight than anybody else's from 50 years ago.

Nonetheless, I think you should go through the old posts on this thread. Get a look at the specimens around with their weights.
Everything not saved will be lost. - Nintendo 

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Germany Yusuf Offline
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(09-25-2020, 07:37 AM)Rishi Wrote:
(09-24-2020, 08:43 PM)Yusuf Wrote: Personally i dont agree that a adult male tiger has a minimum weight of 200 kg...
...According to Mazák, the average weight of Indian male tigers should fluctuate around 190 kg. (The most reliable max weights are a 258 kg male bengal tiger reported by mazak)
Mazák, 1983 (S. 178 ff.)


Best Regards.

Oh no, he means the weight range that atleast 70% of healthy adults fall within, that's how they're doing it now... the acreage itself is a range. Any 180kg or 280kg individuals are not in that.
WII data samples not only collectively outnumber all the others combined, but are also evenly spread over all India. Jhala's words carry more weight than anybody else's from 50 years ago.

Nonetheless, I think you should go through the old posts on this thread. Get a look at the specimens around with their weights.

Personally i used Mazak to prove that experts cant know the real weight of a male tiger. He described the male sibirian tiger as 230 kg on average whcih sint correct. There are even 120 kg lions described as healthy and adult. Anyways the datas on tigers are not really good. We have more datas for the tiger than for the lion but they arent really good. With good i mean datas with big sample size. 100% Conclusive datas for tigers are in my opinions Brander, Behar and maybe Hewett and that was it. Other datas are only reports and datas with small sampe sizes.

Best regards

And @GuateGojira im still waiting for a answer via privat message. I dont want to debate or something. I only corrected your method to get the average for lions and tigers that was it.
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Guatemala GuateGojira Offline
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(09-24-2020, 08:43 PM)Yusuf Wrote: Personally i dont agree that a adult male tiger has a minimum weight of 200 kg... . Many tigers weighed 180 kg and they were adult. Even from Terrai or Nepal one Tiger was 400 lbs and was claimed as NORMAL SIZE FOR A MALE. (Probably he mean the dimensions).

According to Mazák, the average weight of Indian male tigers should fluctuate around 190 kg. (The most reliable max weights are a 258 kg male bengal tiger reported by mazak)
Mazák, 1983 (S. 178 ff.)


Best Regards.

About the weight of male Bengal tigers:

I have the book of Mazák, the reprint of 2013 of the edition of 1983, and also we have the document of 1981 for the American Society of Mammalogists. In page 144 Mazák says that the weight of the male Bengal tiger range between 200 to 220 kg and reach a maximum of 258 kg based in Hewett. In page 188 and 189 he mention that Brander says that the average weight was of 190 kg, so Mazák do not presented that average, he just quote it with its source. In the document of 1981 he presents a range between 180 to 258 kg for adult Bengals. This is the information from Mazák, based in captive specimens and hunting records.

Since 1973 tiger were captured by scientists in Nepal and the range for the adult males is from 200 to 272 kg+, while the subadults males weight between 125 to 216 kg. Only 3 adult males were captured between 1970 to 1980 and the smallest one was of 200 kg (M-102). The male of 180 kg reported by Mishra is not an adult tiger as it was captured in 1980 and was included in the table of the document of Smith et al. (1983) and as you already know, no adult male captured in Nepal weighed less than 200 kg. Certainly when he says "normal size" was regarding the body size and not the weight. It is known that subadult males already reach the length and in some exceptional cases even the weight of the smallest adults, the male M-123 is a good example as it even had a territory until it was killed by the giant male M-126. The male M-104 was a subadult  of 159 kg but that already had a length of 289 cm.

Dr Karanth (2003 and 2013) stablished a weight between 175 to 260 kg, but that range is for tigers in the Southeast of Asia (he included all Indochina) and not only India/Nepal region. Dr Sunquist (2010) stablish a range between 200 - 260 kg for adult males from India and Nepal. Finally Dr Jhala presented an excelent study about how to age a tiger and he establish that males of over 3 years, which are young adults to 5 years weight between 200 to 260 kg. That do not means that smaller males do not happen, but it seems that the norm is that range.

Now, we need to take in count that some males were baited, like the 200 kg male M-102, so if we adjust it for stomach content, this male could had weighed as low as 181 kg. However from 16 adult males captured by scientists, only 4 males weighed less than 200 kg, two were young adults (183 kg and 185 kg), other was an old one (197 kg) and a last one was a young male that was injured (197 kg).

So, while the overall average of the Bengal tiger in mainland, using both scientific and huting records, provide a figure of 210 kg (n=160; range: 150 - 272 kg), IF we use only scientific records the average weight will be of 220 kg (n=16; range: 183 - 261 kg). Take in count that the figure from scientific records is fully adjusted for stomach content and include only specimens of over 3 years old (not fully adult but already sexually mature), which suggest that all the males between 150 - 180 included in the hunting records were not adults at all and that the figure of 210 kg is an underestimation.

Check these images for more details and take in count that many posters had provided more weights in this topic of male tigers that I did not included yet as I want to corroborate them, and if we include them probably the average of 220 kg will increase:


*This image is copyright of its original author



*This image is copyright of its original author
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Guatemala GuateGojira Offline
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(09-25-2020, 08:32 AM)Yusuf Wrote: And @GuateGojira im still waiting for a answer via privat message. I dont want to debate or something. I only corrected your method to get the average for lions and tigers that was it.

Why are you challenge me? What is your porpuse here? Who send you?

I am wasting to much time with you and your crazy conclutions. If you try to prove that lions are bigger or if you try to create problems trying to drag the "vs" debate to this forum, you are wasting your time.
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India Rishi Online
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( This post was last modified: 09-25-2020, 11:32 AM by Rishi )

Just FYI any comparison posts here will be deleted. There's seperate thread for that.

(09-25-2020, 08:32 AM)Yusuf Wrote: Personally i used Mazak to prove that experts cant know the real weight of a male tiger. He described the male sibirian tiger as 230 kg on average whcih sint correct. There are even 120 kg lions described as healthy and adult. Anyways the datas on tigers are not really good. We have more datas for the tiger than for the lion but they arent really good. With good i mean datas with big sample size. 100% Conclusive datas for tigers are in my opinions Brander, Behar and maybe Hewett and that was it. Other datas are only reports and datas with small sampe sizes.

Best regards

And @GuateGojira im still waiting for a answer via privat message. I dont want to debate or something. I only corrected your method to get the average for lions and tigers that was it.

M8 personal opinions are not facts. WII may not released the data in public, but their sample size is in thousands... You'd know that if you were familiar with their extent of fieldwork. It dwarfs any personal venture of any independent scientist.
Guys like Yadavendra Jhala or Wasif Jamshed who represent them & speaks based on that data.

If you take my advice & check old posts, you'll see here alone we have more than hundred animal's data (mostly dead, captured or translocated) from just news in past few year. And for majority cases we only have photos of the animals being weighed but couldn't find which WII representative had the data.

(09-25-2020, 11:08 AM)GuateGojira Wrote: Why are you challenge me? What is your porpuse here? Who send you?

I am wasting to much time with you and your crazy conclutions. If you try to prove that lions are bigger or if you try to create problems trying to drag the "vs" debate to this forum, you are wasting your time.

He seems to be claiming something like equal weight individuals of both species don't have of equal size & dimensions... Also that you're overestimating by taking into account newer sources instead of only 50-year-old ones.
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Finland Shadow Offline
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(09-25-2020, 08:32 AM)Yusuf Wrote:
(09-25-2020, 07:37 AM)Rishi Wrote:
(09-24-2020, 08:43 PM)Yusuf Wrote: Personally i dont agree that a adult male tiger has a minimum weight of 200 kg...
...According to Mazák, the average weight of Indian male tigers should fluctuate around 190 kg. (The most reliable max weights are a 258 kg male bengal tiger reported by mazak)
Mazák, 1983 (S. 178 ff.)


Best Regards.

Oh no, he means the weight range that atleast 70% of healthy adults fall within, that's how they're doing it now... the acreage itself is a range. Any 180kg or 280kg individuals are not in that.
WII data samples not only collectively outnumber all the others combined, but are also evenly spread over all India. Jhala's words carry more weight than anybody else's from 50 years ago.

Nonetheless, I think you should go through the old posts on this thread. Get a look at the specimens around with their weights.

Personally i used Mazak to prove that experts cant know the real weight of a male tiger. He described the male sibirian tiger as 230 kg on average whcih sint correct. There are even 120 kg lions described as healthy and adult. Anyways the datas on tigers are not really good. We have more datas for the tiger than for the lion but they arent really good. With good i mean datas with big sample size. 100% Conclusive datas for tigers are in my opinions Brander, Behar and maybe Hewett and that was it. Other datas are only reports and datas with small sampe sizes.

Best regards

And @GuateGojira im still waiting for a answer via privat message. I dont want to debate or something. I only corrected your method to get the average for lions and tigers that was it.

@Yusuf I think, that you shouldn´t use the word "correct" when you just disagree, but can´t prove your point in convincing way. 

Guate has clear tables and explanations which sources have been used and how so, that all readers can see it and check things if they want. 

I don´t think, that at this point guate has any need to prove something, when you haven´t been able to explain what would be really wrong in his charts.
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India Scout Offline
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I am sure a lot of things will change if some expert from WII publishes data regarding tigers, like YV Jhala's data (from which he concludes adult males are 200-260kgs). No one possesses more extensive database than the National Institution.
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United States Pckts Offline
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I joined SCI and now have access to their Record Books.

I'll post records of each Big Cats species I can find.

*Date Taken, Location, With which Hunting Program, gun used, Skull Score*

1. 01/1967 India, Uttar Pradesh Giri Raj Singh R 25 6/16" 
2. 01/1962 India, Rajistan Dhram Chandra R 25 4/16" 
3. 01/1966 India, Madhya Pradesh Giri Raj Singh R 25 4/16" 
4. 01/1966 India, Uttar Pradesh Dhram Chandra R 24 9/16" 
5. 09/1967 India R 23 12/16" 
6. 01/1966 India, central Ajai Kumar / Allwyn Cooper R 23 9/16" 
7. 01/1969 India R 23 8/16"
8. 01/1967 India, Madhya Pradesh Udai Bhan Singh R 23" 
9. 01/1969 India, Uttar Pradesh Giri Raj Singh R 22 15/16"
10. 01/1970 India, Madhya Pradesh Udai Bhan Singh R 22 13/16"
11. 12/1968 India, Uttar Pradesh Giri Raj Singh / Indian Shikars R 22 10/16" 
12. 01/1964 India R 22 8/16"
13. 01/1966 India R 22 4/16" 
14. 02/1970 India, Tezpur Imam / Wild Sports of India R 22 2/16" 
15. 04/1970 India Giri Raj Singh R 21 10/16" 14 14
16. 04/1964 India, Salmara Nawab M. Asaf Ali R 20 11/16" 
17. 03/1969 India, Uttar Pradesh Giri Raj Singh R 20 7/16"
18. 11/1959 India, Andhra Pradesh N. F. Mohammed Kahn R 20 3/16" 
19. 04/1969 India, Madhya Pradesh Manoo Chopda / Allwyn Cooper R 19 6/16"
20. 01/1964 India R 19 5/16" 

DESCRIPTION (male) Length, including tail, 8'10" to 10'2" (269-310 cm). Weight 400-575 pounds (181-261 kg). The female is about one foot shorter and weighs 220-350 pounds (100-159 kg).

A large, long-bodied, long-legged tiger. Except for the cheek ruff, the coat is uniformly short and glossy. General color is rich orange or rufous-fawn, typically with 18-20 black stripes-often doubled-from shoulder to root of tail.

DISTRIBUTION Formerly from the Indus River valley in Pakistan to the Irrawaddy River valley in western Myanmar (Burma). Extinct in Pakistan by 1906, but still found in most of the rest of its geographical range; however, its actual distribution within this range is substantially lessened.

STATUS The 1993 census estimates a total of 4,500 Bengal tigers, with about 3,750 in India, 250 in Nepal, and the rest in Bhutan, Bangladesh, and western Myanmar (Burma).

Sumatran Tiger

Only 4 Available
1. 09/1970 Indonesia, Padang Betua Alam Shah R 22 4/16" 1 1
2. 07/1992 Indonesia U 22"
3. 11/1993 Indonesia U 20"
4. 04/1968 Indonesia, Palambang Barat Dollah R 19 3/16" 2 2

DESCRIPTION The smallest surviving tiger. (male) Length, including tail, up to about 7'10" (2.4 m). Weight 220-310 pounds (100-140 kg). Females are shorter and weigh 165-240 pounds (75-109 kg).

Much smaller than the Bengal tiger, with the stripes closer together, sometimes degenerating into rows of small spots. The cheek hair is long, and there is usually a short neck mane. The white of the belly is limited to a narrow striped area, and the light color encircling the eyes is smaller than in mainland races. The forelegs have striking black markings on their inner and hind parts. The skull is said to be typically flatter.

DISTRIBUTION Only on the island of Sumatra in Indonesia, where it is found mainly in the north and in the mountains of the southwest.

TAXONOMIC NOTES DNA studies in 1998 indicate that the Sumatran tiger may be a separate species from other tigers. Joel Cracraft, of the American Museum of Natural History, believes it probably became isolated from other tigers between 6,000 and 12,000 years ago, allowing it to evolve differently.

STATUS Until recently, openly hunted as vermin by local residents, with skins marketed in Singapore. Wild populations have declined from about 1,000 in the 1970s to 500-600 at present, with another 235 in captive breeding programs.
"Imagination was given to man to compensate him for what he is not, and a sense of humor was provided to console him for what he is."
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India Scout Offline
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( This post was last modified: Yesterday, 02:18 PM by Scout )

Has anyone here tried contacting Dr. Y.V. Jhala?
Ig Shadow did but not much information was provided.
We can try again

Edit - I have emailed him, lets hope for a quick reply
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