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(12-24-2020, 08:32 PM)Matimbalani Wrote: From reading various posts it seems that their problem was also that they were spread out between different prides. This made it easier for the Majings to isolate and kill them off. Just goes to show how unique and ultimately successful the Majings were in their approach
It was 4 vs 3, they couldn't win even if Majingilanes didn't isolate Selati #3..
(12-24-2020, 08:32 PM)Matimbalani Wrote: From reading various posts it seems that their problem was also that they were spread out between different prides. This made it easier for the Majings to isolate and kill them off. Just goes to show how unique and ultimately successful the Majings were in their approach
It was 4 vs 3, they couldn't win even if Majingilanes didn't isolate Selati #3..
4vs3 is definitelly winnable.
It wasn't a problem that Salatis had too much prides and were too spread around either as Majingilanes in fact by that time controlled larger arena with more prides. Problem was that Majingilanes had better bond with each others and were always united when they needed to be (that is when they were about to confront another coalition) and Salatis were not.
(12-24-2020, 09:42 PM)Potato Wrote: 4vs3 is definitelly winnable.
It wasn't a problem that Salatis had too much prides and were too spread around either as Majingilanes in fact by that time controlled larger arena with more prides. Problem was that Majingilanes had better bond with each others and were always united when they needed to be (that is when they were about to confront another coalition) and Salatis were not.
I dont think it was winnable, not against experience and prime coalition like Majingilanes with great teamwork..
At that time Hip Scar was still healthy and powerful, later on power of Majingilanes fall off as he was injured and in worse condition..
This where prime Majingilanes in early 2014, i dont think any coalition of 3 would be able to beat them in that situation..
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(12-24-2020, 09:42 PM)Potato Wrote: 4vs3 is definitelly winnable.
It wasn't a problem that Salatis had too much prides and were too spread around either as Majingilanes in fact by that time controlled larger arena with more prides. Problem was that Majingilanes had better bond with each others and were always united when they needed to be (that is when they were about to confront another coalition) and Salatis were not.
I dont think it was winnable, not against experience and prime coalition like Majingilanes with great teamwork..
At that time Hip Scar was still healthy and powerful, later on power of Majingilanes fall off as he was injured and in worse condition..
This where prime Majingilanes in early 2014, i dont think any coalition of 3 would be able to beat them in that situation..
There is quite a few encounters between Salatis and Majingis since 2012 and Salatis hold their own more or less untill cought and killed on of Salatis. I was talking about 4vs3 in general, not particullarly about Majingis althrough also worth mentioning is that Southern Matimbas and Matshapiris hold their own against Majingis in 2vs3 which is even more of an disadvantage than 3vs4. Majingis sure were very efficient in warfare althrough they were not unbeatable.
As far as I understand, the Majingalani seldom engaged unless they had numerical superiority. In conflict they operated as a group. The margins in a 3 v 4 are not good but it's definitely not a given that the larger coalition would necessarily win. The Mapogos were a bigger more experienced coalition but after the initial loss of a member the Majingalani rolled the Mapogos back to the west. This is why I am reluctant to use too many superlatives for the Mapogos--if they were exceptional than what does that make the Majingalani?
12-25-2020, 03:48 AM( This post was last modified: 12-25-2020, 03:53 AM by Tr1x24 )
(12-25-2020, 02:33 AM)Matimbalani Wrote: As far as I understand, the Majingalani seldom engaged unless they had numerical superiority. In conflict they operated as a group. The margins in a 3 v 4 are not good but it's definitely not a given that the larger coalition would necessarily win. The Mapogos were a bigger more experienced coalition but after the initial loss of a member the Majingalani rolled the Mapogos back to the west. This is why I am reluctant to use too many superlatives for the Mapogos--if they were exceptional than what does that make the Majingalani?
Lets get this straight, Mapogos where great coalition, very unique and characteristic lions,fan favorites etc. but when we talk about success, Majingilanes are the most successful coalition in Sabi Sands in the past 20 yrs..
But remember that Mapogos lost 1 or 2 of their members to poachers, without that, i doubt they would lost western sector to Selatis in 2012 and their legacy would be better..
The Mapogos superiority in numbers actually didn't help them, the Majingalanes had to go against only two of them. The five Mapogos after MrT rejoined them were never gonna go fight off the Majigalanes for a territory they couldn't realistically defend. They were already spread thin hence why they split up in the first place leaving the eastern two Mapogos vulnerable, the story about five of them going back to elephant plains to challenge the Majingalanes was probably similar to how the Bboys made one last show of force in Djuma before going to Malamala for good. It wasn't a full-blown challenge but merely enforcing boundaries.
Well there's really no objective measure to determining a "great" lion coalition. Ultimately it's our personal preferences, recency bias, cherry picking of facts and narrative framing that we use to convince of ourselves of one thing or another. I would be the first to admit that.
As English soccer fans like to say "If my aunt had balls, she would be my uncle." So it goes with lions.
(01-17-2021, 03:48 AM)Psyckoo Wrote: I wanted to ask, they were 5, 2 control Charleston and Selati pride, where go the 3 others and did we have some information ?
3 split and moved into Kruger, its unknown what happened to them..
Lions of Africa - Selati (5 males) 2007/08-2017
Sabi Sands Game Reserve - South Africa
Ranger report: Lament for a Fallen King
...He was officially called Selati Male No. 2, but to me his name will always be Hank. Sometimes written in uppercase, often with an exclamation point. HANK! It was a nom de plume I gave him after Kim and I visited Sabi Sands in 2011 and first laid eyes on No. 2 and his three Selati Coalition brothers (similarly named Selati Males No. 1, 3, and 4). Born around 2007 and the beginning of 2008 to different litters in the Southern Pride, the Selatis (sometimes also referred to as the Southern Coalition) were originally five strong when they came of age. All muscle and ambition, in April 2011 they were given both the figurative and literal slap on the nose by the mighty Mapogo Coalition. The Mapogos controlled a vast swath of land in Sabi Sands and were to be feared with good reason. It is estimated that they were single-handedly responsible for killing over sixty (some say even 100 lions) during their reign, and they certainly weren’t going to let some young turks bully them off their patch. After a another scuffle in February 2012 that would see the Mapogo’s Pretty Boy injured, the Selatis were eventually sent roaring off into the night with the Mapogos claiming victory. In March 2012 Hank and company would redress their grievances with the Mapogos in a battle that would see the latter’s infamous Mr. T. fatally struck down. But by then the Selatis would number only four. In the intervening months between their two battles with the Mapogos the youngest of the five Selatis was hunted down and mercilessly killed in one of the coalition’s first encounters with the equally fierce Majingilanes.
In the months following their triumph over the Mapogos, Hank and his three surviving brothers-in-arms held out and held their own, carving out sizeable territory and siring numerous and ridiculously cute cubs along the way with both the Ximhungwe and Othawa prides. Many believe, and rightly so, that they are contenders to the throne for some of Sabi Sands’ most prized territory, and that when the final showdown does come between them and the Majingilanes it will be, simply put, epic — as one would only expect when the armies of kings collide.
Why Hank, then? What made him so special? Over the two days Kim and I spent watching the Selati Coalition he always seemed to be mugging for the camera. Whether it was holding his head high and wearing a devilish grin while his mane blew back in the wind, or with his tongue lollygagging out the side of his mouth as if he were pulling faces for you, or staring at us with a “Hey babe, come here often?” look that would make even Don Draper jealous, every single time I focused my camera in on the coalition Hank was there filling the frame and oozing charisma. Which was why “Selati No. 2” seemed so unbecoming for someone with so much moxie. He deserved something better, he deserved something more fitting, he deserved… HANK!
All of which has made the news so much harder to take with recent reports out of Sabi Sands mentioning only three Selati males whenever the coalition was spotted. The fourth – No. 2 – was being seen less-and-less by his brothers’ side; and on the occasions when Hank was spotted, either with the coalition or on his own, he was almost always reported to be weak, frail, and struggling. He was first witnessed noticeably injured last December and the conclusion, though unverified, was that he had received internal injuries – possibly broken ribs in a dust-up with buffalo – that kept digging at his insides. Not enough to bring him to a full stop, but still enough to slowly wear him down over the weeks and months that followed. A king hobbled by a thorn no shepherd could remove. Finally, on October 15th 2012 Inyati Game Lodge confirmed the news we’d all been waiting for but were dreading to hear: Selati No. 2 had fallen – a king was dead. (written by Craig)
During May 2013 another Selati has fallen after the intense war against the Majingis. Selati #3 died of his wounds and deadly injuries. Once as the Kings of the West, the 2 remaining Selati Boys #1 and #4, left Sabi Sands and moved into the North (Manyeleti - Timbavati region). Finally the Selatis took over the Talamati pride from the Northern Matimbas who left the area. In February the ginger maned Selati #4 died after being infected by TB. The Boss of Selati (#1) was now the only one left. Over the next months he spent time with his pride until he disappeared by the end of 2017. The End of an amazing Lion story...
