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Crocodile and Big cats Interaction

Venezuela epaiva Offline
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#76

It is a Jaguar for sure, not a big one it was a young Jaguar or a small female. Ocelots weight up to 16 kilograms it was not a Ocelot. It was filmed in the Amazon of Brazil where Jaguars don't grow much normally weighting under 60  kilograms. It was a big Black Caiman at least 4 meters long
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United States Pckts Offline
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#77

Paulo says it could be a Jag, he'll analyze the video later when he has his laptop to confirm.
"Imagination was given to man to compensate him for what he is not, and a sense of humor was provided to console him for what he is."
-Oscar Wilde
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Germany Sammyfrosh Offline
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#78

(07-10-2019, 09:35 PM)Pckts Wrote: Paulo says it could be a Jag, he'll analyze the video later when he has his laptop to confirm.

I am really eager to know if it’s really a Jaguar
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United States Pckts Offline
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#79
( This post was last modified: 07-10-2019, 10:35 PM by Pckts )

@Sammyfrosh

If @epaiva says it's a jag then I'm sure it is, he's one of the most knowledgeable and experienced members we have here.

Black Caiman can grow huge, if Nile crocs can prey on Lions then without a doubt Black Caiman can prey on Jaguars. Even though Black Caiman are found in the Amazon I'd still wager on them being able to prey on Pantanal Jags as well, they can get that big and have a nasty reputation to back up the weapons.
"Imagination was given to man to compensate him for what he is not, and a sense of humor was provided to console him for what he is."
-Oscar Wilde
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Venezuela epaiva Offline
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#80
( This post was last modified: 07-10-2019, 11:28 PM by epaiva )

(07-10-2019, 10:33 PM)Pckts Wrote: @Sammyfrosh

If @epaiva says it's a jag then I'm sure it is, he's one of the most knowledgeable and experienced members we have here.

Black Caiman can grow huge, if Nile crocs can prey on Lions then without a doubt Black Caiman can prey on Jaguars. Even though Black Caiman are found in the Amazon I'd still wager on them being able to prey on Pantanal Jags as well, they can get that big and have a nasty reputation to back up the weapons.
@Pckts
Thanks a lot for your words my Friend, it would be very good if you can ask Paulo Barreiro if they have found skulls of Caiman jacare hunted by Jaguars so you can take good pictures of the marks left by the Jaguars on the Caiman's skulls. It would be great if you can take pictures and messurements of the largest skulls of big male Pantanal Jaguars they must have in their collection.
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United States Pckts Offline
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#81

(07-10-2019, 11:24 PM)epaiva Wrote:
(07-10-2019, 10:33 PM)Pckts Wrote: @Sammyfrosh

If @epaiva says it's a jag then I'm sure it is, he's one of the most knowledgeable and experienced members we have here.

Black Caiman can grow huge, if Nile crocs can prey on Lions then without a doubt Black Caiman can prey on Jaguars. Even though Black Caiman are found in the Amazon I'd still wager on them being able to prey on Pantanal Jags as well, they can get that big and have a nasty reputation to back up the weapons.
@Pckts
Thanks a lot for your words my Friend, it would be very good if you can ask Paulo Barreiro if they have found skulls of Caiman jacare hunted by Jaguars so you can take good pictures of the marks left by the Jaguars on the Caiman's skulls. It would be great if you can take pictures and messurements of the largest skulls of big male Pantanal Jaguars they must have in their collection.

You got it, I'll ask at dinner.
In regards to the Jag/Black Caiman account

Paulo brought up some good points just because the Jag was fairly intact he said that there is no way to know how the Jag ended up in the Caimans belly which is true but he definitely thinks it's possible.
He'll watch it tonight hopefully and let me know what he thinks, hopefully.
"Imagination was given to man to compensate him for what he is not, and a sense of humor was provided to console him for what he is."
-Oscar Wilde
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Finland Shadow Online
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#82

(07-10-2019, 06:37 PM)epaiva Wrote: It is a Jaguar for sure, not a big one it was a young Jaguar or a small female. Ocelots weight up to 16 kilograms it was not a Ocelot. It was filmed in the Amazon of Brazil where Jaguars don't grow much normally weighting under 60  kilograms. It was a big Black Caiman at least 4 meters long

Left hindleg seems to be in worse condition, that carcass overall. If that jaguar has been swimming when attacked, it would be quite logical place for croc to bite and start rolling. But there are possible bite marks here and there. That big croc might be able to roll/drown so small jaguar even if biting to body, which would be very difficult/almost impossible with big one, imo. Do you know any of those people, who uploaded this footage in the first place? It would be interesting to know more about this case if possible.
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Venezuela epaiva Offline
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#83
( This post was last modified: 07-11-2019, 02:31 PM by Shadow )

(07-11-2019, 03:57 AM)Shadow Wrote:
(07-10-2019, 06:37 PM)epaiva Wrote: It is a Jaguar for sure, not a big one it was a young Jaguar or a small female. Ocelots weight up to 16 kilograms it was not a Ocelot. It was filmed in the Amazon of Brazil where Jaguars don't grow much normally weighting under 60  kilograms. It was a big Black Caiman at least 4 meters long

Left hindleg of that carcass seems to be in worse condition. If that jaguar has been swimming when attacked, it would be quite logical place for croc to bite and start rolling. But there are possible bite marks here and there. That big croc might be able to roll/drown so small jaguar even if biting to body, which would be very difficult/almost impossible with big one, imo. Do you know any of those people, who uploaded this footage in the first place? It would be interesting to know more about this case if possible.

@Shadow
Sadly they don't have any data on measurements and weight of Black caiman and Jaguar and the person that posted video don't know the persons of the video
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Finland Shadow Online
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(07-11-2019, 03:18 AM)Pckts Wrote:
(07-10-2019, 11:24 PM)epaiva Wrote:
(07-10-2019, 10:33 PM)Pckts Wrote: @Sammyfrosh

If @epaiva says it's a jag then I'm sure it is, he's one of the most knowledgeable and experienced members we have here.

Black Caiman can grow huge, if Nile crocs can prey on Lions then without a doubt Black Caiman can prey on Jaguars. Even though Black Caiman are found in the Amazon I'd still wager on them being able to prey on Pantanal Jags as well, they can get that big and have a nasty reputation to back up the weapons.
@Pckts
Thanks a lot for your words my Friend, it would be very good if you can ask Paulo Barreiro if they have found skulls of Caiman jacare hunted by Jaguars so you can take good pictures of the marks left by the Jaguars on the Caiman's skulls. It would be great if you can take pictures and messurements of the largest skulls of big male Pantanal Jaguars they must have in their collection.

You got it, I'll ask at dinner.
In regards to the Jag/Black Caiman account

Paulo brought up some good points just because the Jag was fairly intact he said that there is no way to know how the Jag ended up in the Caimans belly which is true but he definitely thinks it's possible.
He'll watch it tonight hopefully and let me know what he thinks, hopefully.

Btw, did your guide, Paulo, say anything more what he thinks about this black caiman case?
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Finland Shadow Online
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#85
( This post was last modified: 07-11-2019, 07:15 PM by Shadow )

I transferred postings concerning jaguar subspecies/population sizes to size comparison thread, so that here can be focused to more relevant things concerning topic of this thread. Debate/discussion can continue, but what comes to sizes alone, not in this thread on that scale.
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United States Pckts Offline
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#86

(07-11-2019, 03:33 PM)Shadow Wrote:
(07-11-2019, 03:18 AM)Pckts Wrote:
(07-10-2019, 11:24 PM)epaiva Wrote:
(07-10-2019, 10:33 PM)Pckts Wrote: @Sammyfrosh

If @epaiva says it's a jag then I'm sure it is, he's one of the most knowledgeable and experienced members we have here.

Black Caiman can grow huge, if Nile crocs can prey on Lions then without a doubt Black Caiman can prey on Jaguars. Even though Black Caiman are found in the Amazon I'd still wager on them being able to prey on Pantanal Jags as well, they can get that big and have a nasty reputation to back up the weapons.
@Pckts
Thanks a lot for your words my Friend, it would be very good if you can ask Paulo Barreiro if they have found skulls of Caiman jacare hunted by Jaguars so you can take good pictures of the marks left by the Jaguars on the Caiman's skulls. It would be great if you can take pictures and messurements of the largest skulls of big male Pantanal Jaguars they must have in their collection.

You got it, I'll ask at dinner.
In regards to the Jag/Black Caiman account

Paulo brought up some good points just because the Jag was fairly intact he said that there is no way to know how the Jag ended up in the Caimans belly which is true but he definitely thinks it's possible.
He'll watch it tonight hopefully and let me know what he thinks, hopefully.

Btw, did your guide, Paulo, say anything more what he thinks about this black caiman case?
Not yet, he hasn't had time to watch it. He goes home tonight then heads to the amazon in a day so I'm not sure he'll get around to it, if he says anything I'll update here.
"Imagination was given to man to compensate him for what he is not, and a sense of humor was provided to console him for what he is."
-Oscar Wilde
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Switzerland Spalea Offline
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#87

Interaction between a male lion and a big croc around a zebra's corpse. Serengeti park in Tanzania. 
 
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Finland Shadow Online
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(08-03-2019, 02:11 AM)Spalea Wrote: Interaction between a male lion and a big croc around a zebra's corpse. Serengeti park in Tanzania. 
 

That was kind of funny :) When belly is so full, no-one wants to fight really. That might have been quite different situation if that crocodile would have been there some time earlier. I bet, that lion doesn´t care about bite forces, no matter what narrator thinks Wink
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United Arab Emirates BorneanTiger Offline
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( This post was last modified: 08-03-2019, 11:46 PM by BorneanTiger )

(08-03-2019, 02:29 AM)Shadow Wrote:
(08-03-2019, 02:11 AM)Spalea Wrote: Interaction between a male lion and a big croc around a zebra's corpse. Serengeti park in Tanzania. 
 

That was kind of funny :) When belly is so full, no-one wants to fight really. That might have been quite different situation if that crocodile would have been there some time earlier. I bet, that lion doesn´t care about bite forces, no matter what narrator thinks Wink

You're right to suspect that if the croc had been there earlier, when the lion's belly wasn't full, then it would have been a different situation, because in the Kenyan part of the Serengeti ecosystem, that is Masai Mara National Reserve, crocs learnt not to mess with a hungry male lion called 'Fang':



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