There is a world somewhere between reality and fiction. Although ignored by many, it is very real and so are those living in it. This forum is about the natural world. Here, wild animals will be heard and respected. The forum offers a glimpse into an unknown world as well as a room with a view on the present and the future. Anyone able to speak on behalf of those living in the emerald forest and the deep blue sea is invited to join.
02-18-2021, 04:44 AM( This post was last modified: 02-18-2021, 04:45 AM by Styx38 )
(02-17-2021, 02:29 AM)Balam Wrote:
(02-17-2021, 02:05 AM)Styx38 Wrote:
(02-17-2021, 12:27 AM)Balam Wrote:
(02-13-2021, 10:45 AM)Styx38 Wrote: Leopard with Crocodile kill.
"December 3, 2016. Road above Borupanwila in Wilpattu. After lunch our safari driver Ajith told us to go for a walk without resting so we started our journey in the jeep. Ajith said that there was a tiger parked on the road above Borupanwila but we could not see anything. At the same time, the tiger ran across the road and jumped to the other side unimaginably fast. Disappointed, we put our cameras on the seats and stared at the empty road. At the same time, the tiger was dragged by the neck of a huge crocodile and came running across the road again."
This was not a kill, it was posted originally here and according to OP the encounter lasted 1.5 hours, in which the crocodile ended up prevailing:
*This image is copyright of its original author
The only mention of the Crocodile escaping was from that Chinese Forum.
When I saw the facebook posts for the actual Sri Lankan poster, I did not find any mention of the Crocodile escaping.
They were amazed at a unique photo of a Leopard catching a Crocodile, and the main poster was whining that he did not send it to Nat Geo due to thinking it was an amateur photo.
*This image is copyright of its original author
*This image is copyright of its original author
*This image is copyright of its original author
Quote:The only mention of the Crocodile escaping was from that Chinese Forum.
The "Chinese site" had a post on the interaction dating back to 2017, the Facebook post was made in 2020, in the 2017 post the name of the guide is mentioned and later corroborated by the Facebook post, so it wasn't any random post, not to mention that in the 2017 post the picture included is that of the actual camera showing the shot in it.
Quote:When I saw the facebook posts for the actual Sri Lankan poster, I did not find any mention of the Crocodile escaping.
And in the Facebook post there is no mention of the leopard killing the crocodile either:
*This image is copyright of its original author
The translation is rough, but it could be applied that the crocodile returned to the scene later on, no mention of successful predation or kill is specified here. What is specified is that they could not focus clearly on the scene, so any derived conclusion of the leopard killing the crocodile would be false.
Quote:They were amazed at a unique photo of a Leopard catching a Crocodile, and the main poster was whining that he did not send it to Nat Geo due to thinking it was an amateur photo.
I scrolled through the comments as well, nowhere in there does the photographer states that the leopard killed the crocodile, other commenters unrelated to the scene are the ones doing that. He states that it wouldn't have been the first case a leopard would have hunted a crocodile without stating that that specific situation ended up with the crocodile dead, it is likely he wanted to say "attempted to hunt a crocodile".
In fact, in your last screenshot he clearly said that the scene was not fully captured, so to look at that and arrive at the conclusion that the leopard killed the crocodile is dishonest.
1. The Chinese poster did not post a link for that incident, so he could have made it up.
2. The facebook post translation, both from google translate and on my phone states that the Leopard dragged the Crocodile away in a rough translation. That is where it ends. The remainder of the comments are celebrating this event, with a couple of comments even joking that the Crocodile is a tasty meal. So there is more or less an implication that the Leopard got the Crocodile as a meal.
Quote:For crocodiles killed that are closer to the size of leopards (one case in Africa and another, different, alleged case in Sri Lanka) the crocodile is always inland, and with the African case, the desertic and dry terrain leads us to suggest that the crocodile was dehydrated and emaciated, this is very much common sense.
Interesting how you accuse us as either being dishonest or having a strong Leopard bias, but you make up your own theories.
For the Leopard killing the Crocodile in Africa, the photographer himself stated that the Leopard actually jumped in the water to catch the Crocodile.
Mobile version:
"I was photographing hippos at a waterhole in Kruger National Park South Africa when out of nowhere, a speeding shape comes out of the bush and hits the water. I swing my camera and begin shooting before I even know what it is. I realize, looking through the lens, that it is a leopard that has snatched a crocodile from the water. They tumble and fight for less than a minute before the leopard begins dragging the crocodile up the bank and back into the bush. It disappears into the grass. Two minutes later it appears again farther into the bush, the bloody crocodile now hangs lifeless and limp from its jaws. I wanted so badly to follow them"
News article version:
"The American wildlife photographer was taking pictures of hippos from his car at a waterhole in Kruger National Park when a speeding shape came out of the bushes and headed for the water.
After an initial struggle, onlookers stared in disbelief as the leopard emerged dragging a thrashing crocodile up the bank.
With its' snout pointing upwards, the crocodile snapped and attempted to fight back as the predators flipped and tumbled in a dramatic battle.
But the leopard, who had it caught by the throat, remained in control as the crocodile's legs clawed frantically at the cat's belly, its jaws snapping at air."
(02-13-2021, 10:45 AM)Styx38 Wrote: Leopard with Crocodile kill.
"December 3, 2016. Road above Borupanwila in Wilpattu. After lunch our safari driver Ajith told us to go for a walk without resting so we started our journey in the jeep. Ajith said that there was a tiger parked on the road above Borupanwila but we could not see anything. At the same time, the tiger ran across the road and jumped to the other side unimaginably fast. Disappointed, we put our cameras on the seats and stared at the empty road. At the same time, the tiger was dragged by the neck of a huge crocodile and came running across the road again."
This was not a kill, it was posted originally here and according to OP the encounter lasted 1.5 hours, in which the crocodile ended up prevailing:
*This image is copyright of its original author
The only mention of the Crocodile escaping was from that Chinese Forum.
When I saw the facebook posts for the actual Sri Lankan poster, I did not find any mention of the Crocodile escaping.
They were amazed at a unique photo of a Leopard catching a Crocodile, and the main poster was whining that he did not send it to Nat Geo due to thinking it was an amateur photo.
*This image is copyright of its original author
*This image is copyright of its original author
*This image is copyright of its original author
Quote:The only mention of the Crocodile escaping was from that Chinese Forum.
The "Chinese site" had a post on the interaction dating back to 2017, the Facebook post was made in 2020, in the 2017 post the name of the guide is mentioned and later corroborated by the Facebook post, so it wasn't any random post, not to mention that in the 2017 post the picture included is that of the actual camera showing the shot in it.
Quote:When I saw the facebook posts for the actual Sri Lankan poster, I did not find any mention of the Crocodile escaping.
And in the Facebook post there is no mention of the leopard killing the crocodile either:
*This image is copyright of its original author
The translation is rough, but it could be applied that the crocodile returned to the scene later on, no mention of successful predation or kill is specified here. What is specified is that they could not focus clearly on the scene, so any derived conclusion of the leopard killing the crocodile would be false.
Quote:They were amazed at a unique photo of a Leopard catching a Crocodile, and the main poster was whining that he did not send it to Nat Geo due to thinking it was an amateur photo.
I scrolled through the comments as well, nowhere in there does the photographer states that the leopard killed the crocodile, other commenters unrelated to the scene are the ones doing that. He states that it wouldn't have been the first case a leopard would have hunted a crocodile without stating that that specific situation ended up with the crocodile dead, it is likely he wanted to say "attempted to hunt a crocodile".
In fact, in your last screenshot he clearly said that the scene was not fully captured, so to look at that and arrive at the conclusion that the leopard killed the crocodile is dishonest.
1. The Chinese poster did not post a link for that incident, so he could have made it up.
2. The facebook post translation, both from google translate and on my phone states that the Leopard dragged the Crocodile away in a rough translation. That is where it ends. The remainder of the comments are celebrating this event, with a couple of comments even joking that the Crocodile is a tasty meal. So there is more or less an implication that the Leopard got the Crocodile as a meal.
Quote:For crocodiles killed that are closer to the size of leopards (one case in Africa and another, different, alleged case in Sri Lanka) the crocodile is always inland, and with the African case, the desertic and dry terrain leads us to suggest that the crocodile was dehydrated and emaciated, this is very much common sense.
Interesting how you accuse us as either being dishonest or having a strong Leopard bias, but you make up your own theories.
For the Leopard killing the Crocodile in Africa, the photographer himself stated that the Leopard actually jumped in the water to catch the Crocodile.
Mobile version:
"I was photographing hippos at a waterhole in Kruger National Park South Africa when out of nowhere, a speeding shape comes out of the bush and hits the water. I swing my camera and begin shooting before I even know what it is. I realize, looking through the lens, that it is a leopard that has snatched a crocodile from the water. They tumble and fight for less than a minute before the leopard begins dragging the crocodile up the bank and back into the bush. It disappears into the grass. Two minutes later it appears again farther into the bush, the bloody crocodile now hangs lifeless and limp from its jaws. I wanted so badly to follow them"
News article version:
"The American wildlife photographer was taking pictures of hippos from his car at a waterhole in Kruger National Park when a speeding shape came out of the bushes and headed for the water.
After an initial struggle, onlookers stared in disbelief as the leopard emerged dragging a thrashing crocodile up the bank.
With its' snout pointing upwards, the crocodile snapped and attempted to fight back as the predators flipped and tumbled in a dramatic battle.
But the leopard, who had it caught by the throat, remained in control as the crocodile's legs clawed frantically at the cat's belly, its jaws snapping at air."
For the Sri Lankan one, we do not know how long the Crocodile was on dry land.
However, Wilpattu is considered a wetland, so the Crocodile may have not been out that long on land.
1. How many times will this have to be explained? The poster mentioned the name of the guide and the picture shown is of the camera itself. This is information and footage that only someone who was present in the event could've had, and since the post was made a year after the incident and much before the Facebook post, it takes precedent over the most recent one (not that the two posts were contradicting themselves to begin with). You said the crocodile had been killed, that was a lie.
2. Why are you trying to use the opinions of random posters who were not present in the event and did not see it happen firsthand? What weight do their opinions have? None. They are simply stating hyperbolic statements because they were amused at the event. You trying to discredit someone who had firsthand pictures and information on the case while using random people unrelated to it to try to corroborate your claims because you do not like that the leopard did not kill the crocodile as you wished it had is indeed deceptive and an example of extreme bias.
I can make my own theories the way you and others were making here, the difference is that I'm not making definitive statements and claiming a specific outcome when I don't have the information to make those statements and where different posts have suggested something different.
Quote:For the Leopard killing the Crocodile in Africa, the photographer himself stated that the Leopard actually jumped in the water to catch the Crocodile.
By all means, link the "mobile version" here to read it thoroughly, certainly the DialyMail article did not mention anything about the leopard pulling the crocodile out of the water.
02-20-2021, 01:27 PM( This post was last modified: 02-20-2021, 01:30 PM by Styx38 )
(02-18-2021, 05:11 AM)Balam Wrote:
(02-18-2021, 04:44 AM)Styx38 Wrote:
(02-17-2021, 02:29 AM)Balam Wrote:
(02-17-2021, 02:05 AM)Styx38 Wrote:
(02-17-2021, 12:27 AM)Balam Wrote:
(02-13-2021, 10:45 AM)Styx38 Wrote: Leopard with Crocodile kill.
"December 3, 2016. Road above Borupanwila in Wilpattu. After lunch our safari driver Ajith told us to go for a walk without resting so we started our journey in the jeep. Ajith said that there was a tiger parked on the road above Borupanwila but we could not see anything. At the same time, the tiger ran across the road and jumped to the other side unimaginably fast. Disappointed, we put our cameras on the seats and stared at the empty road. At the same time, the tiger was dragged by the neck of a huge crocodile and came running across the road again."
This was not a kill, it was posted originally here and according to OP the encounter lasted 1.5 hours, in which the crocodile ended up prevailing:
*This image is copyright of its original author
The only mention of the Crocodile escaping was from that Chinese Forum.
When I saw the facebook posts for the actual Sri Lankan poster, I did not find any mention of the Crocodile escaping.
They were amazed at a unique photo of a Leopard catching a Crocodile, and the main poster was whining that he did not send it to Nat Geo due to thinking it was an amateur photo.
*This image is copyright of its original author
*This image is copyright of its original author
*This image is copyright of its original author
Quote:The only mention of the Crocodile escaping was from that Chinese Forum.
The "Chinese site" had a post on the interaction dating back to 2017, the Facebook post was made in 2020, in the 2017 post the name of the guide is mentioned and later corroborated by the Facebook post, so it wasn't any random post, not to mention that in the 2017 post the picture included is that of the actual camera showing the shot in it.
Quote:When I saw the facebook posts for the actual Sri Lankan poster, I did not find any mention of the Crocodile escaping.
And in the Facebook post there is no mention of the leopard killing the crocodile either:
*This image is copyright of its original author
The translation is rough, but it could be applied that the crocodile returned to the scene later on, no mention of successful predation or kill is specified here. What is specified is that they could not focus clearly on the scene, so any derived conclusion of the leopard killing the crocodile would be false.
Quote:They were amazed at a unique photo of a Leopard catching a Crocodile, and the main poster was whining that he did not send it to Nat Geo due to thinking it was an amateur photo.
I scrolled through the comments as well, nowhere in there does the photographer states that the leopard killed the crocodile, other commenters unrelated to the scene are the ones doing that. He states that it wouldn't have been the first case a leopard would have hunted a crocodile without stating that that specific situation ended up with the crocodile dead, it is likely he wanted to say "attempted to hunt a crocodile".
In fact, in your last screenshot he clearly said that the scene was not fully captured, so to look at that and arrive at the conclusion that the leopard killed the crocodile is dishonest.
1. The Chinese poster did not post a link for that incident, so he could have made it up.
2. The facebook post translation, both from google translate and on my phone states that the Leopard dragged the Crocodile away in a rough translation. That is where it ends. The remainder of the comments are celebrating this event, with a couple of comments even joking that the Crocodile is a tasty meal. So there is more or less an implication that the Leopard got the Crocodile as a meal.
Quote:For crocodiles killed that are closer to the size of leopards (one case in Africa and another, different, alleged case in Sri Lanka) the crocodile is always inland, and with the African case, the desertic and dry terrain leads us to suggest that the crocodile was dehydrated and emaciated, this is very much common sense.
Interesting how you accuse us as either being dishonest or having a strong Leopard bias, but you make up your own theories.
For the Leopard killing the Crocodile in Africa, the photographer himself stated that the Leopard actually jumped in the water to catch the Crocodile.
Mobile version:
"I was photographing hippos at a waterhole in Kruger National Park South Africa when out of nowhere, a speeding shape comes out of the bush and hits the water. I swing my camera and begin shooting before I even know what it is. I realize, looking through the lens, that it is a leopard that has snatched a crocodile from the water. They tumble and fight for less than a minute before the leopard begins dragging the crocodile up the bank and back into the bush. It disappears into the grass. Two minutes later it appears again farther into the bush, the bloody crocodile now hangs lifeless and limp from its jaws. I wanted so badly to follow them"
News article version:
"The American wildlife photographer was taking pictures of hippos from his car at a waterhole in Kruger National Park when a speeding shape came out of the bushes and headed for the water.
After an initial struggle, onlookers stared in disbelief as the leopard emerged dragging a thrashing crocodile up the bank.
With its' snout pointing upwards, the crocodile snapped and attempted to fight back as the predators flipped and tumbled in a dramatic battle.
But the leopard, who had it caught by the throat, remained in control as the crocodile's legs clawed frantically at the cat's belly, its jaws snapping at air."
For the Sri Lankan one, we do not know how long the Crocodile was on dry land.
However, Wilpattu is considered a wetland, so the Crocodile may have not been out that long on land.
1. How many times will this have to be explained? The poster mentioned the name of the guide and the picture shown is of the camera itself. This is information and footage that only someone who was present in the event could've had, and since the post was made a year after the incident and much before the Facebook post, it takes precedent over the most recent one (not that the two posts were contradicting themselves to begin with). You said the crocodile had been killed, that was a lie.
2. Why are you trying to use the opinions of random posters who were not present in the event and did not see it happen firsthand? What weight do their opinions have? None. They are simply stating hyperbolic statements because they were amused at the event. You trying to discredit someone who had firsthand pictures and information on the case while using random people unrelated to it to try to corroborate your claims because you do not like that the leopard did not kill the crocodile as you wished it had is indeed deceptive and an example of extreme bias.
I can make my own theories the way you and others were making here, the difference is that I'm not making definitive statements and claiming a specific outcome when I don't have the information to make those statements and where different posts have suggested something different.
Quote:For the Leopard killing the Crocodile in Africa, the photographer himself stated that the Leopard actually jumped in the water to catch the Crocodile.
By all means, link the "mobile version" here to read it thoroughly, certainly the DialyMail article did not mention anything about the leopard pulling the crocodile out of the water.
Quote:1. How many times will this have to be explained? The poster mentioned the name of the guide and the picture shown is of the camera itself. This is information and footage that only someone who was present in the event could've had, and since the post was made a year after the incident and much before the Facebook post, it takes precedent over the most recent one (not that the two posts were contradicting themselves to begin with). You said the crocodile had been killed, that was a lie.
2. Why are you trying to use the opinions of random posters who were not present in the event and did not see it happen firsthand? What weight do their opinions have? None. They are simply stating hyperbolic statements because they were amused at the event. You trying to discredit someone who had firsthand pictures and information on the case while using random people unrelated to it to try to corroborate your claims because you do not like that the leopard did not kill the crocodile as you wished it had is indeed deceptive and an example of extreme bias.
Shouldn't you be switching the people?
The Chinese poster posted a picture with his own word and no actual link. He can use the name of the guide along with a photo, and add his own story. That seems to be common in those forums.
The main guy stated that the Leopard dragged away the Crocodile. No further mention of an extra struggle or the Crocodile getting away.
The "random posters" looked to either be his friends or discussion group members. He would have replied to them more since they all further state that the Crocodile formed the meal or praise him for the shot.
Thus, it seems from that facebook post the Leopard killed the Crocodile. There is no deception apart for that Chinese forum.
Quote:By all means, link the "mobile version" here to read it thoroughly, certainly the DialyMail article did not mention anything about the leopard pulling the crocodile out of the water.
Really?.
Cause the DailyMail article gave a good description here:
"The American wildlife photographer was taking pictures of hippos from his car at a waterhole in Kruger National Park when a speeding shape came out of the bushes and headed for the water.
After an initial struggle, onlookers stared in disbelief as the leopard emerged dragging a thrashing crocodile up the bank."
Seems to have dragged the Crocodile out of the water and out of dry land.
Here is a more precise description of the incident from a Kenyan Newsletter.
"The photographs were taken by Hal Brindley, an American wildlife photographer, who was supposed to be taking pictures of hippos from his car in the Kruger National Park. The giant cat raced out of cover provided by scrub and bushes to surprise the crocodile, which was swimming nearby.
Eventually, onlookers were amazed to see the leopard drag the crocodile from the water as the reptile fought back"
Quote:I can make my own theories the way you and others were making here, the difference is that I'm not making definitive statements and claiming a specific outcome when I don't have the information to make those statements and where different posts have suggested something different.
Simple. Don't make bold claims if you have a theory but no legitimate evidence.
You could have easily avoided posting this.
You acted like your theory was so obvious without any actual research on that part with the "common sense" remark.
Quote:For crocodiles killed that are closer to the size of leopards (one case in Africa and another, different, alleged case in Sri Lanka) the crocodile is always inland, and with the African case, the desertic and dry terrain leads us to suggest that the crocodile was dehydrated and emaciated, this is very much common sense.
(02-13-2021, 10:45 AM)Styx38 Wrote: Leopard with Crocodile kill.
"December 3, 2016. Road above Borupanwila in Wilpattu. After lunch our safari driver Ajith told us to go for a walk without resting so we started our journey in the jeep. Ajith said that there was a tiger parked on the road above Borupanwila but we could not see anything. At the same time, the tiger ran across the road and jumped to the other side unimaginably fast. Disappointed, we put our cameras on the seats and stared at the empty road. At the same time, the tiger was dragged by the neck of a huge crocodile and came running across the road again."
This was not a kill, it was posted originally here and according to OP the encounter lasted 1.5 hours, in which the crocodile ended up prevailing:
*This image is copyright of its original author
The only mention of the Crocodile escaping was from that Chinese Forum.
When I saw the facebook posts for the actual Sri Lankan poster, I did not find any mention of the Crocodile escaping.
They were amazed at a unique photo of a Leopard catching a Crocodile, and the main poster was whining that he did not send it to Nat Geo due to thinking it was an amateur photo.
*This image is copyright of its original author
*This image is copyright of its original author
*This image is copyright of its original author
Quote:The only mention of the Crocodile escaping was from that Chinese Forum.
The "Chinese site" had a post on the interaction dating back to 2017, the Facebook post was made in 2020, in the 2017 post the name of the guide is mentioned and later corroborated by the Facebook post, so it wasn't any random post, not to mention that in the 2017 post the picture included is that of the actual camera showing the shot in it.
Quote:When I saw the facebook posts for the actual Sri Lankan poster, I did not find any mention of the Crocodile escaping.
And in the Facebook post there is no mention of the leopard killing the crocodile either:
*This image is copyright of its original author
The translation is rough, but it could be applied that the crocodile returned to the scene later on, no mention of successful predation or kill is specified here. What is specified is that they could not focus clearly on the scene, so any derived conclusion of the leopard killing the crocodile would be false.
Quote:They were amazed at a unique photo of a Leopard catching a Crocodile, and the main poster was whining that he did not send it to Nat Geo due to thinking it was an amateur photo.
I scrolled through the comments as well, nowhere in there does the photographer states that the leopard killed the crocodile, other commenters unrelated to the scene are the ones doing that. He states that it wouldn't have been the first case a leopard would have hunted a crocodile without stating that that specific situation ended up with the crocodile dead, it is likely he wanted to say "attempted to hunt a crocodile".
In fact, in your last screenshot he clearly said that the scene was not fully captured, so to look at that and arrive at the conclusion that the leopard killed the crocodile is dishonest.
1. The Chinese poster did not post a link for that incident, so he could have made it up.
2. The facebook post translation, both from google translate and on my phone states that the Leopard dragged the Crocodile away in a rough translation. That is where it ends. The remainder of the comments are celebrating this event, with a couple of comments even joking that the Crocodile is a tasty meal. So there is more or less an implication that the Leopard got the Crocodile as a meal.
Quote:For crocodiles killed that are closer to the size of leopards (one case in Africa and another, different, alleged case in Sri Lanka) the crocodile is always inland, and with the African case, the desertic and dry terrain leads us to suggest that the crocodile was dehydrated and emaciated, this is very much common sense.
Interesting how you accuse us as either being dishonest or having a strong Leopard bias, but you make up your own theories.
For the Leopard killing the Crocodile in Africa, the photographer himself stated that the Leopard actually jumped in the water to catch the Crocodile.
Mobile version:
"I was photographing hippos at a waterhole in Kruger National Park South Africa when out of nowhere, a speeding shape comes out of the bush and hits the water. I swing my camera and begin shooting before I even know what it is. I realize, looking through the lens, that it is a leopard that has snatched a crocodile from the water. They tumble and fight for less than a minute before the leopard begins dragging the crocodile up the bank and back into the bush. It disappears into the grass. Two minutes later it appears again farther into the bush, the bloody crocodile now hangs lifeless and limp from its jaws. I wanted so badly to follow them"
News article version:
"The American wildlife photographer was taking pictures of hippos from his car at a waterhole in Kruger National Park when a speeding shape came out of the bushes and headed for the water.
After an initial struggle, onlookers stared in disbelief as the leopard emerged dragging a thrashing crocodile up the bank.
With its' snout pointing upwards, the crocodile snapped and attempted to fight back as the predators flipped and tumbled in a dramatic battle.
But the leopard, who had it caught by the throat, remained in control as the crocodile's legs clawed frantically at the cat's belly, its jaws snapping at air."
For the Sri Lankan one, we do not know how long the Crocodile was on dry land.
However, Wilpattu is considered a wetland, so the Crocodile may have not been out that long on land.
1. How many times will this have to be explained? The poster mentioned the name of the guide and the picture shown is of the camera itself. This is information and footage that only someone who was present in the event could've had, and since the post was made a year after the incident and much before the Facebook post, it takes precedent over the most recent one (not that the two posts were contradicting themselves to begin with). You said the crocodile had been killed, that was a lie.
2. Why are you trying to use the opinions of random posters who were not present in the event and did not see it happen firsthand? What weight do their opinions have? None. They are simply stating hyperbolic statements because they were amused at the event. You trying to discredit someone who had firsthand pictures and information on the case while using random people unrelated to it to try to corroborate your claims because you do not like that the leopard did not kill the crocodile as you wished it had is indeed deceptive and an example of extreme bias.
I can make my own theories the way you and others were making here, the difference is that I'm not making definitive statements and claiming a specific outcome when I don't have the information to make those statements and where different posts have suggested something different.
Quote:For the Leopard killing the Crocodile in Africa, the photographer himself stated that the Leopard actually jumped in the water to catch the Crocodile.
By all means, link the "mobile version" here to read it thoroughly, certainly the DialyMail article did not mention anything about the leopard pulling the crocodile out of the water.
Quote:1. How many times will this have to be explained? The poster mentioned the name of the guide and the picture shown is of the camera itself. This is information and footage that only someone who was present in the event could've had, and since the post was made a year after the incident and much before the Facebook post, it takes precedent over the most recent one (not that the two posts were contradicting themselves to begin with). You said the crocodile had been killed, that was a lie.
2. Why are you trying to use the opinions of random posters who were not present in the event and did not see it happen firsthand? What weight do their opinions have? None. They are simply stating hyperbolic statements because they were amused at the event. You trying to discredit someone who had firsthand pictures and information on the case while using random people unrelated to it to try to corroborate your claims because you do not like that the leopard did not kill the crocodile as you wished it had is indeed deceptive and an example of extreme bias.
Shouldn't you be switching the people?
The Chinese poster posted a picture with his own word and no actual link. He can use the name of the guide along with a photo, and add his own story. That seems to be common in those forums.
The main guy stated that the Leopard dragged away the Crocodile. No further mention of an extra struggle or the Crocodile getting away.
The "random posters" looked to either be his friends or discussion group members. He would have replied to them more since they all further state that the Crocodile formed the meal or praise him for the shot.
Thus, it seems from that facebook post the Leopard killed the Crocodile. There is no deception apart for that Chinese forum.
Quote:By all means, link the "mobile version" here to read it thoroughly, certainly the DialyMail article did not mention anything about the leopard pulling the crocodile out of the water.
Really?.
Cause the DailyMail article gave a good description here:
"The American wildlife photographer was taking pictures of hippos from his car at a waterhole in Kruger National Park when a speeding shape came out of the bushes and headed for the water.
After an initial struggle, onlookers stared in disbelief as the leopard emerged dragging a thrashing crocodile up the bank."
Seems to have dragged the Crocodile out of the water and out of dry land.
Here is a more precise description of the incident from a Kenyan Newsletter.
"The photographs were taken by Hal Brindley, an American wildlife photographer, who was supposed to be taking pictures of hippos from his car in the Kruger National Park. The giant cat raced out of cover provided by scrub and bushes to surprise the crocodile, which was swimming nearby.
Eventually, onlookers were amazed to see the leopard drag the crocodile from the water as the reptile fought back"
Quote:I can make my own theories the way you and others were making here, the difference is that I'm not making definitive statements and claiming a specific outcome when I don't have the information to make those statements and where different posts have suggested something different.
Simple. Don't make bold claims if you have a theory but no legitimate evidence.
You could have easily avoided posting this.
You acted like your theory was so obvious without any actual research on that part with the "common sense" remark.
Quote:For crocodiles killed that are closer to the size of leopards (one case in Africa and another, different, alleged case in Sri Lanka) the crocodile is always inland, and with the African case, the desertic and dry terrain leads us to suggest that the crocodile was dehydrated and emaciated, this is very much common sense.
It should be noted that not a single thing in this replies contradicts the points I made before or gives proof to substantiate the claims that the leopard killed the crocodile in the Yala interaction. So the verdict can be concluded that you lied to try to hype the leopard, jumping to conclusions with very little to no further evidence to substantiate your claims.
I'm not going on circles on this, the leopard did not kill the crocodile. End of discussion.
When I was in Botswana many years ago, I heard a story from rangers about two young nomadic male lions hunted crocodiles together. The two initially aimed at small crocodiles, but as they became proficient they hunted crocodiles up to big one (4-5m long). They used a strategy of ambushing a sleeping crocodile, while one caught the crocodile's attention while the other was aiming at the nape of the neck.
What is certain is that the crocodile succeeds in attacking when both herbivores or carnivores swim or aiming to be defenseless.
I am always curious why big herbivores like elephants, rhinos, giraffes, and cape buffaloes never fight back. If they were attacked by either a big or small crocodile, they don't think of revenge by counterattacking even if it was on the land. They just let crocodile go.Other buffalos or elephants don't even help their friends, they just watch unlike they are dealing crazy against lions, other carnivores, and humans. I think hippos are the only animals fight back to crocodiles when they see crocs are attacking another hippo or other animals. Humans are also opposite, we always take revenge. I would definitely help another buffalo if I see a crocodile was biting him or her. Had I been an elephant and the crocodile bit my nose, I would have dragged the crocodile straight to land and beat the F**K out of that crocodile. I would kill the crocodile really painfully by trampling it on its head.
04-30-2021, 05:29 AM( This post was last modified: 05-01-2021, 12:36 AM by lionjaguar )
(10-19-2020, 12:28 PM)TheSmok Wrote: Shadow
[quote pid='130087' dateline='1603088276'] And what comes to it, from where this started now, I find it interesting, that with time I had to change my opinion. I thought a long time, that crocodiles simply dominate lions, but with time I have changed my mind. Big cats seem to be able to handle crocodiles surprisingly well, when they need to. I have found far more cases of lions killing crocodiles than vice versa. Overall when looking at big cats and crocodiles, known incidents leading to death of one, seem to be usually such, that crocodile is killed.
Perhaps you are currently underestimating the number of cases where crocodiles killing big cats.
Mark Ross, an experienced safari guide, knows two cases when crocodile stalked and killed a male lion. In both cases, there was not much struggle:
Quote:Hunting Anything and everything is on a crocodile's menu. I know of two cases in which a crocodile stalked and successfully killed a male lion. And in both cases it wasn't much of a fight once the crocodile got the lion into the water.
A well-known case describing a male lion killed by a crocodile:
Quote:Mid 2007, one of the Roller Coaster males was killed by a Crocodile. Since then, his brother has maintained dominance over the Styx pride and is believed to be the Sire of their current cubs. There have been a number of reports of the Styx lionesses seen mating with males from the Mapogo Coalition but the old Roller Coaster male is usually in attendance with the Styx pride and accepts the cubs as his. So don’t tell him they might not all be his.
Quote:Apparently, two weeks ago the Mapogo Males were drinking from the Sand river in Londolozi Game Reserve when a crocodile attacked and killed one of them at the waters edge it would be the second male lion killed by a crocodile on the Sabi Sands in the past few months as one of the Rollercoaster males (Mala Mala name, they are the Shaws Males on Londolozi) was also killed by a crocodile recently.
Rangers sighting reported in an African Wild Life magazine in 1964:
Quote:CROCODILE GRABS LION.
Two Bantu Rangers on patrol saw four lions drinking in the Olifants River. On seeing them the lions immediately sprang up and the only lioness in the pride charged towards the Rangers. At that moment a large crocodile grabbed one of the young lions by the hind leg and dragged him into the water
Recent photographs of a crocodile feeding on a lion. The original source states that in the first photo, the lion is still alive ("images taken in Kruger at the low level bridge on the H1-2. The first is a huge Croc in a tussle with a full grow Lion and a Barbel getting caught up in the battle"):
It is not known if this lioness was killed by a crocodile, but the same can be said for dead crocodiles photographed next to lions:
*This image is copyright of its original author
Quote:The Castleton pride, broken and fragmented, recently suffered the loss of four pride members. We topped the LTA dam wall to find a strange whitish object floating in the water. Only when we saw the teeth could we make out what it was… a lioness! Suddenly she disappeared under the water, only to rise again in the jaws of an enormous crocodile as it thrashed her from side to side! Whether she had been taken by the croc, or died on land and was pulled into the water by the large reptile was uncertain. Momentarily a hippopotamus arrived at the carcass, perhaps out of curiosity, and the crocodile moved on. In the shade of a nearby tree her sub-adult youngster sat and watched, emaciated and on the brink of death. It was painful to see her and after that we never saw the youngster again.We found a young male, also badly emaciated, lying next to a waterhole. My heart went out to him as I heard the not too distant bellows of a large (over 200) herd of buffalo. Instead of running away he hid in the grass and waited for them… perhaps his hunger had crazed him and he thought he might somehow snatch a calf from the herd. Perhaps he somehow knew his time had come. As the herd walked past him, one of the bulls spotted him, and gave a call I had never heard before. It was low, menacing, frightening. It was the call to attack.
Photo with a crocodile holding in its jaws what looks like a small lioness:
*This image is copyright of its original author
There are no specific observations, but this article, published in the journal LIFE on Dec 9, 1966, states that lions are a frequent prey of crocodiles in Okavango swamps:
This observation, published in The Age on Sep 18, 1897, is unusual in that it describes how a crocodile caught a lion on land. Moreover, in a fairly realistic context:
A recent observation of a lioness falling in the water and being taken by a crocodile:
*This image is copyright of its original author
*This image is copyright of its original author
Quote:These pictures were taken on game drive (at a distance), and are not for the sensitive. Mostly what we see is beautiful and or exciting; but there's no avoiding the reality of nature, it is honest and often brutal. One animal's mistake, is another's desperately needed meal. On this occasion, a lioness left her four cubs behind and put aside her feline dislike of water to cross the weir near Lower Sabi in the Kruger Park. On her return, she broke into a run and missed her footing, getting swept into the Sabi River, and the waiting jaws of a crocodile. We believe that the cubs are now being reared by another female from the pride. Thank you very much to Joey Vermeulen for the pics.
Account by Robert E. Coleman published in book "Conflicts in Nature" how a 1200 pound crocodile killed a male lion: https://books.google.ru/books?id=L8l1uThXdSoC&q
Account from the book "Among animals of Africa", 1970:
*This image is copyright of its original author
12 ft Nile crocodile killed an adult male lion, from the book "Animals in Their Places: Tales from the Natural World", 1987:
Quote:The year before a large and aggressive male had ruled the pride, but he had fallen ill with a parasite infestation and the sicker he had gotten the less alert he had become. One evening, just at dusk, he had been down on the sand flats lapping water from one of the streams that marked the course of the parent river. He had died an unlikely death, held underwater in the jaws of a twelve-foot Nile crocodile.
Locals report that crocodiles kill lions. Anecdotal report from "Drum: A Magazine of Africa for Africa. African Drum Publications", 1996:
Quote:..."What do Nile crocodiles eat?" I asked. "Nile crocodiles prey mainly on wildebeest, gazelles, buffalo, wild dogs and lions that come to the water to drink...
David Paynter and Wilf Nussey in book "Kruger: portrait of a national park" (1986) mention that Nile crocodiles kill fully grown male lions:
Quote:A crocodile dragging an antelope into the water may be a grim sight but the crocodile is fulfilling a purely natural need - to ... Crocodiles have been seen dragging full-grown buffalo bulls and even male lions to a watery death - not surprising...
Quote:There's a well-authenticated story of a crocodile which knocked three drinking lions into a river with one sweep of its tail-and the rest of the crocs made short work of them!
Guggisberg in his book "Crocodiles: Their Natural History, Folklore and Conservation" also describes the discovery of lion's claws in the stomach of a crocodile. Some additional photos have been posted in this thread by other users.
So I would not say that crocodiles rarely kill lions, there are also many old accounts of crocodiles killing tigers. Perhaps in the past, when there were more lions and tigers, this happened more often than now, as many old accounts show. Nowadays, there are many cases of crocodile predation on leopards, which are the most common and numerous big cats.
[/quote]
Thanks for your valuable post. I only heard one interaction between Asiatic lions and crocodiles. I saw a picture of one Asiatic lion killed and eating mugger crocodile.
04-30-2021, 05:37 AM( This post was last modified: 05-01-2021, 12:36 AM by lionjaguar )
(10-18-2020, 05:49 PM)Pckts Wrote: I agree, I've not heard of any lions who've been specialized Croc killers. There is a reason Lions hate water and that is because of what lurks not because they get their mane wet.
That's 100% not true. Most cat species don't like water. Amazonian jaguars love water even though they coexist with black caimans. Okavango lions often swim and enjoy water even though Nile crocodiles are common in the Okavango Delta.
There is no such as either animals will be superior and cats will afraid of water due to bigger crocodiles like Nile crocodiles. Lions are not really built for hunting and killing unlike other cats. They have the worst hunting skills compared to other cats. They seemed less agile too. If lions were equal as jaguars, then there will be more interesting interaction between Nile crocodiles and lions.
04-30-2021, 05:43 AM( This post was last modified: 05-01-2021, 12:35 AM by lionjaguar )
(10-18-2020, 03:10 PM)TheSmok Wrote:
(08-15-2020, 08:52 PM)Bitishannah Wrote: Kleptoparasitism by Morelets croc on jaguar kill.
Here is a detailed description of this observation:
*This image is copyright of its original author
*This image is copyright of its original author
*This image is copyright of its original author
*This image is copyright of its original author
However, Morelet's crocodiles are not only able to take prey from jaguars at the water's edge. Here is a recent observation of an adult Morelet's crocodile preying on a young jaguar in Belize:
Quote:Cancun.- The President of the Republic, Andrés Manuel López Obrador, published on his Twitter account a video in which a crocodile chases and reaches a jaguar in the Cobá lagoon. "Sometimes the kingdom of nature is cruel, look at the desperate and useless flight of a young jaguar that faced a lizard in the Cobá lagoon, Quintana Roo," the president wrote.
The video is one minute long, shot from afar. There you see a jaguar, swimming in the lagoon, in vain trying to reach the shore, with a crocodile following it, which reaches it and attacks. Uploaded last night, the video already has 336 thousand views.
Morelet's crocodiles over 3m are really big one. They are also normally lighter than 100 kg. Most of accidents were probably subadult jaguars. It's not likely that an adult Central American jaguar weighing 50-60 kg will be kill by a Morelet's crocodile unless they were in a deep water.
(10-18-2020, 05:49 PM)Pckts Wrote: I agree, I've not heard of any lions who've been specialized Croc killers. There is a reason Lions hate water and that is because of what lurks not because they get their mane wet.
That's 100% not true. Most cat species don't like water. Amazonian jaguars love water even though they coexist with black caimans. Okavango lions often swim and enjoy water even though Nile crocodiles are common in the Okavango Delta.
There is no such as either animals will be superior and cats will afraid of water due to bigger crocodiles like Nile crocodiles. Lions are not really built for hunting and killing unlike other cats. They have the worst hunting skills compared to other cats. They seemed less agile too. If lions were equal as jaguars, then they will be more interesting interaction between Nile crocodiles and lions.
Jaguars rarely cross path's with Black Caimans.
And I'm curious, when exactly do you think Lions are wading into Croc infested waters in the Delta and when they do, do you think they have another choice?
I'm not sure where you get the idea that they "enjoy" the water? They certainly don't and would prefer the safer dry land but they've adapted in the Delta since they have no choice. I also disagree about your claims in regards to a Lions hunting prowess, I believe that is untrue as well.
Lastly, Jaguars would not behave the way they do in Pantanal if the waters were filled with Nile Crocs and Hippos they are just offered the luxury of not having to deal with them.
05-01-2021, 12:34 AM( This post was last modified: 05-01-2021, 01:07 AM by lionjaguar )
(04-30-2021, 10:18 PM)Pckts Wrote:
(04-30-2021, 05:37 AM)lionjaguar Wrote:
(10-18-2020, 05:49 PM)Pckts Wrote: I agree, I've not heard of any lions who've been specialized Croc killers. There is a reason Lions hate water and that is because of what lurks not because they get their mane wet.
That's 100% not true. Most cat species don't like water. Amazonian jaguars love water even though they coexist with black caimans. Okavango lions often swim and enjoy water even though Nile crocodiles are common in the Okavango Delta.
There is no such as either animals will be superior and cats will afraid of water due to bigger crocodiles like Nile crocodiles. Lions are not really built for hunting and killing unlike other cats. They have the worst hunting skills compared to other cats. They seemed less agile too. If lions were equal as jaguars, then there will be more interesting interaction between Nile crocodiles and lions.
Jaguars rarely cross path's with Black Caimans.
And I'm curious, when exactly do you think Lions are wading into Croc infested waters in the Delta and when they do, do you think they have another choice?
I'm not sure where you get the idea that they "enjoy" the water? They certainly don't and would prefer the safer dry land but they've adapted in the Delta since they have no choice. I also disagree about your claims in regards to a Lions hunting prowess, I believe that is untrue as well.
Lastly, Jaguars would not behave the way they do in Pantanal if the waters were filled with Nile Crocs and Hippos they are just offered the luxury of not having to deal with them.
Of course they are avoiding water because of crocodiles. But many captive lions also don't spend their time in water. Have you seen captive lions love water? Where is your evidence claiming that cat species hate water because of crocodiles? My neighbor's cats hate water. They have never seen any crocodiles, alligators, and caimans. Are you going to tell me that they evolved to hate water just because of crocodiles or alligators? Have you seen other urban bobcats? Most cat species don't like water.
My dad was in the US military and I lived in Africa for 2 years. I think lions had one of the worst hunting skills when they hunt alone. If you think the lion has the same hunting skills as many other cats, then you should watch more videos and lions. There's also one video in youtube that comparing skills between one jaguar and 2 male lions. A jaguar was way superior than male lions. When I find that video again, I'll post it. Their agility and hunting skills do not develop like other cats. Africa is the only continent where many abundant numbers of huge herbivores had survived unlike other continents. I believe lions have evolved further to make them suitable for hunting as a group and a big herbivores in Africa. This is just my thoughts. Don't be angry like you are always arguing with other users.
You probably need to read more careful. Why are you bring up hippo? When did I wrote hippo? I did not said jaguars will be superior or enjoy water if Nile crocodiles are in Pantanal. I said there will be more interesting interactions between crocodiles and lions if lions were the same as jaguars. I am referring jagaurs are preferring reptiles and their reptile hunting skills if you still don't understand. Lions are bigger and stronger than jaguars. They are also social cats and hunt together. Imagine that lions have both merits on their sociality and jaguar's caiman hunting skills. I read many youtube comments that jaguars can't stand chance against Nile crocodiles even if Nile crocodiles were small as caimans. That's 100% false. Nile crocodiles or even Saltwater crocodiles will be the perfect food source to jaguars just like caimans in Pantanal.
(10-18-2020, 05:49 PM)Pckts Wrote: I agree, I've not heard of any lions who've been specialized Croc killers. There is a reason Lions hate water and that is because of what lurks not because they get their mane wet.
That's 100% not true. Most cat species don't like water. Amazonian jaguars love water even though they coexist with black caimans. Okavango lions often swim and enjoy water even though Nile crocodiles are common in the Okavango Delta.
There is no such as either animals will be superior and cats will afraid of water due to bigger crocodiles like Nile crocodiles. Lions are not really built for hunting and killing unlike other cats. They have the worst hunting skills compared to other cats. They seemed less agile too. If lions were equal as jaguars, then there will be more interesting interaction between Nile crocodiles and lions.
Jaguars rarely cross path's with Black Caimans.
And I'm curious, when exactly do you think Lions are wading into Croc infested waters in the Delta and when they do, do you think they have another choice?
I'm not sure where you get the idea that they "enjoy" the water? They certainly don't and would prefer the safer dry land but they've adapted in the Delta since they have no choice. I also disagree about your claims in regards to a Lions hunting prowess, I believe that is untrue as well.
Lastly, Jaguars would not behave the way they do in Pantanal if the waters were filled with Nile Crocs and Hippos they are just offered the luxury of not having to deal with them.
Of course they are avoiding water because of crocodiles. But many captive lions also don't spend their time in water. Have you seen captive lions love water? Where is your evidence claiming that cat species hate water because of crocodiles? My neighbor's cats hate water. They have never seen any crocodiles, alligators, and caimans. Are you going to tell me that they evolved to hate water just because of crocodiles or alligators? Have you seen other urban bobcats? Most cat species don't like water.
My dad was in the US military and I lived in Africa for 2 years. I think lions had one of the worst hunting skills when they hunt alone. If you think the lion has the same hunting skills as many other cats, then you should watch more videos and lions. There's also one video in youtube that comparing skills between one jaguar and 2 male lions. A jaguar was way superior than male lions. When I find that video again, I'll post it. Their agility and hunting skills do not develop like other cats. Africa is the only continent where many abundant numbers of huge herbivores had survived unlike other continents. I believe lions have evolved further to make them suitable for hunting as a group and a big herbivores in Africa.
You probably need to read more careful. Why are you bring up hippo? When did I wrote hippo? I did not said jaguars will be superior or enjoy water if Nile crocodiles are in Pantanal. I said there will be more interesting interactions between crocodiles and lions if lions were the same as jaguars. I am referring jagaurs are preferring reptiles and their reptile hunting skills if you still don't understand. Lions are bigger and stronger than jaguars. They are also social cats and hunt together.
In regards to Lions and water, you're all over the board, it's tough to read your point.
The hunting claim is baseless though, I could post video after video of Lions successfully hunting alone and doing so against large prey. But if you already have this preconceived notion that they are "bad hunters" then it will do no good. In regards to a hunting test between a Jaguar and 2 male lions, I'm sure it's a captive setting and there are many other factors that come into play. Jaguars are much more suited to hunt in water or in short bursts on land while Lions are more suited to hunt in a longer chase on land. You need to understand their morphological differences and how they play a role in their hunting tactics.
(10-18-2020, 05:49 PM)Pckts Wrote: I agree, I've not heard of any lions who've been specialized Croc killers. There is a reason Lions hate water and that is because of what lurks not because they get their mane wet.
That's 100% not true. Most cat species don't like water. Amazonian jaguars love water even though they coexist with black caimans. Okavango lions often swim and enjoy water even though Nile crocodiles are common in the Okavango Delta.
There is no such as either animals will be superior and cats will afraid of water due to bigger crocodiles like Nile crocodiles. Lions are not really built for hunting and killing unlike other cats. They have the worst hunting skills compared to other cats. They seemed less agile too. If lions were equal as jaguars, then there will be more interesting interaction between Nile crocodiles and lions.
Jaguars rarely cross path's with Black Caimans.
And I'm curious, when exactly do you think Lions are wading into Croc infested waters in the Delta and when they do, do you think they have another choice?
I'm not sure where you get the idea that they "enjoy" the water? They certainly don't and would prefer the safer dry land but they've adapted in the Delta since they have no choice. I also disagree about your claims in regards to a Lions hunting prowess, I believe that is untrue as well.
Lastly, Jaguars would not behave the way they do in Pantanal if the waters were filled with Nile Crocs and Hippos they are just offered the luxury of not having to deal with them.
Of course they are avoiding water because of crocodiles. But many captive lions also don't spend their time in water. Have you seen captive lions love water? Where is your evidence claiming that cat species hate water because of crocodiles? My neighbor's cats hate water. They have never seen any crocodiles, alligators, and caimans. Are you going to tell me that they evolved to hate water just because of crocodiles or alligators? Have you seen other urban bobcats? Most cat species don't like water.
My dad was in the US military and I lived in Africa for 2 years. I think lions had one of the worst hunting skills when they hunt alone. If you think the lion has the same hunting skills as many other cats, then you should watch more videos and lions. There's also one video in youtube that comparing skills between one jaguar and 2 male lions. A jaguar was way superior than male lions. When I find that video again, I'll post it. Their agility and hunting skills do not develop like other cats. Africa is the only continent where many abundant numbers of huge herbivores had survived unlike other continents. I believe lions have evolved further to make them suitable for hunting as a group and a big herbivores in Africa.
You probably need to read more careful. Why are you bring up hippo? When did I wrote hippo? I did not said jaguars will be superior or enjoy water if Nile crocodiles are in Pantanal. I said there will be more interesting interactions between crocodiles and lions if lions were the same as jaguars. I am referring jagaurs are preferring reptiles and their reptile hunting skills if you still don't understand. Lions are bigger and stronger than jaguars. They are also social cats and hunt together.
In regards to Lions and water, you're all over the board, it's tough to read your point.
The hunting claim is baseless though, I could post video after video of Lions successfully hunting alone and doing so against large prey. But if you already have this preconceived notion that they are "bad hunters" then it will do no good. In regards to a hunting test between a Jaguar and 2 male lions, I'm sure it's a captive setting and there are many other factors that come into play. Jaguars are much more suited to hunt in water or in short bursts on land while Lions are more suited to hunt in a longer chase on land. You need to understand their morphological differences and how they play a role in their hunting tactics.
I added some sentences. You probably missed it. Imagine that lions have both merits on their sociality and jaguar's caiman hunting skills. I read many youtube comments that jaguars can't stand chance against Nile crocodiles even if Nile crocodiles were small as caimans. That's 100% false. Nile crocodiles or even Saltwater crocodiles will be the perfect food source to jaguars just like caimans in Pantanal.
(10-18-2020, 05:49 PM)Pckts Wrote: I agree, I've not heard of any lions who've been specialized Croc killers. There is a reason Lions hate water and that is because of what lurks not because they get their mane wet.
That's 100% not true. Most cat species don't like water. Amazonian jaguars love water even though they coexist with black caimans. Okavango lions often swim and enjoy water even though Nile crocodiles are common in the Okavango Delta.
There is no such as either animals will be superior and cats will afraid of water due to bigger crocodiles like Nile crocodiles. Lions are not really built for hunting and killing unlike other cats. They have the worst hunting skills compared to other cats. They seemed less agile too. If lions were equal as jaguars, then there will be more interesting interaction between Nile crocodiles and lions.
Jaguars rarely cross path's with Black Caimans.
And I'm curious, when exactly do you think Lions are wading into Croc infested waters in the Delta and when they do, do you think they have another choice?
I'm not sure where you get the idea that they "enjoy" the water? They certainly don't and would prefer the safer dry land but they've adapted in the Delta since they have no choice. I also disagree about your claims in regards to a Lions hunting prowess, I believe that is untrue as well.
Lastly, Jaguars would not behave the way they do in Pantanal if the waters were filled with Nile Crocs and Hippos they are just offered the luxury of not having to deal with them.
Of course they are avoiding water because of crocodiles. But many captive lions also don't spend their time in water. Have you seen captive lions love water? Where is your evidence claiming that cat species hate water because of crocodiles? My neighbor's cats hate water. They have never seen any crocodiles, alligators, and caimans. Are you going to tell me that they evolved to hate water just because of crocodiles or alligators? Have you seen other urban bobcats? Most cat species don't like water.
My dad was in the US military and I lived in Africa for 2 years. I think lions had one of the worst hunting skills when they hunt alone. If you think the lion has the same hunting skills as many other cats, then you should watch more videos and lions. There's also one video in youtube that comparing skills between one jaguar and 2 male lions. A jaguar was way superior than male lions. When I find that video again, I'll post it. Their agility and hunting skills do not develop like other cats. Africa is the only continent where many abundant numbers of huge herbivores had survived unlike other continents. I believe lions have evolved further to make them suitable for hunting as a group and a big herbivores in Africa.
You probably need to read more careful. Why are you bring up hippo? When did I wrote hippo? I did not said jaguars will be superior or enjoy water if Nile crocodiles are in Pantanal. I said there will be more interesting interactions between crocodiles and lions if lions were the same as jaguars. I am referring jagaurs are preferring reptiles and their reptile hunting skills if you still don't understand. Lions are bigger and stronger than jaguars. They are also social cats and hunt together.
In regards to Lions and water, you're all over the board, it's tough to read your point.
The hunting claim is baseless though, I could post video after video of Lions successfully hunting alone and doing so against large prey. But if you already have this preconceived notion that they are "bad hunters" then it will do no good. In regards to a hunting test between a Jaguar and 2 male lions, I'm sure it's a captive setting and there are many other factors that come into play. Jaguars are much more suited to hunt in water or in short bursts on land while Lions are more suited to hunt in a longer chase on land. You need to understand their morphological differences and how they play a role in their hunting tactics.
I added some sentences. You probably missed it. Imagine that lions have both merits on their sociality and jaguar's caiman hunting skills. I read many youtube comments that jaguars can't stand chance against Nile crocodiles even if Nile crocodiles were small as caimans. That's 100% false. Nile crocodiles or even Saltwater crocodiles will be the perfect food source to jaguars just like caimans in Pantanal.
A full grown saltie or Nile crocodile is too big for any jaguar to tackle and the much larger lion would have better chances with them. Still, the largest crocodiles are above then size range of what any big cat can take.
In the Orinoco Llanos jaguars coexist with crocodiles that are just as big as Nile crocodiles, this would be the best area to study crocodile-jaguar interactions, especially considering Llanos Jaguars are among the greatest. Due to overhunting the population of Orinoco crocodiles became very small so recording interactions between is close to impossible.
Crocodile and Big cats Interaction
