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Tiger Predation

India parvez Offline
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United States Pckts Online
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( This post was last modified: 09-13-2018, 10:00 PM by Pckts )

(09-13-2018, 04:47 AM)Apollo Wrote:
(09-12-2018, 07:53 PM)Pckts Wrote: @parvez 
Gaurs come in many sizes,  most females aren’t super impressive and well within the capabilities of most Tigers I’ve seen, the same for Cape buffalos and Lions. It’s the big Bulls of either species that are ah inspiring, it makes you realize the true strength of these big cats. But those feats of strength are usually outliers.




Gaurs are bigger animals than cape buffaloes (on average and at maximum). When it comes to Big Bulls it's gaurs all the way. 
I see many people try to fit gaurs and cape buffaloes in the same weight category, that's totally wrong. It's just like downsizing gaurs.
We may compare water buffaloes to Gaurs but still they are smaller than gaurs.

Here is a comparison made by Roflcopters I guess (not sure though).
It gives us a rough idea on these animals.


*This image is copyright of its original author
It's not that cut and dry, there are plenty of Capes that outsize Gaurs I saw, but yes you are correct, the largest of the Gaur Bulls definitely outsize the Largest of the Cape bulls for sure.
But they are very different looking animals, Capes are much more stout and round, Gaurs are much taller and narrower, especially in the rear section.
The gigantic Gaurs are much harder to see, they tend to be on their own a lot more, the majority of Gaur cows and Cape cows are nothing special, at least when you are comparing them to their prime bull counter parts. But even that being said, a big bull Cape will outsize a smaller sized Gaur bull usually. Trust me, there is nothing small about a prime big bull Cape Buffalo, it is a massive beast and the same for a big bull Gaur, no bovine I have seen has compared to the biggest of bull Gaurs though, they are in a league of their own.

One quick story on just how big some Cape Bulls are...
While we were in the Crater, there was a group of large Bachelor Capes off in the distance, they were all laying down and there was a large group of jeeps sitting there with their binoculars out and we were wondering why, my guide who worked in the Crater for 5 years prior said that he though there was a Black Rhino laying near them, we sat there for a while until the large mound that we thought was a Rhino finally moved a little and then we say that it was actually just a large Cape Bull with his buddies. If guides who have been working there all their life can be confused by the size of a Cape, that just goes to show how large some can be.
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India Suhail Offline
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Agree that.it may true for indian specimens.gaur come in many sizes.the case of southeast asian gaurs are often less documented.but their size always amaze us.there are some striking difference between indian and southeast asian specimens.Southeast Asian specimens are much bigger with massive dorsal ridge and more robust built.they can easily differentiated from indians by their relatively less wide horn span and much darker skin coat. The availability of optimal habitat may attributed to its bigger size

Even females posses great size
From huai kha kaeng ws.thailand

*This image is copyright of its original author

A bull from vietnam,compare with domestic one.

*This image is copyright of its original author

Video showing herd with many females and a bull.(best for comparing with other species) from 6:30 



most indian does not grow beyond the limit of southeast asian one and well within the capabilities of tigers.here each individuals including females posses massive body size.Perhaps the bigger size of southeast asian gaurs might be a reason for the indochinese tigers avoided the adults.While we have a quite many records of tigers hunting gaurs in india.
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( This post was last modified: 09-13-2018, 11:36 PM by Pckts )

(09-13-2018, 10:50 PM)Suhail Wrote: Agree that.it may true for indian specimens.gaur come in many sizes.the case of southeast asian gaurs are often less documented.but their size always amaze us.there are some striking difference between indian and southeast asian specimens.Southeast Asian specimens are much bigger with massive dorsal ridge and more robust built.they can easily differentiated from indians by their relatively less wide horn span and much darker skin coat. The availability of optimal habitat may attributed to its bigger size

Even females posses great size
From huai kha kaeng ws.thailand

*This image is copyright of its original author

A bull from vietnam,compare with domestic one.

*This image is copyright of its original author

Video showing herd with many females and a bull.(best for comparing with other species) from 6:30 



most indian does not grow beyond the limit of southeast asian one and well within the capabilities of tigers.here each individuals including females posses massive body size.Perhaps the bigger size of southeast asian gaurs might be a reason for the indochinese tigers avoided the adults.While we have a quite many records of tigers hunting gaurs in india.

I think it has more to do with the minimal documentation of Indochinese tigers, while they are slightly smaller than their Bengal counterparts they still get to decent enough size to predate on Gaur of all sizes. I have my doubts that Gaur in southeast asia would be any larger than Gaur in Central India as well, if so I'm sure the differences would be minimal, but that's just my opinion of course.
"Imagination was given to man to compensate him for what he is not, and a sense of humor was provided to console him for what he is."
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United States Roflcopters Offline
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@Pckts 

I always thought the gaurs from South India were a tad bit larger than their cousins in other parts. do we have any studies on their weights? It would be nice to know.
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Nepal Jimmy Offline
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( This post was last modified: 09-14-2018, 07:27 AM by Jimmy )

I have always read that Southeast Asian gaur being the largest, superficially if only looking at the photo this could be deceiving because South Indian gaur has the largest dewlap so it looks gigantic compared to others, for sometime i have come to distinguish gaurs from different regions:
South-east Asian gaurs:
1, very dark coat almost jet black, including cows and calves are much darker
2, darker muzzle or nose
3, have relatively yellow legs and sharply contrasting black tipped horns

*This image is copyright of its original author


South-Indian gaur:
1, dark brown hide/coat for males, female and calves brown
2, largest dewlaps i have ever seen
3, definitely has paler or grey muzzle

*This image is copyright of its original author

Northern Indian or Nepalese gaur doesnot normally has a large dewlap like South-Indian ones

*This image is copyright of its original author

these are what i see, sometimes these features can overlap but for the most part it is pretty clear
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(09-14-2018, 06:08 AM)Roflcopters Wrote: @Pckts 

I always thought the gaurs from South India were a tad bit larger than their cousins in other parts. do we have any studies on their weights? It would be nice to know.

He was speaking about Southeast Asia " Indonesia, Thailand, Vietnam, Singapore, Malaysia, MORE"
Which I have also read as being larger than their Indian Cousins, but I haven't seen weights to support that but I did find one from Vietnam

"Dung said they found three small wounds in the shoulder and belly of the male gaur, which was aged around 10 and weighed 800kg.
“The gaur’s body parts were intact.”
Park rangers are working with the local police and animal health agency to identify the cause of death.

On February 28 rangers had found the head and skeleton of a female gaur weighing around 200 kg, also in Ma Da Forest."
 
http://www.thanhniennews.com/society/another-endangered-gaur-found-dead-in-protected-southern-vietnam-forest-60199.html










In regards to Southern Indian Gaur being larger than Central, I'm not so sure about that.
From my experience it is the terrain that determines the size, Places like Kanha with year round green foliage, large watering holes and lower temperatures will generate healthier specimens. 

If we look at these forest types for instance 

*This image is copyright of its original author


I would guess that the Tropical Moist forests would contribute to larger herbivores, having been to Thailand, it certainly has areas that are extremely dense with green plant life and it definitely is wet, so I would assume that quite a few places around that area would have large herbivores as well. But there must be a common ground, if the foliage is too dense than it would be hard for a large herbivore to move.
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India Suhail Offline
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( This post was last modified: 09-15-2018, 01:33 AM by Suhail )

I have found few reports regarding the weights of southeast asian gaur.it doesn't concludes all southeasian gaurs are massive by looking only at these news reports.but one can believe the gaurs from these regions on an average bigger than their indian counterparts.by examining their most prefered habitat(semi evergreen to moist decidous)which is abundunt their range.
2 of the weight records i found:
  • Vetarinarian Supalak Prachan from the Protected Area Regional 7 Office, led a team to conduct an autopsy on the five-year-old 1.3-tonne gaur. The examination found the animal suffered fatal trauma and internal bleeding.
http://www.nationmultimedia.com/detail/breakingnews/30333244
  • The forestry officials said that the gaur which weighs 1,200 kilogrammes and aged between 10-12 years old bore seven bullet holes inflicted by a shotgun. It was believed to have died 3-4 days ago.
Those southeastasian jungles also supported one of the highest megafauna diversity outside africa in modern era.which only extripated in recent years ago .especially in the northeastern plains of cambodia,western forest complex in thailand etc.wildlife includes wild water buffaloes,elephants,kouprey(extinct?),banteng,2kinds of rhinocerous(extinct) and many more..
The abundance of such suitable habitat might produced the bigger and more diverse wildlife.

In regards to Southern Indian Gaur being larger than Central, I'm pretty sure about that,from the kind of habiat that found in south india.
these are my opinions only.it may not be true at all
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( This post was last modified: 09-15-2018, 01:18 AM by Pckts )

(09-15-2018, 01:10 AM)Suhail Wrote: I have found few reports regarding the weights of southeast asian gaur.it doesn't concludes all southeasian gaurs are massive by looking only at these news reports.but one can believe the gaurs from these regions on an average bigger than their indian counterparts.by examining their most prefered habitat(semi evergreen to moist decidous)which is abundunt their range.
2 of the weight records i found:
  • Vetarinarian Supalak Prachan from the Protected Area Regional 7 Office, led a team to conduct an autopsy on the five-year-old 1.3-tonne gaur. The examination found the animal suffered fatal trauma and internal bleeding.
http://www.nationmultimedia.com/detail/breakingnews/30333244
  • The forestry officials said that the gaur which weighs 1,200 kilogrammes and aged between 10-12 years old bore seven bullet holes inflicted by a shotgun. It was believed to have died 3-4 days ago.
http://englishnews.thaipbs.or.th/male-gaur-found-dead-tapioca-plantation/]http://englishnews.thaipbs.or.th/male-gaur-found-dead-tapioca-plantation/[/url]
Those southeastasian jungles also supported one of the highest megafauna diversity outside africa in modern era.which only extripated in recent years ago .especially in the northeastern plains of cambodia,western forest complex in thailand etc.wildlife includes wild water buffaloes,elephants,kouprey(extinct?),banteng,2kinds of rhinocerous(extinct) and many more..
The abundance of such suitable habitat might produced the bigger and more diverse wildlife.

In regards to Southern Indian Gaur being larger than Central, I'm pretty sure about that,from the kind habiat that found in south india.
these are my opinions only.it may not be true at all.

Valid opinion, if those Gaur were actually weighed then those are massive individuals, I would have serious doubts that I ever saw a Gaur that was close to 2800lbs in the reserves I went to in C. India.
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From my archives - Tigress hunting Hog Deer - K A Z I R A N G A

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Venezuela epaiva Online
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( This post was last modified: 09-20-2018, 07:36 AM by epaiva )

Tiger Attack Live in India



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( This post was last modified: 09-20-2018, 08:49 AM by Wolverine )

(09-20-2018, 07:35 AM)epaiva Wrote: Tiger Attack Live in India




Amazing video Amigo, it reminds me the beginning of the movie "Tiger of Eshnapur" (1959) of Fritz Lang:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Tiger_...1959_film)

The movie starts with a cadres of panic encompassing a provincial 19th century Indian town with the fall of darkness due to maroudering tiger man-eater. With the approach of night all inhabitans including cattle hurry to hide behind the ancient city walls.
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India parvez Offline
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( This post was last modified: 09-20-2018, 11:28 PM by parvez )

Almost all bovines are killed with bite to the neck region. Bite to the top portion of neck seems to be the most effective in this killing the prey in a few minutes. I am unable to figure out how it is so effective, does it break the wall of blood vessels or breaks the bone or vertebrae like in case of jaguar? If the second one is right, then bite force of tiger will be somewhere around or more than jaguars'. After the probability of breaking vertebrae, spinal cord is the next most sensitive target. Could this be the reason? Or a bite to the chief nerves or blood vessels eases the way? Does anyone know what is the answer?
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Germany Jeffrey Offline
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( This post was last modified: 09-21-2018, 04:53 AM by Jeffrey )

(09-20-2018, 11:07 PM)parvez Wrote: Almost all bovines are killed with bite to the neck region. Bite to the top portion of neck seems to be the most effective in this killing the prey in a few minutes. I am unable to figure out how it is so effective, does it break the wall of blood vessels or breaks the bone or vertebrae like in case of jaguar? If the second one is right, then bite force of tiger will be somewhere around or more than jaguars'. After the probability of breaking vertebrae, spinal cord is the next most sensitive target. Could this be the reason? Or a bite to the chief nerves or blood vessels eases the way? Does anyone know what is the answer?



Normally a bovine is killed by biting the top of the neck and severing the spinal cord or 
biting the bottom or side of the neck to suffocate the animal or to severe the carotid artery. With a throat hold the
Windpipe is either crushed or blocked mostly.
The trachea, colloquially called the windpipe, is a cartilaginous tube that connects the pharynx and larynx to the lungs, allowing the passage of air and so is present in almost all land animals.
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