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Modern weights and measurements on wild tigers

ganidat Offline
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They need to use different cages where they can't bite or claw at it.
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Malaysia johnny rex Offline
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Still remember the Chunakhan tiger? Got this from Youtube. The skull is still housed today at the late Tootoo Imam's residence in India. 

   

   
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Malaysia johnny rex Offline
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(11-02-2023, 10:58 PM)Roflcopters Wrote: Amazing! yet another beast from Uttarakhand. tfs @melon 

I also did some digging and found that Chunakhan Eco Tourism centre is just 36km driving distance from Corbett and about 22km to the east is Haldwani. 


*This image is copyright of its original author


on this map, where it says Corbett-Ramnagar and underneath where it says Boar river. that’s pretty much the area where this tiger originated from. Also, if i’m not mistaken @Ashutosh mentioned a while back that tigers from this region are just as impressive as their Eastern cousins and in the last couple of years. i was able to see it for myself. thanks to the growing population of tigers and increased tourism activity from this region. 


*This image is copyright of its original author


Sitabani King 


*This image is copyright of its original author


the famous Rajaji male from 2011 camera traps

Is it Chunakhan near the north or another Chunakhan in Jharkhand? Sometimes, the Chunakhan Monster is called Beast of Hazaribagh. Hazaribagh is in Jharkhand.
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United States Pckts Offline
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(01-14-2024, 09:54 PM)johnny rex Wrote: Still remember the Chunakhan tiger? Got this from Youtube. The skull is still housed today at the late Tootoo Imam's residence in India. 
Compared to Branders 600lb estimated Tiger
5cm or 2'' longer than Branders
10cm or 4'' Taller at the shoulder 
and using an Estimated Chest girth based off speculation  11cm or 4'' larger chest girth 

Branders male had been feeding on Buffalo for quite some time so no doubt he wasn't an empty cat so lets just say for the estimations purposes Branders was 250-260kg Empty.
This male mentioned above would probably be around the 272-294kg empty range.
But that is based off of estimations and without proper backstory on the actual measuring protocol.
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India Ansh Singh Offline
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(11-10-2018, 11:01 AM)GuateGojira Wrote:
(11-09-2018, 10:21 AM)Kingtheropod Wrote: GuateGojira regarding food intake. What is your opinion of the Sunquist figures of food intake. The figures showing food consumption of 14-18.6 kg in a 24 hour period does not necessarily mean they consumed all that in one sitting, meaning that cats could have consumed only 7 kg in one feeding session, and consumed another 7 kg later on in the same day after it digested the previous meal. In other words, the 14 kg daily food intake figure could have consisted of several smaller meals meaning the figures for Sunquist being adjusted to 221 kg (minus 14 kg) could be completely void! In addition, what do you think the correct figure for Sunquist study should be, should we use the 221 kg adjusted figure, or the 235 kg?

I got the idea reading from Nat Geo

"It may take days for a tiger to finish eating its kill. Tigers have been known to eat up to 60 pounds (27 kilograms) of meat in one night, but more often they consume about 12 pounds (5 kilograms) during a meal. The cat eats until it's full, and then covers the carcass with leaves and dirt. When it's hungry again, the tiger comes back to feed some more, until the meat is gone."

https://www.nationalgeographic.com.au/an...facts.aspx

The same also applies for the example above.
@Kingtheropod, I am very surprised that you are asking me that question again, specially when you already know my answer. Did you remember that harsh debate with Waveriders about the food intake? Did you remember when I explained the method to bait a tiger in Nepal and why the figure of 14 kg is accurate and may be a little excesive to adjust?

Let me tell you again. I explained that baits are put between 6-7 pm and latter they are checked again at about 4 am of the next day (in some cases they were checked trought the night at Tiger Tops, as Dr McDougal took turist to see tigers eating baits in the night). This means that the baits are left in the field about 9-10 hours. Of course, there is no case showing a tiger killing a bait inmediatelly after the scientist leave it in the field. So assuming that the tiger manage to kill the bait at about 8 pm, this means that the tiger (male or female) had about 8 hours to eat. Now, tigers do not eat the prey inmediatelly after killing it, it grab its prey and move it to another place and latter it start to remouve all the hair before to start eating. Schaller says that after 1 1/2 -2 1/2 hours eating they stop and rest, maybe they can move to drink something and then return to the kill latter. This means that the tigers (male and female) do not eat constantly with out interruptions during the 8 hours, in fact, they probably eat about 6-7 hours in displaced periods, maybe less, and the other time they rest, drink, play or fight scavengers from the food, that is a normal sesion of feeding for a tiger.

Sunquist (1981) found that a tiger (male and female) may eat between 14-19 kg in 24 hours, from baits and also natural kills. However these figures are from undisturbed kills and were measured from several days. Figures of 30-35 kg for male and female tigers do exist, but these are exceptions, not the rule in any case. The tigers at baits only had about 7 hours to feed, maybe 8 in the best case, and Dr Sunquist himself describe that in all the captures they disturbed the tigers at the kills, and in an email he especifically said that he "don't ever remember been struck by the size of the stomach of any of the animals, suggesting that they had not yet eat their fill when captured".

So, tigers did not had 24 hours, nor even 12 hours to eat at baits, which means that the figures of 14-19 kg may be actually higher than the real food intake of the tigers in the captures at "disturbed kills". If a tiger eat an average of 19 kg in a day, this means that in 7-8 hours it may eat about 5.5-6.3 kg, which is close to the 6-7 kg that Sunquist (1981) estimated was the necesary daily intake for a female tiger, obviously will be more for a male. Even if we take the figure of 27 kg reported by Dr Schaller from only one male that he was able to measure, it means a food intake of 8-9 kg in the 7-8 hours when the tiger was able to eat undisturbed. Finally if we take the exceptional food intake of 35 kg reported by Dr McDougal, we can estimate a food intake of 10-12 kg for a large male, but this was an exceptional case and represent the maximum food intake, actually measured, reported in litterature. So we can see that about 8 kg for females and 10 kg for males will be a good food intake, assuming that the tiger did eat the 7-8 hours at the kill "undisturbed" (but the "real" feeding time could be much less). Also remember that tigers were captured in the morning and the search for the tigers started at about 5 am and it seems that tigers were found resting, not eating, at the baits, they were not gorged and the food intake was probably less than 11 kg in both males and females in the time that they were at the kills.

Please take in count that we are assuming that tigers killed the baits just a few hours after they were put in the field, which probably was not the case. So the figure of 14 kg to adjust the weight of the Nepalese tigers is actually slightly higher than the estimated "real" amount of food consumed by the tiger in the baits "undisturbed", and the figure of 19 kg will be excesive. I can say that the average figures of 221 kg for males and 130 kg for females "adjusted" seems reliable, but could be actually a little higher, maybe up to 227 kg for males.

I have questions I'm New to Wild Fact is that 388kg  Bengal tiger and 384 kg Siberian tiger was reliable and they are really that heavy or just it's unreliable information?
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India Ansh Singh Offline
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(04-28-2022, 10:39 PM)GuateGojira Wrote:
(04-28-2022, 06:08 PM)LonePredator Wrote: If the Smythsonian Tiger of 389kg also similarly had a tail like this, about an 86cm tail, then the rest of the head body length would be 235cm and a Tiger of that body length (if has the same proportions of an average Bengal Tiger) can mathematically reach upto 396kg.

Now, in the case of the 389kg specimen, the stomach content would have been around 15kg in my opinion. That means a weight of about 370-375kg and if the Tiger was even 225-230cm in head body but was proportionally taller or had a proportionally wider chest then the 389kg is possible. (perhaps not practical but possible)

All we know is the total length between pegs for that Tiger which was 322cm, the rest of the details are unknown so if more measurements were available, then it would have been possible to make better judgements but with a small tail or by being tall and bulky or by having both, the Tiger could have reached that weight for real.

People say that 389kg is impossible but it’s physically possible. If he had that sort of length with a very short tail then the Tiger can definitely support this weight.

We have a couple of other examples of big tigers and short tails:

The Bachelor of Powalgarh, for example, measured about 323 cm "over curves" and probably 310 cm "between pegs". We estimate a good size but the picture shows a true giant! Check it:

*This image is copyright of its original author



*This image is copyright of its original author


This tiger certainly measured over 210 cm in head-body "between pegs", sadly we can't see its tail.


Other is the tiger of the Maharaha of Nepal that weighed 320 kg and total length of 328 cm  over curves" (at least 311 cm "between pegs"), the incredibly realistic paint shows a short tail in relation with its overall size, check it:

*This image is copyright of its original author


This tiger is another candidate for over 210 cm in head body length "straight".

Now, these two giants are very bulky as we can see and reflect huge body masses, but what about the Smithsonian tiger, well.........

*This image is copyright of its original author


Certainly this tiger is not near the size of the Bachelor or the Nepalese giant, it looks more like an average sized one, and the reported size for its skull confirm it. Honestly it do not look gorged or anything like that so that statement can't be use to justify its huge mass, check this other picture too:

*This image is copyright of its original author


But with this photographic evidence we can see that there is something wrong with the weight of this tiger, even the reported length of 323 cm "between pegs" seems too much for this specimen, unless than its tail was very long (up to 114 cm in the maximum records (Brander, 1927)), in that case the length seems reliable as this tiger can be a little over 200 cm in head-body straight. So, while this tiger did existed, was certainly measured and obviously weighed, the weight was certainly incorrect, maybe the scale used was bad, or something happen but from my point of view this tiger can't weight over 300 kg, leave alone the 389 kg claimed.

Evidence suggest that the biggest tigers can reach 320-330 cm in total length (up to 221 cm in head-body confirmed) and weights between 260-290 kg "empty". The Smithsonian tiger while cover all the levels of reliability of Slaght et al. (2005) and can be clasiffied as "highly reliable" is an example when we also need to use the logic and not only the raw data, as this tiger, alghouth of a good size, it can't be of that enormous weight, from my point of view at least.

The tiger of 389 kg and the lion 313 kg reported by Guinness are not reliable and should not be used for comparison. That is my final word on this.

Yeah 389 kg tiger and 313 kg lion is absolutely overestimation
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Munna17 Offline
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[attachment=11863 Wrote:     johnny rex pid='200435' dateline='1705423594']
(11-02-2023, 10:58 PM)Roflcopters Wrote: Amazing! yet another beast from Uttarakhand. tfs @melon 

I also did some digging and found that Chunakhan Eco Tourism centre is just 36km driving distance from Corbett and about 22km to the east is Haldwani. 


*This image is copyright of its original author


on this map, where it says Corbett-Ramnagar and underneath where it says Boar river. that’s pretty much the area where this tiger originated from. Also, if i’m not mistaken @Ashutosh mentioned a while back that tigers from this region are just as impressive as their Eastern cousins and in the last couple of years. i was able to see it for myself. thanks to the growing population of tigers and increased tourism activity from this region. 


*This image is copyright of its original author


Sitabani King 


*This image is copyright of its original author


the famous Rajaji male from 2011 camera traps

Is it Chunakhan near the north or another Chunakhan in Jharkhand? Sometimes, the Chunakhan Monster is called Beast of Hazaribagh. Hazaribagh is in Jharkhand.

This Chunakhan is near Hazaribagh in Jharkhand. I have been born and brought up in Ranchi, Jharkhand and as a child was a regular visitor of the Palamau and Hazaribagh areas of Jharkhand. As a correlation to confirm the same, one may read the text on the page. The names Manjho, Bulu and Sanjhalu are typical Chotanagpuri Adivasi Tribal/Santhal names. Also the village mentioned as Jarwadih points to this area as the suffix "dih" which generally means a mound or small water body is a very commonly prevalent name in the Easterrn hilly and plateau parts. eg Manduadih, Santhaldih etc. In fact I did a mapping around the town of Hazaribagh on Google Earth after reading this. From the centre of Hazaribagh town if one draws a line of Bearing 71.5 deg and Range 33 Kms one comes to a hilly and forested part with a small hill stream. The names Chunapathar waterfall and village Jarudih are there. Lat is 24 deg 5' 36.66" and Long 85 deg 40' 40.08". One may check it out.
Hazaribagh is a place once famous for its forests and Tigers in local, Bihari and Bengali litreature and lore. Infact the name Hazaribagh may have 2 origins. Hazari Bagh may mean a place of a thousand gardens ie hazar is thousand and bag means garden in Bengali, Hindi, local and most Indian Languages metamorphosed from Sanskrit. The other meaning is place of a thousand Tigers as Bagh is Hindi, Bengali, Assamese, Marathi etc word for Tiger from the Sanskrit Wyaghra or Byaghra for Tiger.
The latter seems more probable as the area is historically known as a forested wilderness since ancient times and still has remnants of that forest cover.
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