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Freak Specimens

United States GrizzlyClaws Offline
Canine Expert
*****
Moderators
#16

The pic doesn't work.

According to peter, a 90mm canine in the straight line from the gumline might be too much for a big cat.
Reply

Sri Lanka Apollo Away
Bigcat Enthusiast
*****
#17

(06-01-2014, 09:56 AM)'GrizzlyClaws' Wrote:
(06-01-2014, 09:49 AM)'Apollo' Wrote:
(06-01-2014, 09:21 AM)'GrizzlyClaws' Wrote:
(06-01-2014, 08:59 AM)'Apollo' Wrote:
(06-01-2014, 04:52 AM)'GrizzlyClaws' Wrote: This guy was stated to have 90mm upper canine from the gumline, but the only thing needs to be clarified is the straight line or front curve.
 





 



90mm upto gumline is freakishly large.
Is it the longest measurement for any tiger till gumline ?
Do you have the total length of that canine (tip to root) ?
 




 


Yeah, it is perhaps the longest known record for Panthera.

According to peter, the straight line is probably unlikely, maybe in front curve. If so, that would make the canine about 80mm in the straight line from the gumline, or 90mm in the straight line from the skull.

From the tip to root, maybe up to 168mm.



 



Do we have any other measurements from this tiger like Headbody length, shoulder height, chest girth etc ?
What is the general method of measuring canines of live sedated panthera (not from the dead panthera skulls), is it straight line or is it front curve ?
 


 

The head+body length is 220cm and the shoulder height is 110cm, while the chest girth is unknown, but he looked quite bulky for his size.

About in the straight line or front curve, both methods are applicable.

 



Thanks for the measurements Grizzly claws.
Based on these measurements I think Duisburg Zoo tiger is still smaller than Baikal.
The canine measurement in Madla (80mm upto gumline) is it straight line or curved ?
 
Reply

United States GrizzlyClaws Offline
Canine Expert
*****
Moderators
#18
( This post was last modified: 06-01-2014, 10:23 AM by GrizzlyClaws )

(06-01-2014, 10:17 AM)'Apollo' Wrote:
(06-01-2014, 09:56 AM)'GrizzlyClaws' Wrote:
(06-01-2014, 09:49 AM)'Apollo' Wrote:
(06-01-2014, 09:21 AM)'GrizzlyClaws' Wrote:
(06-01-2014, 08:59 AM)'Apollo' Wrote:
(06-01-2014, 04:52 AM)'GrizzlyClaws' Wrote: This guy was stated to have 90mm upper canine from the gumline, but the only thing needs to be clarified is the straight line or front curve.
 






 



90mm upto gumline is freakishly large.
Is it the longest measurement for any tiger till gumline ?
Do you have the total length of that canine (tip to root) ?
 





 


Yeah, it is perhaps the longest known record for Panthera.

According to peter, the straight line is probably unlikely, maybe in front curve. If so, that would make the canine about 80mm in the straight line from the gumline, or 90mm in the straight line from the skull.

From the tip to root, maybe up to 168mm.




 



Do we have any other measurements from this tiger like Headbody length, shoulder height, chest girth etc ?
What is the general method of measuring canines of live sedated panthera (not from the dead panthera skulls), is it straight line or is it front curve ?
 



 

The head+body length is 220cm and the shoulder height is 110cm, while the chest girth is unknown, but he looked quite bulky for his size.

About in the straight line or front curve, both methods are applicable.


 



Thanks for the measurements Grizzly claws.
Based on these measurements I think Duisburg Zoo tiger is still smaller than Baikal.
The canine measurement in Madla (80mm upto gumline) is it straight line or curved ?
 

 


Madla's canine is 75mm from the gumline in the straight line, so it is slightly smaller than "Amur".

Basically this tiger and Madla have the similar skull/canine proportion despite this one is a captive Amur and another one is a wild Bengal. Since the tiger species is very symmetric in term of the body proportion.

Madla has 40cm skull with 75mm canine, and this guy has 43cm skull with 80mm canine.
Reply

Guatemala GuateGojira Offline
Expert & Researcher
*****
#19

(06-01-2014, 10:15 AM)'GrizzlyClaws' Wrote: The pic doesn't work.

According to peter, a 90mm canine in the straight line from the gumline might be too much for a big cat.

 
How doesn't work? If you can't see it, I can upload it in other type.

As for the 90 mm canine, maybe the right figure will be lower if taken in straight line. For the moment, based in the picture that I post, I think that the canines of the wild tigers are measured in straight line. In that case, the record canines of 75 mm from Madla are about the maximum in the wild, and the canines of the captive Amur will be about 80 mm, if taken in the same way.
 
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United States GrizzlyClaws Offline
Canine Expert
*****
Moderators
#20

Yeah, "Amur" from the Duisburg Zoo is smaller than Baikal despite he has large skull, since Baikal has a larger body size, that makes him 200 pounds heavier.
Reply

United States GrizzlyClaws Offline
Canine Expert
*****
Moderators
#21

(06-01-2014, 10:23 AM)'GuateGojira' Wrote:
(06-01-2014, 10:15 AM)'GrizzlyClaws' Wrote: The pic doesn't work.

According to peter, a 90mm canine in the straight line from the gumline might be too much for a big cat.


 
How doesn't work? If you can't see it, I can upload it in other type.

As for the 90 mm canine, maybe the right figure will be lower if taken in straight line. For the moment, based in the picture that I post, I think that the canines of the wild tigers are measured in straight line. In that case, the record canines of 75 mm from Madla are about the maximum in the wild, and the canines of the captive Amur will be about 80 mm, if taken in the same way.
 

 


Based on the same proportion, the canine of "Amur" is slightly over 80mm if its skull is 43cm.

The tiger species is always quite symmetric, even the wild Bengal and the captive Amur can also have very similar proportion.
 
Reply

Sri Lanka Apollo Away
Bigcat Enthusiast
*****
#22
( This post was last modified: 06-01-2014, 10:36 AM by Apollo )

(06-01-2014, 10:22 AM)'GrizzlyClaws' Wrote:
(06-01-2014, 10:17 AM)'Apollo' Wrote:
(06-01-2014, 09:56 AM)'GrizzlyClaws' Wrote:
(06-01-2014, 09:49 AM)'Apollo' Wrote:
(06-01-2014, 09:21 AM)'GrizzlyClaws' Wrote:
(06-01-2014, 08:59 AM)'Apollo' Wrote:
(06-01-2014, 04:52 AM)'GrizzlyClaws' Wrote: This guy was stated to have 90mm upper canine from the gumline, but the only thing needs to be clarified is the straight line or front curve.
 







 



90mm upto gumline is freakishly large.
Is it the longest measurement for any tiger till gumline ?
Do you have the total length of that canine (tip to root) ?
 






 


Yeah, it is perhaps the longest known record for Panthera.

According to peter, the straight line is probably unlikely, maybe in front curve. If so, that would make the canine about 80mm in the straight line from the gumline, or 90mm in the straight line from the skull.

From the tip to root, maybe up to 168mm.





 



Do we have any other measurements from this tiger like Headbody length, shoulder height, chest girth etc ?
What is the general method of measuring canines of live sedated panthera (not from the dead panthera skulls), is it straight line or is it front curve ?
 




 

The head+body length is 220cm and the shoulder height is 110cm, while the chest girth is unknown, but he looked quite bulky for his size.

About in the straight line or front curve, both methods are applicable.



 



Thanks for the measurements Grizzly claws.
Based on these measurements I think Duisburg Zoo tiger is still smaller than Baikal.
The canine measurement in Madla (80mm upto gumline) is it straight line or curved ?
 


 


Madla's canine is 75mm from the gumline in the straight line, so it is slightly smaller than "Amur".

Basically this tiger and Madla have the similar skull/canine proportion despite this one is a captive Amur and another one is a wild Bengal. Since the tiger species is very symmetric in term of the body proportion.

Madla has 40cm skull with 75mm canine, and this guy has 43cm skull with 80mm canine.

 



Thanks for the info  grizzly claws.
Reply

Sri Lanka Apollo Away
Bigcat Enthusiast
*****
#23

(06-01-2014, 10:23 AM)'GuateGojira' Wrote:
(06-01-2014, 10:15 AM)'GrizzlyClaws' Wrote: The pic doesn't work.

According to peter, a 90mm canine in the straight line from the gumline might be too much for a big cat.


 
How doesn't work? If you can't see it, I can upload it in other type.

As for the 90 mm canine, maybe the right figure will be lower if taken in straight line. For the moment, based in the picture that I post, I think that the canines of the wild tigers are measured in straight line. In that case, the record canines of 75 mm from Madla are about the maximum in the wild, and the canines of the captive Amur will be about 80 mm, if taken in the same way.
 

 



Guate do you have other wild bengal and wild amur canine measurements ?
 
Reply

Sri Lanka Apollo Away
Bigcat Enthusiast
*****
#24
( This post was last modified: 06-01-2014, 01:40 PM by Apollo )

Tall and huge lions


*This image is copyright of its original author




*This image is copyright of its original author


 
2 users Like Apollo's post
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chaos Offline
wildlife enthusiast
***
#25

Big kitties, for sure.
Reply

India sanjay Offline
Wildanimal Enthusiast
*****
#26

Judging Size only by seeing Images is not always correct. Images Miss the 3rd dimension.

Images from some angles give a large appearance on other hand it may be small appearance when captured from another angle. Also comparing them near by objects in picture is not always correct because we can not measure the depth in images.
1 user Likes sanjay's post
Reply

Sri Lanka Apollo Away
Bigcat Enthusiast
*****
#27

(06-01-2014, 09:14 PM)'sanjay' Wrote: Judging Size only by seeing Images is not always correct. Images Miss the 3rd dimension.

Images from some angles give a large appearance on other hand it may be small appearance when captured from another angle. Also comparing them near by objects in picture is not always correct because we can not measure the depth in images.

 



Good points.
 
Reply

United States GrizzlyClaws Offline
Canine Expert
*****
Moderators
#28

(06-01-2014, 10:34 AM)'Apollo' Wrote:
(06-01-2014, 10:22 AM)'GrizzlyClaws' Wrote:
(06-01-2014, 10:17 AM)'Apollo' Wrote:
(06-01-2014, 09:56 AM)'GrizzlyClaws' Wrote:
(06-01-2014, 09:49 AM)'Apollo' Wrote:
(06-01-2014, 09:21 AM)'GrizzlyClaws' Wrote:
(06-01-2014, 08:59 AM)'Apollo' Wrote:
(06-01-2014, 04:52 AM)'GrizzlyClaws' Wrote: This guy was stated to have 90mm upper canine from the gumline, but the only thing needs to be clarified is the straight line or front curve.
 








 



90mm upto gumline is freakishly large.
Is it the longest measurement for any tiger till gumline ?
Do you have the total length of that canine (tip to root) ?
 







 


Yeah, it is perhaps the longest known record for Panthera.

According to peter, the straight line is probably unlikely, maybe in front curve. If so, that would make the canine about 80mm in the straight line from the gumline, or 90mm in the straight line from the skull.

From the tip to root, maybe up to 168mm.






 



Do we have any other measurements from this tiger like Headbody length, shoulder height, chest girth etc ?
What is the general method of measuring canines of live sedated panthera (not from the dead panthera skulls), is it straight line or is it front curve ?
 





 

The head+body length is 220cm and the shoulder height is 110cm, while the chest girth is unknown, but he looked quite bulky for his size.

About in the straight line or front curve, both methods are applicable.




 



Thanks for the measurements Grizzly claws.
Based on these measurements I think Duisburg Zoo tiger is still smaller than Baikal.
The canine measurement in Madla (80mm upto gumline) is it straight line or curved ?
 



 


Madla's canine is 75mm from the gumline in the straight line, so it is slightly smaller than "Amur".

Basically this tiger and Madla have the similar skull/canine proportion despite this one is a captive Amur and another one is a wild Bengal. Since the tiger species is very symmetric in term of the body proportion.

Madla has 40cm skull with 75mm canine, and this guy has 43cm skull with 80mm canine.


 



Thanks for the info  grizzly claws.

 


Here is Guate's work, just scale the 38.3cm wild Amur skull up to 43cm, then you can see that the canine size also matches with the Duisburg Zoo specimen.


*This image is copyright of its original author
Reply

Sri Lanka Apollo Away
Bigcat Enthusiast
*****
#29

(06-01-2014, 09:50 PM)'GrizzlyClaws' Wrote:
(06-01-2014, 10:34 AM)'Apollo' Wrote:
(06-01-2014, 10:22 AM)'GrizzlyClaws' Wrote:
(06-01-2014, 10:17 AM)'Apollo' Wrote:
(06-01-2014, 09:56 AM)'GrizzlyClaws' Wrote:
(06-01-2014, 09:49 AM)'Apollo' Wrote:
(06-01-2014, 09:21 AM)'GrizzlyClaws' Wrote:
(06-01-2014, 08:59 AM)'Apollo' Wrote:
(06-01-2014, 04:52 AM)'GrizzlyClaws' Wrote: This guy was stated to have 90mm upper canine from the gumline, but the only thing needs to be clarified is the straight line or front curve.
 









 



90mm upto gumline is freakishly large.
Is it the longest measurement for any tiger till gumline ?
Do you have the total length of that canine (tip to root) ?
 








 


Yeah, it is perhaps the longest known record for Panthera.

According to peter, the straight line is probably unlikely, maybe in front curve. If so, that would make the canine about 80mm in the straight line from the gumline, or 90mm in the straight line from the skull.

From the tip to root, maybe up to 168mm.







 



Do we have any other measurements from this tiger like Headbody length, shoulder height, chest girth etc ?
What is the general method of measuring canines of live sedated panthera (not from the dead panthera skulls), is it straight line or is it front curve ?
 






 

The head+body length is 220cm and the shoulder height is 110cm, while the chest girth is unknown, but he looked quite bulky for his size.

About in the straight line or front curve, both methods are applicable.





 



Thanks for the measurements Grizzly claws.
Based on these measurements I think Duisburg Zoo tiger is still smaller than Baikal.
The canine measurement in Madla (80mm upto gumline) is it straight line or curved ?
 




 


Madla's canine is 75mm from the gumline in the straight line, so it is slightly smaller than "Amur".

Basically this tiger and Madla have the similar skull/canine proportion despite this one is a captive Amur and another one is a wild Bengal. Since the tiger species is very symmetric in term of the body proportion.

Madla has 40cm skull with 75mm canine, and this guy has 43cm skull with 80mm canine.



 



Thanks for the info  grizzly claws.


 


Here is Guate's work, just scale the 38.3cm wild Amur skull up to 43cm, then you can see that the canine size also matches with the Duisburg Zoo specimen.


*This image is copyright of its original author


 


Yes as you said there is a symmetry in the tiger skull measurements.
But is it applicable for smaller subspecies of tigers too ? Wont they have slightly longer canines for the skull size ?

Do you have any measurements for Baikal ?
The 40cm skull measurement for Madla, is it taken when he was live or dead ?

 
Reply

United States GrizzlyClaws Offline
Canine Expert
*****
Moderators
#30

(06-01-2014, 10:13 PM)'Apollo' Wrote:
(06-01-2014, 09:50 PM)'GrizzlyClaws' Wrote:
(06-01-2014, 10:34 AM)'Apollo' Wrote:
(06-01-2014, 10:22 AM)'GrizzlyClaws' Wrote:
(06-01-2014, 10:17 AM)'Apollo' Wrote:
(06-01-2014, 09:56 AM)'GrizzlyClaws' Wrote:
(06-01-2014, 09:49 AM)'Apollo' Wrote:
(06-01-2014, 09:21 AM)'GrizzlyClaws' Wrote:
(06-01-2014, 08:59 AM)'Apollo' Wrote:
(06-01-2014, 04:52 AM)'GrizzlyClaws' Wrote: This guy was stated to have 90mm upper canine from the gumline, but the only thing needs to be clarified is the straight line or front curve.
 










 



90mm upto gumline is freakishly large.
Is it the longest measurement for any tiger till gumline ?
Do you have the total length of that canine (tip to root) ?
 









 


Yeah, it is perhaps the longest known record for Panthera.

According to peter, the straight line is probably unlikely, maybe in front curve. If so, that would make the canine about 80mm in the straight line from the gumline, or 90mm in the straight line from the skull.

From the tip to root, maybe up to 168mm.








 



Do we have any other measurements from this tiger like Headbody length, shoulder height, chest girth etc ?
What is the general method of measuring canines of live sedated panthera (not from the dead panthera skulls), is it straight line or is it front curve ?
 







 

The head+body length is 220cm and the shoulder height is 110cm, while the chest girth is unknown, but he looked quite bulky for his size.

About in the straight line or front curve, both methods are applicable.






 



Thanks for the measurements Grizzly claws.
Based on these measurements I think Duisburg Zoo tiger is still smaller than Baikal.
The canine measurement in Madla (80mm upto gumline) is it straight line or curved ?
 





 


Madla's canine is 75mm from the gumline in the straight line, so it is slightly smaller than "Amur".

Basically this tiger and Madla have the similar skull/canine proportion despite this one is a captive Amur and another one is a wild Bengal. Since the tiger species is very symmetric in term of the body proportion.

Madla has 40cm skull with 75mm canine, and this guy has 43cm skull with 80mm canine.




 



Thanks for the info  grizzly claws.



 


Here is Guate's work, just scale the 38.3cm wild Amur skull up to 43cm, then you can see that the canine size also matches with the Duisburg Zoo specimen.


*This image is copyright of its original author



 


Yes as you said there is a symmetry in the tiger skull measurements.
But is it applicable for smaller subspecies of tigers too ? Wont they have slightly longer canines for the skull size ?

Do you have any measurements for Baikal ?
The 40cm skull measurement for Madla, is it taken when he was live or dead ?

 

 


The island tigers shouldn't take into account since their conspecification with the mainland tigers is still debatable. Amur and Bengal can be compared to each other as they both belong to the mainland tiger clade.

Baikal stands at 4 feet tall and being 8 feet in the head+body length.

Madla's skull is around 40cm, so this means his head measurement is actually a bit longer.
 
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