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Lion Predation
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 (08-02-2014, 12:14 AM)'Pantherinae' Wrote:'Pckts dateline='' Wrote: Some farmers poison cats still though, wether India or africa or any where else. Absolutely, canned hunting is disgusting. But the South African gov't allows it still, they even allow hunting of wild lions for the right price. Even more disgusting, I wonder why we can't just have a "UN" for wild life protection?  'Pckts dateline='' Wrote:'Pantherinae dateline='' Wrote:'Pckts dateline='' Wrote: Some farmers poison cats still though, wether India or africa or any where else. Yeah I know south Africa does allow such horrible hunts for the right price! Break's my hart to see a healthy lion killed for status, a picture and a trophy! Ahh makes me angry... try without a weapon! (08-02-2014, 01:18 AM)'Pantherinae' Wrote:'Pckts dateline='' Wrote:'Pantherinae dateline='' Wrote:'Pckts dateline='' Wrote: Some farmers poison cats still though, wether India or africa or any where else. Don't even get me started on this. It's the absolute most dispicable thing in my eyes. I treat it no different than a human. What makes it ok to kill innocent animals that are as important to the worlds eco system as we are, what makes their lives worth less? Its just baffling to me, I understand people living off the land who hunt what they need to survive, but I will never understand a "trophy hunter".
@Pckts
you are absolutley right! As you say trophy hunt and hunting on endangerd species is compleatley different than people hunting for food or hunting on animals where there is no carnivore's left to control the population and taking out weak induviduvals! Me too! they are worth just as much as humans, both the animals in the animal park and my dogs and cat at home! But the killing of for example lions (trophy) and tigers (potching) makes me furious and sad at the same time! And even worse are when people are trying to defend them with saying they shoot them legal.... That's the problem, it's legal!!! amazing lion takedown! Buffalo bull brought down with ease by two crater male Lions!  (08-09-2014, 06:21 PM)'Pantherinae' Wrote:Oldies but goodies. I love how male lions face their prey in the open, sometimes they strafe left and right but still prefer a ''domination game'', always imposing a bold posture, in comparison with other cats huntning style which are based on the element of surprise,''only''. The reason why a Ngorongoro male would probably wreck any big cat in his path. 'Jinenfordragon dateline='' Wrote:'Pantherinae dateline='' Wrote:Oldies but goodies. Hei Nice to meet You! Yeah Lions especialy males are very cunning and bold. Hunting heavy prey in The open is far harder than with ambush such as kruger Lions, leopards and tigers are usualy hunting. Be carefull making a statement like that crater Lions would take any other cat, I'm not saying you're wrong or right, but some people are very sensitive in cat vs cat comparison, and it would make this whole thread be off topic! But IMO The most hardcore lions would be Lions in The Moremi game reserve. not only are they very big, but also said to be very aggressive. (08-10-2014, 01:28 AM)'Pantherinae' Wrote:'Jinenfordragon dateline='' Wrote:'Pantherinae dateline='' Wrote:Oldies but goodies. Yup, keep the L vs T nonsense out of it. Back to the original point, It is irresponsible to claim that cats only hunt one way. All cats use surprise attacks or face down their prey. Lions are easier to see in the wild making hunts and they face down their prey because it distracts them to allow others to attack from behind. How do you think Tigers kill Rhino, elephant and Gaur? Animals that large dont run, they fight. Even the smaller cow Gaur fought back against raja.
@Pckts I did not mean it that way, I ment that Often male Lions doese't hunt with The effect of surprise in the Crater etc than normaly other cat's would because of The open terrain and attacks prey when The prey knows what's comming, but sure all cat's does it.
You know my opinion on tiger predation on rhino/ elephants (will not start an argument on that). So I will comment on The gaur instead. Can't see The gaur killed by Raja fight back at all, it was surprised and just was suffucated very quickly, just in The beguinning, but then Raja is just trying to avoid The horns, like a real hunter, that's my impression of that hunt! And gaur's are surprisingly fast and I have seen gaur's run when a tiger charges!
Come on Pantherinae, the Gaur charges Raja in the very begginning.
Also, of course gaur will run when a Tiger charges same as buffalo will run when lions charges. But they also fight back as well. Hence the video of the Gaur herd running off the male tiger (forget his name) Also, wether or not you want to believe Tigers kill Rhino or Elephant, which they do. There is no denying the fact that tigers will attack full grown elephent. The mother attacking the mahoot and elephent proves that. Also, there is a Great image and backstory in the Tiger thread about a huge male gaur that was always seen near the villages and survived a predation attempt on it. Images of the wounded buffalo are shown as well, this was the Alpha male and a lone tiger still choose to attempt a predation on him. Ambush is the preffered means of attack for any cat. Lion, tiger, jag etc... If they have a choice, it will always be ambush. Even the male Lion that kills a baby buffalo chooses to ambush it. Why risk being injured, unless you have to. So, with all of that said. The scenerio of every hunt is different i:e: terrain, prey size, # of members etc. Those factors will dictate how a hunt unfolds, not the cat. IMO
@Pckts that's a little charge, but that's like a wildebeest calf charging a lion, it's not what I would call a "real" charge, ofc I'm not saying gaur's doese't charge, because there are videos of gaur's chasing tigers so gaur are formidable oponents for tigers, and tigers are capable of killing them!
I did not say anything about tigers not being cappable of killing neiather buffalo or gaur! Remember I love tigers and admire them so much! Just because I disagree with You on something it does not mean I'm talking The tigers cappablity down! I'm just saying my own thought's and what I belive. A tiger attacking a man on an elephant is different from tigers attacking to kill my friend, You can see The tiger is going for The man not The elephant! Tigers know there are humans on The elephats. It's like Leopards does sometimes attack cars when there are hunters sadly hunting them from cars, but that does not mean leopards are hunting and perying on safari jeep's.. Again You belive what You wanna belive and I can belive whatever I wanna belive untill I'm proven wrong, again I'm sporry, but You say is proof, is not enough for me. Still no harm, I respect you and does not wanna have this stupid argument again, it's not liked by The moditors and we should respect that! [img]images/smilies/smile.gif[/img]
Tiger attacks on Elephant are common, reported, viewed etc.
That was simply a example. It proves that tigers attack any animal face to face or ambush. It was simpley used to disprove Jinen claim. The only reason that Raja video was a "little charge" was because raja used to apply the death grip. That was used as proof of Tigers attacking face to face with animals that fight back. You stated that the "Guar didn't fight back at all" originally then you stated that it was a "little charge". Im sorry, the words you are saying are downgrading to a Tiger. 'Pckts dateline='' Wrote: Tiger attacks on Elephant are common, reported, viewed etc. Just saw The video again and The gaur is turning around and Raja jumps away and battles the gaur and gets a throat bite! That's how I see it. You are mad meanig I'm talking The tiger down, I'm not You must have had bad experience at other forums since You are so defensive, everything I'm saying is absolutley not talking down an animal down! I'm just saying what's right in my mind, I'm not saying I'm right just my thought's and opinions! Describing a hunt is difficult as many sees it different! (08-11-2014, 03:42 AM)'Pantherinae' Wrote:'Pckts dateline='' Wrote: Tiger attacks on Elephant are common, reported, viewed etc. You have a way of fitting in "claims" in your debates that are deceiving. Just like you still will not admit that the Gaur charged raja. I'm sorry, that is blatant and denying it is false. Same with Rhino predation and Elephant predation. Same with the water buffalo vs Gaur size and comparision. Same with the Bamera claim or Waghdoh claim, This statement "
If anything, ambushing large prey means that you are getting the prey with all the energy they have, not after they have ran long distance and sapped their energy. So once again, every situation is different and every hunt will have its own challenges. My point is, you may not say it out right, but you certainly imply things quite often. and Yes, I have had many bad expierences with other forums (as we all have) and that is why I am so thorough with the research I do. So I don't make these claims with out backing. I am simply responding to your statements, if you don't like the comment, I'm sorry. But "defensive" is completely different than suspicious. None of the above mentioned are to re start those debates because I will not. They are used as examples. This isn't met to offend you, it is simply observational and I mean no disrespect.
I don't understand you're attack again?
It's not about that I don't can admit that The gaur did not attack Raja The thing is I can't see it! I can't understand that absolute stupid claim You came with right there, that is just silly how can You call that not admitting anything! Also rhino and elephant predation is Nothing wrong with me not beliveing as you're proof is not proof enough for me... because it's not real proof. And IMO tigers killing rhinos and elephant are just not true, but again that's my opinion... Not trying to make You belive me, but that's my opinion! It was cape and gaur! Which was an comparison I did not make.. And it seemed right from my sighting's of The animals, but sure there are bigger gaur's and they I can't comment about.... also I can't say anything more on The bamera wagdoh case.. I said The things about bamera from my own experience when I saw him, but I will not post The pictures so let's forget that since I cannot prove it and than I will not comment more on that since You know what that will turn out.. Also wagdoh that was never ment as an insult, I said What other people had told me and if I'm wrong sorry But we can agree that ther do exist taller and longer tigers than wagdoh. Well is it not obvious attack an animal from ambush will have more advantages than hunting an animal standing it's ground... Also The thing with The large bull attacked, The tiger lost it The moment of surprise and did not manage to kill it. And yes this is an insult, You should not be The one to talk I was looking on pictures on AVA forum and The sometimes disrespectfull comments about Lions from You where shoocking.. I guess you're name there was pckts. |
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