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Roflcopters · 07-16-2014, 02:36 AM

(07-15-2014, 11:54 PM)'Pckts' Wrote: What is the size difference between Pattewala and Munna?
Who was the larger tiger, munna?

Pattewala was the heavier male by quiet a margin, Munna's size was never great but what he lacked in size, He made up for it with strength and dominance. Kariya Ghatti and Munna are probably two of the smallest males from Kanha.

Pckts · 07-16-2014, 02:52 AM

Very interesting, because munna is quoted by a few as being a very large tiger.

I wonder why?

"Munna - Large male from Kanha Tiger Reserve''
http://wildtigerwatch.blogspot.com/2011/...tures.html

"This is Munna from Kanha NP, he was considered to be the biggest tiger in the park "
From Prathap (he lives in India)

"There are big tigers and then there is Munna. A perspective here to see his sheer size. Notice the vehicles in the background are not more than 10 mtrs away. Look at his size as against the size of the gypsies behind."http://indianaturewatch.net/displayimage.php?id=451852

Very interesting that he is so highly regarded for his size, yet apparentely Pattewala and the Nakaa male are both significantly larger than him.
Must be some absolutely massive males around there.

Roflcopters · 07-16-2014, 03:36 AM

(07-16-2014, 02:52 AM)'Pckts' Wrote: Very interesting, because munna is quoted by a few as being a very large tiger.

I wonder why?

"Munna - Large male from Kanha Tiger Reserve''
http://wildtigerwatch.blogspot.com/2011/...tures.html

"This is Munna from Kanha NP, he was considered to be the biggest tiger in the park "
From Prathap (he lives in India)

"There are big tigers and then there is Munna. A perspective here to see his sheer size. Notice the vehicles in the background are not more than 10 mtrs away. Look at his size as against the size of the gypsies behind."http://indianaturewatch.net/displayimage.php?id=451852

Very interesting that he is so highly regarded for his size, yet apparentely Pattewala and the Nakaa male are both significantly larger than him.
Must be some absolutely massive males around there.

quiet a few males were bigger in comparison but Munna curb-stomped almost of all them and even till this very day, he occupies a very large territory.

Pckts · 07-16-2014, 09:33 PM

hahah "curb-stomped"

Do you have any accounts like the ones above in regards to their size compared to Munna?

You even said that Munna was larger than Pattewala male

"Munna is the biggest Kanha male i've seen in recent times though, followed by Pattewala male and Langda. It isn't Langda's size that makes him an emperor but his dominance and his unique writings on the forehead which clearly says "CAT". "
http://animalvsanimal.yuku.com/topic/500...8a5t7Eysyg

Munna killed Konda as well?
This is Konda, in Jan 2008, only days before he was killed in a fight. Murderer: Munna.
https://www.facebook.com/Kanha.tiger.ide...=3&theater

I just asked him about munnas size compared to his brother and the other male he fought.
Munna seems like one tough SOB, thats for sure.

Pckts · 07-16-2014, 11:10 PM

More info I can find on Munna

asianbuffalo 1 year ago in reply to Kshitij Degaonkar "I just checked the stripe, and he's def. Link 7 male Naak kata. The date of the vid is this year, so looks like Naak kata is alive. Anyway, this male is def. a very big male on a par with kzt023 of kaziranga, and only slightly smaller than wagdoh of tadoba. Also, Naak kata is notorious for being a short-tempered male and always picked fight with Munna, but got beaten up badly every time, resulting in his trademark scar nose. You say this male is bigger than Munna?A bit fatter, but not bigger IMO" asianbuffalo 1 year ago in reply to Kshitij Degaonkar "Naak kata is about 9 yo according to what I've been able to find. Munna is 7, turning 8 early next year. according to the photographer who fequents kanha and took pics of both,link 7 male Naak kata is a grumpy tiger who loves picking fight with the dominant male of kanha meadows Munna, but got the s*** beaten outta him EVERYTIME. I have 2 photos back in 09 of Naakata with a newly added injury to his nose after losing a fight with Munna. Munna is barely 4 then, Naak at least 6. So yeah, ...."

a guys responseKshitij Degaonkar 1 year ago in reply to asianbuffalo "Fatter for sure. I would say longer and taller too. And yes, he is short-tempered! Naak-kata is an old male who has been ruling Kanha even before Munna arrived on the scene as a dominant male. His prominent nose scar was there before Munna established himself as a dominant male so it must have been the result of a battle with some other tiger rather than Munna'. asianbuffalo 1 year ago in reply to Kshitij Degaonkar Naak is 2nd in line after the kanha ruler meadow Munna.One thing I'd like to note is a tiger's weight fluctuates tremendously(60-90kg or more) due to various reasons:stress, food etc.Munna looked really really pathetic in lots of photos due to these, and you might've happened to see him when he's like that, but when he's filled out,he's right there with Naak in size and always his boss in strength. I also replied to your comments on jagroar8309 vid last night, please check if you haven't. Thx!:)

*This image is copyright of its original author

prasadgodbole1 2 years ago Jab kaleja babbar sher ka ho to munna kobhi bahar niklna padta hain

*This image is copyright of its original author

asianbuffalo 1 year ago in reply to Kshitij Degaonkar ...Naak is no match for Munna. You can tell obviously by looking at head and paw size that Munna is boss of all Kanha tigers. And no, Munna simply can't rule the meadows with guts & valor alone, he has to back it up with serious power coming from sheer size, esp. againts feroiocus guys like Naak. Munna is not a single inch shorter in shoulder height and body length than Naak, a bit leaner but more solid, and overall more powerfully built than Naak. He's a ruler by both size and strength.

*This image is copyright of its original author

Kshitij Degaonkar 1 year ago Also, the thick flab of fat under his belly is very noticeable when he turns to go inside the bushes at the end of the video. By the way, seemed like you had been maintaining enough distance and silence at the start but at the end of the video, there was too much noise of the gypsy vehicle and you seemed to be getting nearer to the tiger. What exactly happened?

This is all I can search for now, need to get back to work. Let me know if you have anything else, he's quite the captivating tiger.

Here is the video they are referring to

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=toC-D7xCMYo

Apollo · 07-17-2014, 01:32 AM

(07-15-2014, 08:47 PM)'Roflcopters' Wrote:
(07-11-2014, 07:00 AM)'Apollo' Wrote:
(07-07-2014, 10:40 PM)'Roflcopters' Wrote: awesome work Apollo, did you veryify the information properly and any word on the Indi female cubs. I wonder if Munna is one of them, that would be interesting.. [img]images/smilies/biggrin.gif[/img]

Hi Rofl,

The information I provided is what I collected with several people.
Some had 10 -15 years of experience with Kanha directly.

Regarding Konda and Indri female, they had 2 litter
1) Jan 2003 --> 2 cubs (1 male and 1 female) --> I dont have any info on the male cub and the female cub is Indri female 2
2) Jan 2005 --> 4 cubs ( 3 males and 1 female) --> All 4 cubs were collared in March 2007. One male was moved to Pench, One male is challenging Munna, One male is seen in Kisli range and i dont have any info on the female cub.

As far as Indri tigress, she was moved to Pench in 2009.
Konda was also seen mating with Bandri Chapar female (SiddhiWali tigress), but currently I dont have any info on thsoe matings.

Regarding Munna, he was born to Minkur female and old Mukki male in 2003.
Munna and Pattewala are brothers from the same litter (Munna is most dominant in the litter).
Both the bros moved from Mukki and occupied Kisli and Kanha meadows.

Awesome findings, Apollo.

Pattewala's link to Munna is kind of shocking, considering the size between the two was great.. sort of like Mallu and Kallus from Bandhavgarh.

Initially it was a surprise for me too, because I thought Pattewala was slighlty younger than Munna.
But this information (Munna and Pattewala are brothers) was said to be from the head Mahout from Kanha, who keeps in track of these tigers.
So its reliable.

Apollo · 07-17-2014, 03:11 AM

Hi @Pckts
Nice info there.
TFS

I like to add some more points.

Regarding size, there is two ways of representing the size
1) A tiger being dimensionally bigger, which is being longer and taller.
2) A tiger being heavily built, being bulky with bigger chest girth.

Kanha tigers have always been a mystery.
Regarding Kanha tigers compared to Tadoba and Bandhavgarh

1) Kanha tigers have bigger heads than Tadoba and Bandhavgarh tigers.
2) Kanha tigers were also said to be bigger dimensionally being taller and longer than tigers from Tadoba and Bandhavgarh.
3) But it is said these Kanha tigers lack the overall bulkiness found in tigers from Tadoba and Bandhavgarh. The reason could be prey availability, season and higher degree of territorial battles. Tigers like Munna, Naak kata, Pattewala etc were seen half the time limping and injured from territorial battles. Kanha NP as higher numbers of males than females which causes males to fight more and trespassing others territory. There is a higher degree of body mass fluctuations in these Kanha tigers after territorial battles and in different seasons. When compared to Tadoba and Bandhavgarh where tigers tend to be quite similar (the difference is less when compared to Kanha) in body mass throughout the year (Waghdoh seems to be different in last couple of years).

This guy "Asianbuffalo" as a good knowledge on Kanha tigers. He does have alot of info and data on Kanha tigers.
This guy "AsianBuffalo" once spoke to a person named Ravi Naidu, an experienced field worker in Kanha and a wildlife photographer in Kanha, Tadoba and Bandhavgarh regarding the size of Munna and Pattewala compared to Waghdoh. He replied Munna and Pattewala are bigger than Waghdoh.
You can ask him if you want.

But Ive also heard some saying Munna is not a particularly large or bulky tiger and smaller than Waghdoh, Bamera etc
Like here http://www.indianaturewatch.net/displayi...?id=451852
@Roflcopters (a well informed poster) also said that Munna is not that BIG (I hope he can share more info on this, because it can shed more light on this issue)

So decide yourself.
Do some research and try to find the correct conclusion

IMO Munna is one of the greatest tiger Warriors (Munna got the name "Langda" which means the "limping one" because he was seen limping most of the time with injuries after territorial battles), he faced more battles and killed more tigers than Waghdohs and Bameras.

Regarding Naak kata, he is not the son of Link 7 female, that information given there is wrong.
Regarding Konda, he was not killed by Munna, that information is wrong too.

Hope it helps

Roflcopters · 07-17-2014, 05:16 AM

I don't find Asianbuffalo or Minh Ha reliable when it comes to judging tiger sizes because they tend to overexaggerate and blow things out of proportions. both are knowledgeable, but i think Minh Ha overrates the Kanha Tigers sizes a little too much and I am familiar with Kshitij, I knew him from the orkut days. he's a good lad with a good deal of knowledge.

back to the fighting prowess, Bamera probably fought about the same number of males that Munna fought and let's not forget that Bamera played a hand in both B2 and Bokha's death.

Bamera's career from the best of my knowledge (below)

B2 (old)
Bokha (out of prime, survived with one canine for a long time)
Rahasy (gave Bamera a hard time last year)
Jobhi (gave Bamera a very hard time, took his darling "Kankatti" and also took over large chunk of Bamera's territory - after monsoon, last year. He was rumored to be in the same area as Rahasy and after that, Rahasy was never seen again so Jobhi most likely whipped him too)
New Male of Tala (a short reign for this young fella - not sure what happened to him)
Pushpraj (Bamera's son)
Somanshu (Bamera's son)
Blue Eyes (Bamera fought him but Jobhi obliterated him)

on record, the only male males that i know of that never fought Bamera are Sahat, Panpatha and Mukunda male.

regarding sizes, all you need is a good eyesight to tell the obvious.. there's no way Munna and Pattewala would've ever compared to Wagdoh's size. there's no way in hell. Wagdoh is the biggest by far. [img]images/smilies/biggrin.gif[/img]

Apollo · 07-17-2014, 06:40 AM

Thanks alot @Roflcopters
The list on Bamera is very informative and useful

Yeah these guys have some bias towards Kanha tigers (when it comes to size) but they are knowledgeable.
The reply from Ravi Naidu to "AsianBuffalo" is something we need to look on for, because he is a very experienced and well informed person (especially on kanha, Tadoba and Bandhavgarh)
As I said there is two sides for this issue.

Personally based on pics and vids I too feel Waghdoh is bigger than Munna or Pattewala. But wanted to share the information presented in both sides.

Regarding Munna and Bamera.
A large part of Bamera's life went facing B2 and Bokha, unlike Munna who faced several males throughout his life.
Munna was responsible for more tiger deaths than Waghdoh or Bamera.
Some of the tigers I just remember at the moment are

1) Banda (old, had few fights with Munna. Went missing in 2009. Some say he was killed by Munna)
2) Arjuna ( young, had several fights with Munna. Killed by Munna)
3) Bhima (young, once fought with Munna)
4) Naak kata (prime adult, fought so many times with Munna)
5) Pattewala (prime adult, fought few times with Munna, last seen with injuries from a fight with Munna)
6) Chain male or Pattawala (both are brother in prime, one of them fought several times with Munna and was killed, I dont know which of these bros, I need to check)
7) Kankata (adult, fought with Munna and lost)
8) Red Eye (prime adult)
9) Sarhi male (prime adult)
10) new collared male (Adult)
11) Naak kata's son (young adult)

These are the ones I remember right now and it could be more.

tigerluver · 07-17-2014, 06:51 AM

(07-17-2014, 05:16 AM)Roflcopters Wrote: I don't find Asianbuffalo or Minh Ha reliable when it comes to judging tiger sizes because they tend to overexaggerate and blow things out of proportions. both are knowledgeable, but i think Minh Ha overrates the Kanha Tigers sizes a little too much and I am familiar with Kshitij, I knew him from the orkut days. he's a good lad with a good deal of knowledge.

back to the fighting prowess, Bamera probably fought about the same number of males that Munna fought and let's not forget that Bamera played a hand in both B2 and Bokha's death.

Bamera's career from the best of my knowledge (below)

B2 (old)
Bokha (out of prime, survived with one canine for a long time)
Rahasy (gave Bamera a hard time last year)
Jobhi (gave Bamera a very hard time, took his darling "Kankatti" and also took over large chunk of Bamera's territory - after monsoon, last year. He was rumored to be in the same area as Rahasy and after that, Rahasy was never seen again so Jobhi most likely whipped him too)
New Male of Tala (a short reign for this young fella - not sure what happened to him)
Pushpraj (Bamera's son)
Somanshu (Bamera's son)
Blue Eyes (Bamera fought him but Jobhi obliterated him)

on record, the only male males that i know of that never fought Bamera are Sahat, Panpatha and Mukunda male.

regarding sizes, all you need is a good eyesight to tell the obvious.. there's no way Munna and Pattewala would've ever compared to Wagdoh's size. there's no way in hell. Wagdoh is the biggest by far. [img]images/smilies/biggrin.gif[/img]

Is Jobhi Bokha's son? The two look similar, especially with how long they are. Is he larger than Bamera as well?

Roflcopters · 07-17-2014, 07:01 AM

(07-17-2014, 06:40 AM)'Apollo' Wrote: Yeah these guys have some bias towards Kanha tigers (when it comes to size) but they are knowledgeable.
The reply from Ravi Naidu to "AsianBuffalo" is something we need to look on for, because he is a very experienced and well informed person (especially on kanha, Tadoba and Bandhavgarh)
As I said there is two sides for this issue.

Regarding Munna and Bamera.
A large part of Bamera's life went facing B2 and Bokha, unlike Munna who faced several males throughout his life.
Munna was responsible for more tiger deaths than Waghdoh or Bamera.
Some of the tigers I just remember at the moment are

1) Banda (old, had few fights with Munna. Went missing in 2009. Some say he was killed by Munna)
2) Arjuna ( young, had several fights with Munna. Killed by Munna)
3) Bhima (young, once fought with Munna)
4) Naak kata (prime adult, fought so many times with Munna)
5) Pattewala (prime adult, fought few times with Munna, last seen with injuries from a fight with Munna)
6) Chain male or Pattawala (both are brother in prime, one of them fought several times with Munna and was killed, I dont know which of these bros, I need to check)
7) Kankata (adult, fought with Munna and lost)
8) Red Eye (prime adult)
9) Sarhi male (prime adult)
10) new collared male (Adult)
11) Naak kata's son (young adult)

These are the ones I remember right now and it could be more.

seems about right, Munna has far too many victories linked to his name. He's the finest specimen from Kanha, nobody can deny that. [img]images/smilies/biggrin.gif[/img]

Quote:Is Jobhi Bokha's son? The two look similar, especially with how long they are. Is he larger than Bamera as well?

He is indeed and I am not sure how he would've compared to the Prime Bamera but he's pretty heavy himself and the most dominant male of Bandhavgarh at the moment.

Pckts · 07-17-2014, 08:21 AM

Check it out, looks like Munna is the King in fighting and size....

[list=none]
[*]Is munna larger than his brother, Pattewala and the other male that he injured? Nakaa male (sp) I believe.Like · Reply · 9 hrs
[list=none]
[*]

*This image is copyright of its original author

Tigers of Kanha At similar shoulder heights, Munna is more heavily built and longer in body length, and therefore quite a bit larger than Pattewala. Naak Kata is similar to Pattewala in height and length, but has a smaller head and not as heavily built as Pattewala, so he's nowhere near Munna's level. Check out these photo of Munna, where you can see his size in contrast to the jeep and the tigress:
[/list]
[/list]

Apollo · 07-17-2014, 03:52 PM

Name : Pattewala male = Kisli male
Location : Kanha National Park
Year of Birth : 2003
Ancestry : Son of Old Mukki male and Minkur female, Brother of Munna male
Status : Unknown could be dead
Sex : Male
Species : panthera tigris tigris

Born to Old Mukki male and Minkur female, the cubs were raised in the Mukki range. Among the cubs Munna was the most dominant. Pattewala is more of a laid back type. After the death of there father in 2004, the Mukki range was taken over by the "Limping male", so the Minkur female moved the cubs to the Southern part of the Mukki.

The name Pattewala means the "collared one", because this male was radio collared.
On reaching adulthood, Pattewala moved out of Mukki and settled in Kisli.
During his prime Pattewala had several battles with Konda, Bhima and Munna.
As such a large tiger, his confident personality, around both visiters and other tigers, was unsurprising. This confidence, paired with his large physique, is his main points of identification as his coat is particularly non-descript. He was not afraid to leave his territory and roamed widely.

In December 2009 Pattewala had a territorial battle with Munna and was seen limping with several wounds.
Here are some pics of the injured Pattewala.

*This image is copyright of its original author

Again at the end of the January 2010 Pattewala and Munna got into a serious fight, where Pattewala had a puncture wound in the head.
Here are pics of the injured Pattewala.

*This image is copyright of its original author

Pattewala was not seen after the monsoon of 2010. Some say he died and others say that he moved to Dhanwar village area in the Buffer zone.

*This image is copyright of its original author

Roflcopters · 07-17-2014, 06:35 PM

(07-17-2014, 08:21 AM)'Pckts' Wrote: Check it out, looks like Munna is the King in fighting and size....

Is munna larger than his brother, Pattewala and the other male that he injured? Nakaa male (sp) I believe.Like · Reply · 9 hrs

*This image is copyright of its original author
Tigers of Kanha At similar shoulder heights, Munna is more heavily built and longer in body length, and therefore quite a bit larger than Pattewala. Naak Kata is similar to Pattewala in height and length, but has a smaller head and not as heavily built as Pattewala, so he's nowhere near Munna's level. Check out these photo of Munna, where you can see his size in contrast to the jeep and the tigress:

this discussion that you copy pasted seems heavily biased and ubberly retarded at the same time, these guys are overrating Munna a lot. let's continue this topic on the picture thread.

P.S feel free to delete the irrelevant discussions, Apollo. [img]images/smilies/tongue.gif[/img]

Pckts · 07-17-2014, 10:15 PM

(07-17-2014, 06:35 PM)'Roflcopters' Wrote:
(07-17-2014, 08:21 AM)'Pckts' Wrote: Check it out, looks like Munna is the King in fighting and size....

Is munna larger than his brother, Pattewala and the other male that he injured? Nakaa male (sp) I believe.Like · Reply · 9 hrs

*This image is copyright of its original author
Tigers of Kanha At similar shoulder heights, Munna is more heavily built and longer in body length, and therefore quite a bit larger than Pattewala. Naak Kata is similar to Pattewala in height and length, but has a smaller head and not as heavily built as Pattewala, so he's nowhere near Munna's level. Check out these photo of Munna, where you can see his size in contrast to the jeep and the tigress:

this discussion that you copy pasted seems heavily biased and ubberly retarded at the same time, these guys are overrating Munna a lot. let's continue this topic on the picture thread.

P.S feel free to delete the irrelevant discussions, Apollo.
I was the one who asked the question, and its not biased at all. Its from the FB page of Tigers of Kanha and they are the ones who see these tigers daily.
Sorry you don't agree with most others eye witness accounts, but I have far more backing munna's size.

Just out of curiousity, why do you still deny this fact after so many have now backed it?
Or are you just upset because you where intially wrong in your opinion of munnas size?

Here are the pictures he posted of Munna
[img]https://fbcdn-sphotos-b-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-frc3/v/t1.0-9/s720x720/601967_532333380144179_1601934142_n.jpg?oh=012faeb611109f994d8af626233accdc&oe=544CB836&__gda__=1413382493_f587a555af39a056430c53c96b8aa6cb" class="lozad max-img-size" alt="" title="">

*This image is copyright of its original author

*This image is copyright of its original author

I didn't know that male was munna, everybody says the female is a massive female, I posted a few pics of her and her huge frame and she looks tiny compared him.

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