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The Birmingham Males
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 (01-04-2023, 05:57 PM)Horizon Wrote: Nhenha’s running for a while and there are a lot of excuses offered for that here. Sometimes, there is even a talk of a complex strategy behind this retreat(running). Come on, guys… There are times when you inspire with your wisdom and then this. If you dont like Nhenha just say it. "Nhenha's running for a while" lmao. Pls explain this, this narrative of Nhenha running is getting out of hand. He is not a superman to beat 2-4 males by himself you know. He didn’t run now, and he is dead, i hope you are happy now. 
@Tr1x24 You're reaching huge conclusions on your own, did I say their behavior was wrong or unusual? My perspective is based on the growth of the lion population that some 15 years ago had almost 60 lions living in the Western Sector.
Did I say this isn't how lion society works? No, in fact I said the opposite "it is what it is". Huh? Did I asked "why Nhenha killed the females?", I said "unfortunately he killed them for nothing", which objectively is true as he couldn't hold his territory and help grow the lion population. I didn't say what he did was wrong for him, unusual or unnatural, I said it didn't accomplish anything which is the plain truth. If 6 males arrived would I have asked "why did he killed them?" no, I never asked that to begin with, I'd say the same "unfortunately he killed them for nothing". Even just a few more months with the females alive could have proved decisive in the chance of the new generation to survive as 2yo subadults might as well become independent and survive as nomads, especially females. And you know very well Ximhungwe and Gingerella had no cubs, being the reason they easily accepted new males, Othawas were 15yo without chances of raising a new litter, completely different scenario. Anyway to make it clear if it isn't already I never asked why Birminghams killed them, never said they doing it was unnatural, what I did was claim it was unfortunate especially since it didn't accomplish anything, but recognizing that it was the natural order of things. I wanted the Othawas alive, just like you declared you want Nhenha alive despite being natural that the PCM kill him. We all hope the ones we like live, isn't that it? It doesn't mean nature will always grant us our wishes.
As for Nhenha staying and fighting, I seriously doubt that, he is a cautious male, 3 Birminghams ran from 2 old Majingilanes in their own territory back in 2017 and in 2015 all 5 ran from 3 Majingis. Nhenha also ran from Mohawk and as Tr1x24 said once, rangers claimed there were tracks of Skorro Jr chasing both Birminghams back when he was still confident. So there's no reason to assume Nhenha would now, in his old age, after running from PCM countless time for almost a year, suddenly try and face 2 males.
It's much more likely he tried to run but wasn't fast enough, just one or two days earlier he started moving out after hearing PCM roaring. His fight with Skorro Jr was llikely the same thing. Though there's no way to know for sure. (01-04-2023, 08:49 PM)Mapokser Wrote: I wanted the Othawas alive, just like you declared you want Nhenha alive despite being natural that the PCM kill him. We all hope the ones we like live, isn't that it? It doesn't mean nature will always grant us our wishes. Where did i stated that i favor Nhenha over PCM's or NK or Othawas or any other lion alive? Or that i blame PCM's for killing him or anything? Well i dont, to me all lions are the same, but not for all here, as majority of comments here are against Nhenha/NK coalition, like its something wrong what they did in western sector, that their coalition was "mistake", or this narrative that Nhenha is "coward" or "runner" lmao. (01-04-2023, 08:57 PM)Mapokser Wrote: As for Nhenha staying and fighting, I seriously doubt that, he is a cautious male, 3 Birminghams ran from 2 old Majingilanes in their own territory back in 2017 and in 2015 all 5 ran from 3 Majingis. Nhenha also ran from Mohawk and as Tr1x24 said once, rangers claimed there were tracks of Skorro Jr chasing both Birminghams back when he was still confident. So there's no reason to assume Nhenha would now, in his old age, after running from PCM countless time for almost a year, suddenly try and face 2 males. Check post #2970 on this thread (previous page), where i answer this.  (01-04-2023, 09:43 PM)afortich Wrote: Was Nhenha found dead?? No. All we know is what Stu said about likely hood of a fight with some signs of blood. This is all peculiar. He says all of this but none of the footage he shares corroborates/supports his statements. He speaks of the condition of PCMs but doesn’t show footage…..uses old footage. Today he says Skorro and nkuhuma were together, yet uses old footage of both separately. This is baffling. If they wanted drama, they have it. Lol  (01-04-2023, 09:49 PM)Tr1x24 Wrote:(01-04-2023, 09:43 PM)afortich Wrote: Was Nhenha found dead?? Have there been actual guide reports that he was seen with Skorro Jr? If this is based on the video that was shared, clearly it appears that video was edited together from different footage. (01-04-2023, 09:58 PM)Tr1x24 Wrote:(01-04-2023, 09:53 PM)BA0701 Wrote: Have there been actual guide reports that he was seen with Skorro Jr? If this is based on the video that was shared, clearly it appears that video was edited together from different footage. Yes, Ranger Stu works as guide for Leopard Hills. In Private message inquiries he admits the videos are not new. But he affirms the updates are current.
@Tr1x24 the way you replied to me seemed like you were favoring them because you "accused" me of multiple things I didn't say about the Birminghams.
If you truly don't favor anyone why have you said you hope Nhenha is fine? One could assume that based on your neutrality you'd like to see PCM finishing Nhenha off so the vast majority of the lions there may benefit, and it's normal that PCM kills him. As for the rest, I can only speak for myself, I never called Nhenha a coward, nor do I think any lion is one, their lives are incredibly harsh. You mentioned him chasing some lions, but how many were dominant and in equal numbers? OM for example was only one and what I heard was that Avocas were dominating them. Regardless Birminghams are probably below average in terms of their ability to clash with other lions if we were to look at all of their clashes since they were seen running from old males while outnumbering them and even ran from only 3 males while being 5. And that was against Majingilanes, a coalition people claim was also cautious. And keep in mind, these clashes from the past were when Nhenha was younger, at his age, even 1 year younger makes a big difference, it doesn't make sense for him to face 2 PCM alone.
As for the guide's claims, I'd be surprised if he is telling blatant lies but it does seem odd, that's for sure. PCM aren't injured, nor is NK, how did they beat Nhenha so badly to leave "a lot of blood" without getting a single scratch?
And even if Nhenha was dead and NK knows it somehow, it seems very weird Skorro and him would hang out together, NK attacked him last month after all. 
Playing favourites aside. One only has to look at the numbers to see that their arrival has been a disaster to the lion population in western sector. One pride is nearly completely decimated and the other stuck in limbo unable to raise cubs. Considering this can still go on for years if one coalition does not remove the other, we are looking at the potential end of every pride in western sector. Which would be a great loss to the genetic diversity in the region.
Bad or wrong is a very good description of the current situation. We know its nature and the Birminghams are just doing what they do. But its just not a good spot for the reserve to be in right now. As for the whole coward thing. Its just another slur for being to careful. . In this case being carefull clearly is not working out for them. The Birminghams are on paper not a weak coalition, but ultimately they are the ones that end up leaving for long periods of time. And that does not exactly instill fear to the PCmales. I am not saying they should have rushed into battle. But returning immediately would in itself also be a strong message. And make it not the PCmales worth their time to visit. We don't know what happens when they leave. No footage exists of them making the decision or being forced to flee. They just are one day in western sector and the other day across the reserve. Its easy to speculate what motivates them. We all have our pet theories. But ultimately we don't know. So we cant really blame one lion over the other over it. Besides, if Nhena was ultimately killed. It cannot be said their cowardice was unfounded. Also.Its only been just a few days since this all started. Anything is still possible or could have happened. Time will tell. No need for weird speculations. (01-04-2023, 10:20 PM)Mapokser Wrote: @Tr1x24 the way you replied to me seemed like you were favoring them because you "accused" me of multiple things I didn't say about the Birminghams. I didn't accuse you for anything, i just replied to your comment that Nhenha killed 2 females for nothing, he just did what lions do in that situation, its not his fault. (01-04-2023, 10:20 PM)Mapokser Wrote: If you truly don't favor anyone why have you said you hope Nhenha is fine? One could assume that based on your neutrality you'd like to see PCM finishing Nhenha off so the vast majority of the lions there may benefit, and it's normal that PCM kills him. Ofc i said i hope he is alright, as i would say for any lion, as i said for Othawas aswell when Nhenha harm them. I love animals, i dont want any to get killed, but thats normal in their society and unavoidable. Should i want PCMs to kill them because that would bring stability to the area? No, as that is searching for "utopia", future which we cant know, just tomorrow could new, stronger coalition invade PCM's, and then what? You cant predict stability in lions world. Deaths from male lions will come, regardless if its Nhenha or PCMs, didn't PCM's also killed few females already? They didn't bring stability to Tsalala pride, did they? Its the same, to some stability, to other death. (01-04-2023, 10:20 PM)Mapokser Wrote: You mentioned him chasing some lions, but how many were dominant and in equal numbers? OM for example was only one and what I heard was that Avocas were dominating them. Regardless Birminghams are probably below average in terms of their ability to clash with other lions if we were to look at all of their clashes since they were seen running from old males while outnumbering them and even ran from only 3 males while being 5. And that was against Majingilanes, a coalition people claim was also cautious. I wont go again into that, if you want, you can go and research how many reports was of Nhenha and/or Tinyo chasing other males, and then how many of other males chasing them, also take in mind that Tinyo's condition in 2021 was quite bad, which was the main reason they started losing ground to N. Avocas, especially after mid 2021. Bboys below average when it comes to clash with other lions? Disagree, in their nomadic phase these guys where known for their aggression and striked fear thru Manyeleti and Northern Sabi Sands. In their prime years they didnt exactly fight anyone, as nobody was that stupid to attack 4 prime males, not their fault either. In fact, they where prob more experienced in fighting then other males in smaller coalitions with less females to mate with, as competition and fight for mating rights was fierce in bigger coalitions, and Bboys where quite agressive towards each others, luckly we could follow all of it on WE. Not sure for which chase vs Majingilanes you are saying? As far as i remember, they encounter Majingilanes earlier when they where nomads and young. When they become territorial, i only know about 1 incident, in early 2017 when 3 Bboys got chased from buffalo kill by Majingilanes, not sure how many, and apparently that happened in Majingilanes territory/border. I didn't said that Nhenha is willing to face 2 males alone, ofc not, that is suicide. Im saying that he shows more confidence and willing to fight then NK. |
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