Freak Specimens

[Pckts]

(06-07-2014, 09:10 PM)'TheLioness' Wrote: Maneless males do resemble the prehistoric big cat cave lion. They look their best when they don't have the belly fold.

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Big heads and neck

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Certain ligers and tigons remind me of some of prehistoric cats, smilodon, cave lion, ect. with their little manes.

 

They are nuetered obese lions, just like leo at Noah's ark or any other "maneless" lion. They have "belly folds" because they are fat and it's extra skin. Same as tigers or any other obese or dense cat. All nuetered lions are going to be obese.

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[TheLioness]

(06-07-2014, 11:04 PM)'Pckts' Wrote:

(06-07-2014, 06:53 PM)'TheLioness' Wrote: Thats your opinion, your intitled to it [img]http://afox11.dyndns-pics.com/Helen/g/hag1175.jpg" class="lozad max-img-size" alt="" title="">

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I'm trying to figure out if this is accidental information on here, because if it is not, holy cow. (estimated though) she does not look this big, wonder who estimated her? I have emailed them to see if they actually got a weight on her.
http://tbasine.wordpress.com/2013/06/04/...nd-verity/

"She was quite a large cat and in great body condition (on the scale here from 1-5, she was determined to be a 5).  She was estimated to weight around 280 kg, which is around 616 lbs!"

I highly doubt this to be accurate at all, her weight could be anywhere from 95kg-180kg. But to think it was true, my goodness what a lioness. [img]images/smilies/wink.gif[/img]


P.S. your kinda doing what I'm doing, I posted the lioness was said to be around 500 pounds then you reply with two tigresses with no proof other than an email that said "female Siberian tigers weight is around 500 pounds" it sounds like it wasn't even talking about that certain tigress. You posted that estimate then say we don't accept them, however you posted yours and I assume you believe it? Why is my estimates less believable than yours?

Of course im asking in a polite manner, not trying to be mean or anything, just stating what I'm feeling.
 

 

 


 

You do yourself a more harm than good when quoting these "guesses".
If we still went off "estimates" than Siberian Tigers would average 300kg and 400kg tigers would not be unheard of. But of course, we know better now, because we use actual fact, weights, measurements and data. So while you can use all the estimated weights you would like, none of them will be used in actual scientific records when, let's say: finding the largest captive lioness or average captive weight, etc...
People make absurd estimates all the time, especially in the older days.
 

 

That is not my intention. I do not accept them as scientific records until verified. I do not show this in my posts I hope. I've done my best to do what Guate does.

Do you accept the email that stated that female siberian tigers weight is around 500 pounds as actual scientific record? Because how you posted it, you said they are verified, however just as verified as the 4 lionesses said to be 500lbs or more.

The neutered lions not always are obese, me and grizzly agree on some are very thick and not obese. [img]images/smilies/smile.gif[/img]

As well as I've seen tigers in great health with belly fold, them muscular and fit.


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[Pckts]

I accept it, because it says it wasys "about 500lbs" speaks of the studbooks of which the female is from and the female was used to mate with Baikal. So you know they weigh there cats

The one you grizzly think is ''fit" looks to have quite a bit of excess skin from being obese and no real muscle definition that I can see. He does look thick but also obese to me at least.

I have said many times, that Tigers who are dense will also get "belly folds"
Waghdoh gets a belly fold when he hasn't feed in some time, but for a captive cat, a belly fold is due to extra skin from being fat. A tell tell sign, look at all the extra skin in their neck, chest region, you will never see waghdoh with loose skin in his neck. Reply

[GrizzlyClaws]

These neutered lions don't have the athletic body type of Baikal and the Cave lion, but the word obesity might be a bit too much to describe them.

They look well fed, slightly overweighed and chubby, and doesn't have the athletic body type that's for sure.

Just like some random 6'4" and 280 pounds dude with a layer of fat mixed with big frame, unlike the athletic bodybuilders. Reply

[TheLioness]

Thats your opinion pckts, I think otherwise but we will never agree. Moving on!

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~~Rocky the liger was biggest with 1200 Pounds. But some sources say that Rocky the liger was only famous for its aggressiveness and its weight was speculated by the individuals. Normally Rocky the Liger weighed around 800 to 1000 Pounds.

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I do not know how reliable the weights are on this page, but these cats are beautiful. Are ligers as bad as breeding white lions and tigers? http://www.ligerworld.com/biggest-liger-...orded.html

Ligers can also be fertile. I always assumed most to be infertile.
[img]http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2013/06/19/article-2344461-1A6553D7000005DC-12_634x448.jpg" class="lozad max-img-size" alt="" title="">

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Beautiful cub, big mom!

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This is a very large looking lion, I do not know his weight, however he seems pretty solid to me. Anyone read this? I think its Russian.
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[Apollo]

(06-07-2014, 08:25 PM)'TheLioness' Wrote: Yeah, wonder which would be able to compare like your Amur, not exactly in size im sure but fitness despite huge weight. Lions seem to have the belly fold a lot and sometimes makes them look obese.

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Eventhough neutered, that lion looks huge and muscular.

I do have a question and I hope someone can help me out with this.
Everyone say that neutered cats will get heavier and obese.
Some of these neutered lions not only look heavier but they also look BIG. I mean bigger frame (height and length).
Do neutering will make these cats grow bigger in dimensions (make them grow taller and longer) ?
Do neutering causes both muscle and skeletal growth ?
Any scientific explanation for this ?

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[Apollo]

(06-08-2014, 03:19 AM)'TheLioness' Wrote:

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This is a very large looking lion, I do not know his weight, however he seems pretty solid to me. Anyone read this? I think its Russian.
 

 

His name is Khalif, here is another pic of him.
He is a beautiful lion and one of my favourite.

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[GrizzlyClaws]

(06-08-2014, 03:19 AM)'TheLioness' Wrote: Thats your opinion pckts, I think otherwise but we will never agree. Moving on!

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~~Rocky the liger was biggest with 1200 Pounds. But some sources say that Rocky the liger was only famous for its aggressiveness and its weight was speculated by the individuals. Normally Rocky the Liger weighed around 800 to 1000 Pounds.

*This image is copyright of its original author

I do not know how reliable the weights are on this page, but these cats are beautiful. Are ligers as bad as breeding white lions and tigers? http://www.ligerworld.com/biggest-liger-...orded.html

Ligers can also be fertile. I always assumed most to be infertile.
[img]http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2013/06/19/article-2344461-1A6553D7000005DC-12_634x448.jpg" class="lozad max-img-size" alt="" title="">

*This image is copyright of its original author

Beautiful cub, big mom!

*This image is copyright of its original author

This is a very large looking lion, I do not know his weight, however he seems pretty solid to me. Anyone read this? I think its Russian.
 

 

It is written in German. Reply

[GuateGojira]

(06-08-2014, 03:19 AM)'TheLioness' Wrote: Thats your opinion pckts, I think otherwise but we will never agree. Moving on!

*This image is copyright of its original author

~~Rocky the liger was biggest with 1200 Pounds. But some sources say that Rocky the liger was only famous for its aggressiveness and its weight was speculated by the individuals. Normally Rocky the Liger weighed around 800 to 1000 Pounds.

*This image is copyright of its original author

I do not know how reliable the weights are on this page, but these cats are beautiful. Are ligers as bad as breeding white lions and tigers? http://www.ligerworld.com/biggest-liger-...orded.html

Ligers can also be fertile. I always assumed most to be infertile.
[img]http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2013/06/19/article-2344461-1A6553D7000005DC-12_634x448.jpg" class="lozad max-img-size" alt="" title="">

*This image is copyright of its original author

Beautiful cub, big mom!
 

 

About those weights, just one word: Unreliable!

None of those weights are reliable, not even real. The page Ligerworld.com is the only page that actively seek to show that ligers are good, that they have conservationist purposes and that they "normally" weight over 400 kg. All these allegations are garbage.

Check this topic from me: http://wildfact.com/forum/topic-the-heav...nness-2014

Heaviest liver EVER, actually weighed, is of 418.2 kg. There are other records there that can be posted here as freak specimens, after all, any liger is in fact, a freak. By the way, don't support the breed of ligers, these animals have no normal lives, despite the claims of Ligerworld.com.
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[TheLioness]

Thanks for the info guate, I don't know a whole lot about ligers. They are not suppose to be bred, they are not in the wild and therefore shouldn't be in zoos either, or nature would have made it so.

Just another human trial, like mules horse/donkey. Reply

[GuateGojira]

Exactly, liger are man-made creations with no purposes, except that of the show and the money-making business.

On the reproduction, only female ligers are able to breed, no idea why males don't.

The interesting point is that lions and tigers are the most different of the great cats, in therms of evolution, as tigers evolved from the original Panthera steam about 2,000,000 years ago, while lions evolved just about 600,000 years ago. However, they can breed very well and they share many characteristics that other great cats don't. Is this possibly an example of convergent evolution? I have never thought this before. [img]images/smilies/huh.gif[/img]
  Reply

[Pckts]

(06-08-2014, 03:19 AM)'TheLioness' Wrote: Thats your opinion pckts, I think otherwise but we will never agree. Moving on!

*This image is copyright of its original author

~~Rocky the liger was biggest with 1200 Pounds. But some sources say that Rocky the liger was only famous for its aggressiveness and its weight was speculated by the individuals. Normally Rocky the Liger weighed around 800 to 1000 Pounds.

*This image is copyright of its original author

I do not know how reliable the weights are on this page, but these cats are beautiful. Are ligers as bad as breeding white lions and tigers? http://www.ligerworld.com/biggest-liger-...orded.html

Ligers can also be fertile. I always assumed most to be infertile.
[img]http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2013/06/19/article-2344461-1A6553D7000005DC-12_634x448.jpg" class="lozad max-img-size" alt="" title="">

*This image is copyright of its original author

Beautiful cub, big mom!

*This image is copyright of its original author

This is a very large looking lion, I do not know his weight, however he seems pretty solid to me. Anyone read this? I think its Russian.
 

 

Old Russian and European Circus cats always look healthy and large. They have some big lions and tigers. I think too many genes got mixed by the time they became a permanent mainstay to the states. Reply

[GrizzlyClaws]

(06-08-2014, 07:08 PM)'GuateGojira' Wrote: Exactly, liger are man-made creations with no purposes, except that of the show and the money-making business.

On the reproduction, only female ligers are able to breed, no idea why males don't.

The interesting point is that lions and tigers are the most different of the great cats, in therms of evolution, as tigers evolved from the original Panthera steam about 2,000,000 years ago, while lions evolved just about 600,000 years ago. However, they can breed very well and they share many characteristics that other great cats don't. Is this possibly an example of convergent evolution? I have never thought this before. [img]images/smilies/huh.gif[/img]
 

 

Which aspects that lion and tiger are more in common?

Apart from its size, i simply failed to see anything in common between these two panthera species. Reply

[Siegfried]

GrizzlyClaws said,
"Apart from its size, i simply failed to see anything in common between these two panthera species."


From what I've seen on other sites, this could start a war... Reply

[Apollo]

(06-09-2014, 02:22 AM)'Siegfried' Wrote: GrizzlyClaws said,
"Apart from its size, i simply failed to see anything in common between these two panthera species."


From what I've seen on other sites, this could start a war...

 

Dont worry Siegfried,
Both Guate and Grizzlyclaws are very matured posters.
So I can assure you that nothing like that will happen.
  Reply