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Asiatic Lion - Data, Pictures & Videos
Asiatic Lion - Data, Pictures & Videos
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Asiatic Lion - Data, Pictures & Videos
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some impressive asiatic lions
 *This image is copyright of its original author  *This image is copyright of its original author  *This image is copyright of its original author
The size of the Asian lion - the ultimate data:
After several days of searching trough literature and the help of @peter and his scans, I finally was able to summarize all the reliable measurements and data about the size of the Indian (Asian) lion, in order to create one of my size tables. So, without more words, here is the result:  *This image is copyright of its original author Like all of you already know, only measurements between pegs were taken. In this order, I excluded the famous specimens from Fenton (1909):  *This image is copyright of its original author Why, if he seems so reliable? Well, the problem is that he measured his three lions over the curves, so I can't include them in the table, check this out:  *This image is copyright of its original author At the end, it seems confirmed the smaller size of this subspecies in comparison with other populations, but how close is to those of West Africa. For that same reason, I think that the Barbary lion, despite its large head, was no larger than other African lions and probably just slightly larger than its Indian brothers. Finally, here is a comparative image between the average sized Asian lion and an average sized Bengal tiger, including the set of measurements that are presented in my table:  *This image is copyright of its original author I still use the name "persica" because it is the popular way to know these lions, but I believe that the correct form should be "leo", as this population, together with those of the north and west of Africa, are practically the same population/subspecies. Let me know your comments and enjoy the data. [img]images/smilies/smile.gif[/img] 
Well done, Guate.
There is a bit more on length and weight. I will post it soon. Furthermore, I measured a number of skulls of captive Indian lions in European museums of natural history. One of these was donated by a well-known Dutch biologist who was stationed in Indonesia. There's no information on how he got the skull, but it definitely has the typical features I saw in the other skulls. I agree Fenton is a bit of an enigma regarding measurements. Like many others, he used to measure big cats 'over curves'. Later, after the debates on methods in many magazins, he measured them 'between pegs'. But not all. His measurements of other dimensions, however, are reliable. You could include the information on captive Indian lions in a new table. This in order to show the differences between wild and captive. Interesting for zoos involved in breeding them, I think.
Thanks peter, I am curious to see the data of captive lion skulls.
On the length issue, if there are more measurements "between pegs", it would be interesting to include them. On the weight issue, those ones in my table are the only one that I am aware, the lion of 306 kg quoted by Brakefield is a mistake as the real weight was of 255 kg. I know that we have those posted by "Spirit lion" some years ago, and seems reliable, but sadly, there is no way to quote them, as the source will be only the name of the avatar, and no other source. I have read the two documents of Fenton and the one of Harting (1896) quoting him from his post in "The Asian", and he only measured three males and two skulls. However I was not aware that those males were actually measured "over curves" until I saw the confirmation. However, something tell me before that the measurements were not in straight line, after all, how could be that a lion of 198 cm in head-body could have a skull of just 340 mm? At this moment, I don't have measurements of captive Indian lions, apart from the weights published by Sontakke et al. (2009). Let's see what more data can we gatter, but for the moment, this is the best I can do, with the data that I have. [img]images/smilies/smile.gif[/img]
By the way, here is a pictures of one of the male lions captured by Dr Ravi Chellam in Gir. I don't know which male it is, but certainly it is in the range of 160 - 190 kg, which are the weights published by him.
 *This image is copyright of its original author 
Its probably splitting hairs but Im curious why you use 260kg instead of the 272kg bottomed scaled #?
Amazing work BTW, it looks awesome.
Good question Pckts, and is fair to ask it.
I tried to show the weights "empty belly", so the weight of 259 kg from Hewett and the Sauraha male of 260 kg are the heaviest ones from first hand sources that not includes stomach content. I have been thinking in changing the record of 1870 - 1960 for the male of 267.6 (590 lb) tiger hunted by Colonel Kesri Singh, because this record is also from first hand and is not too away from the figures recorded by scientists (Singh, 1959). That tiger measured 349 cm "over curves", which is equivalent to c.324 - 329 cm "between pegs", however I will not include this figure, just the weight. I did not use the figure of 272 kg in order to avoid unnecessary criticism, just like I will not use the figure of 260 kg for the Etosha lion, instead I will put the figure of 240 kg, which is the empty one. By the way, and this is for all the posters too, do you think that I should made a comparative image of ALL the Southern African lion population, or just the specific populations: Ethosa, Namibia, Zimbabwe and South Africa??? I ask this because these are the areas where I have data, from the other ones, sadly, I don't have any measurements and just a few weights. Tell me what do you think, before to make my next image. [img]images/smilies/smile.gif[/img]
My personal opinion is that you should make individual comparisions of all areas to compare. [img]images/smilies/biggrin.gif[/img]
The more comparisions the better, but its obviously far more time consuming for you. I appreciate what ever you provide, either way. Regards 
I agree with pckts, But time and data availability should be main factor to decide
Thanks for your words Pckts.
Let's do something, for the moment I am going to make the "overall" sizes, like I have done with the Bengal tiger and the East African lion. When I finished the southern African lion, the west African lion, the Pantanal jaguar, Central America jaguar, the Indian leopard and the Persian leopard, I am going to begin with the comparison of intra-populations of India and latter the intra-populations of Africa. It will be like this: * Bengal tiger: 1. Central India 2. South west India. 3. North east India 4. The Sundarbans. 5. North west India (corrected to between pegs). * African lion: 1. Kenya. 2. Tanzania. 3. Congo. 4. South African. 5. Namibia. 6. Zimbabwe. I propose these images because they are the only ones that I have data. Latter, it will came the herbivores. [img]images/smilies/biggrin.gif[/img] (06-07-2015, 08:05 PM)'GuateGojira' Wrote: Good question Pckts, and is fair to ask it. what about the 250 kg lion from Timbawati?
That lion is from South Africa, the heaviest in Etosha is of 240 kg. However, in the overall comparison, the figure of 250 kg will be the largest one, for compilation issues. [img]images/smilies/smile.gif[/img]
Finally, here is a comparative image between the average sized Asian lion and an average sized Bengal tiger, including the set of measurements that are presented in my table:
*This image is copyright of its original author I still use the name "persica" because it is the popular way to know these lions, but I believe that the correct form should be "leo", as this population, together with those of the north and west of Africa, are practically the same population/subspecies. Let me know your comments and enjoy the data. [img]images/smilies/smile.gif[/img] [/quote] Guate I must say that this is so good! I truly believe this and your others needs to be published and used world wide. This sould be the templet taught throughout wild life biology classes, is there a way to get this peer reviewed and accepted?
Thank you very much for your words Pckts. [img]images/smilies/smile.gif[/img]
In fact, we don't need to be "per reviewed", as we can publish our data just like Mazák done in his own book "Der Tiger", or like Dr Karanth in his book "The Way of the Tiger" or Valmik Thapar with his several books, including the jewel "Tiger: the ultimate guide". Check that none of the books of Thapar has been per reviewed, but they are more authoritative than any other document and are more knew in the tiger world. The idea of peter is the solution, to publish our own documents here, in our forum for the people of the world, and including these images for comparison. |
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