There is a world somewhere between reality and fiction. Although ignored by many, it is very real and so are those living in it. This forum is about the natural world. Here, wild animals will be heard and respected. The forum offers a glimpse into an unknown world as well as a room with a view on the present and the future. Anyone able to speak on behalf of those living in the emerald forest and the deep blue sea is invited to join.
No. Animals also have different characters, they are not all the same as some say or think. And the behavior of many of the Mapogo, including Kinky Tail was brave, even reckless, that of all Maginjilane, except the 5th, cowardly, just a statement. And no, Mapogo and Maginjilane are not the same, as are Matimba, Avoca, KNP, etc. etc. each has its own character.
(05-05-2022, 02:53 AM)WildRev Wrote: Yes yes mapogo good majingilane bad
Does it seem normal behavior for lions to eat their defeated opponent after breaking his spine in three places, when, usually once paralyzed, he is left to die? Or is it normal behavior that out of 4 lions, for 8 years that have dominated vast territories, there has NEVER been a 1 vs 1 battle by an MJ?
(05-05-2022, 08:50 PM)Gabriele Wrote: No. Animals also have different characters, they are not all the same as some say or think. And the behavior of many of the Mapogo, including Kinky Tail was brave, even reckless, that of all Maginjilane, except the 5th, cowardly, just a statement. And no, Mapogo and Maginjilane are not the same, as are Matimba, Avoca, KNP, etc. etc. each has its own character.
Theres no "brave" and "cowardly" behavior in lions, they are not humans, we cant judge their behavior thru human behavior.
Lions world is numbers game, whole pourpose why males stay together and form a coalition is to have better chances to defeat their enemy and conquer vast territory and prides.
In lions world there is nothing "cowardly" in defeating your opponent in 4/5 vs 1 or something, because thats how things work out there.
Majingilanes as Mapogos and any other coalition did it, they are no different.
(05-05-2022, 08:53 PM)Gabriele Wrote: Does it seem normal behavior for lions to eat their defeated opponent after breaking his spine in three places, when, usually once paralyzed, he is left to die? Or is it normal behavior that out of 4 lions, for 8 years that have dominated vast territories, there has NEVER been a 1 vs 1 battle by an MJ?
1. Lions do eat other lions who they kill sometimes, just few days ago Kruger male (or Skybed son) eated subadult from Imbali pride which he killed.
2. Why would they fight 1vs1 or outnumbered (which they did few times) if you have big numbers? As i said, its numbers game.
(05-05-2022, 09:18 PM)Tr1x24 Wrote: Theres no "brave" and "cowardly" behavior in lions, they are not humans, we cant judge their behavior thru human behavior.
Actually there are. Bravery and cowardice are in general coming from instincts, not that much from human civilization culture.
05-05-2022, 09:30 PM( This post was last modified: 05-05-2022, 09:37 PM by Tr1x24 )
(05-05-2022, 01:15 AM)Gabriele Wrote: The majingilane 'who then made history' could have intervened in defense of their leader. They didn't, yet they were close by. The 5th was defending himself well, despite being young and alone inflicted several wounds on mr. T and above all to KT who limped conspicuously after the fight. In fact, the skull of the young 5th Majingi was much larger than that of Kinky Tail, he would have become a very large lion, perhaps like Makulu. However, his brothers were not Mapogos. I don't think the 5 Mapogo would have left Big Mak to be slaughtered by two lions alone, although this never happened, although Mak often patrolled alone. The question is cleared too easily by citing behaviors that we cannot understand, simply 'the wild'. I don't think so, there are behaviors that transcend simple nature, and that's why these animals fascinate men. I can't like Maginjilane. It is not only for brutally killing Shaka, Mr. T was also killed, albeit in a more 'traditional' way by the Selatis, but it is all their behavior, cowardly and cowardly that they have always shown, since their entry on the scene, until their end. When they didn't save the big brother, and they had the chance, when they always separated the other lions to attack them as a group, and never once they accepted a fight, I won't say 4vs4, but not even 2vs4, or 1vs4 or nothing, not even when they had to kill sub-adults.
This is not the way how you should you look at lions, they are animals afterall, doing their best to survive.
Theres no term "cowardly" in lion world, this is not a movie about heroes or something, this is fight for survival.
05-05-2022, 09:34 PM( This post was last modified: 05-05-2022, 10:09 PM by Tr1x24 )
(05-05-2022, 09:27 PM)Potato Wrote: Actually there are. Bravery and cowardice are in general coming from instincts, not that much from human civilization culture.
I im speaking about terms which he uses, ofc animals do have instincts which can be described like that, but i would call it confidence and fear.
For example lion is not a coward if he runs away from 3 attacking males, he is just running for his life, surviving, because if he stays and fight he will get killed.
Its like saying, you are a coward because you dont want to get killed.
Or as he says, they are cowards because they kill in unfair way, then every lion is a coward, whole pourpose of prides and coalitions is to kill in unfair way, otherwise they would be solo predators like leopards.
You cant use term coward when talking about animals.
They are animals (like us humans too), they are not robots, everyone has their own behavior. Have you ever had a dog or a cat? Have you had more than one or compared to those of friends? Then you will know that they are not all the same as you say.
(05-05-2022, 08:53 PM)Gabriele Wrote: Does it seem normal behavior for lions to eat their defeated opponent after breaking his spine in three places, when, usually once paralyzed, he is left to die? Or is it normal behavior that out of 4 lions, for 8 years that have dominated vast territories, there has NEVER been a 1 vs 1 battle by an MJ?
1. Lions do eat other lions who they kill sometimes, just few days ago Kruger male (or Skybed son) eated subadult from Imbali pride which he killed.
2. Why would they fight 1vs1 or outnumbered (which they did few times) if you have big numbers? As i said, its numbers game.
1. Sure but infrequent, maginjilane had a cannibal fondness not only for Kinky Tail (as in part Mr. T, but not as commonly for lions). 2. Simply because in 8 years that you are dominant, sooner or later, it happens, if you have never seen anything like this it means that in the case of 1vs1 they have always fled, another infrequent behavior in lions. We can turn around as much as we want, but Kinky Tail faced at least 2 lions alone (maybe he didn't know he was being chased by two others behind), the Maginjilane never took a chance even if they were 2 vs 1. They all had to be to face a duel . I call these differences in behavior 'courage' and 'cowardice', others may call them differently, but that they have different behaviors is indisputable, and, personally, I prefer the first behavior
05-05-2022, 11:49 PM( This post was last modified: 05-05-2022, 11:56 PM by Tr1x24 )
(05-05-2022, 11:37 PM)Gabriele Wrote: 1. Sure but infrequent, maginjilane had a cannibal fondness not only for Kinky Tail (as in part Mr. T, but not as commonly for lions). 2. Simply because in 8 years that you are dominant, sooner or later, it happens, if you have never seen anything like this it means that in the case of 1vs1 they have always fled, another infrequent behavior in lions. We can turn around as much as we want, but Kinky Tail faced at least 2 lions alone (maybe he didn't know he was being chased by two others behind), the Maginjilane never took a chance even if they were 2 vs 1. They all had to be to face a duel . I call these differences in behavior 'courage' and 'cowardice', others may call them differently, but that they have different behaviors is indisputable, and, personally, I prefer the first behavior
I guess you need to reseach Majingilanes history a bit more, they are many examples in which they fight/clash in same or different odds, they didnt run away as you said.
Also, what matters to you if somebody fight 1vs1 or 2vs1 or 1vs5? lol
Majingilanes have reign for 8 yrs, they definitely did things the right way, as lion coalitions should.
05-05-2022, 11:51 PM( This post was last modified: 05-06-2022, 12:17 AM by Tr1x24 )
(05-05-2022, 11:30 PM)Gabriele Wrote: They are animals (like us humans too), they are not robots, everyone has their own behavior. Have you ever had a dog or a cat? Have you had more than one or compared to those of friends? Then you will know that they are not all the same as you say.
You miss the point.
Ofc individual lions and animals have different characters.
Im saying that all lion coalitions work the same way, Majingilanes are no different then Mapogos, Mapogos also where killing 5/6 vs 1 and i dont see you calling them cowards.
You like Mapogos, which is great, but dont call out other coalitions being "cowards" for being what they are, wild lions trying to survive.
The majingilane 'who then made history' could have intervened in defense of their leader. They didn't, yet they were close by. The 5th was defending himself well, despite being young and alone inflicted several wounds on mr. T and above all to KT who limped conspicuously after the fight. In fact, the skull of the young 5th Majingi was much larger than that of Kinky Tail, he would have become a very large lion, perhaps like Makulu. However, his brothers were not Mapogos. I don't think the 5 Mapogo would have left Big Mak to be slaughtered by two lions alone, although this never happened, although Mak often patrolled alone. The question is cleared too easily by citing behaviors that we cannot understand, simply 'the wild'. I don't think so, there are behaviors that transcend simple nature, and that's why these animals fascinate men. I can't like Maginjilane. It is not only for brutally killing Shaka, Mr. T was also killed, albeit in a more 'traditional' way by the Selatis, but it is all their behavior, cowardly and cowardly that they have always shown, since their entry on the scene, until their end. When they didn't save the big brother, and they had the chance, when they always separated the other lions to attack them as a group, and never once they accepted a fight, I won't say 4vs4, but not even 2vs4, or 1vs4 or nothing, not even when they had to kill sub-adults.
5th was indeed bigger than KT, but it only looked "much" bigger because a good portion of Shaka's skull was lost.
Also, just like humans, lions may gain and lose muscular mass depending on how much they're eating, but 5th wouldn't have grown a single inch anymore, lions stop growing around 3-4 years, only their mane continues to grow and the Majingilanes had full manes by december of that same year since it was when we got pictures of them killing a hyena.
I won't call any lion a coward though, I'd bet even the least brave lion is much braver than the bravest human.
It's true that they had no fair fights* but 2 of them chased 2 BBoys once. That, however, only matters for a "cool factor" from a human perspective which I guess is fine, but the fact the Majingilane were so smart and good at ganging at other lions should be admired instead, it just shows how overall good they were as lions.
Of course I'd rather not have Shaka dying that night and in that way, but it is what it is. He went down like a legend who charged and chased 4 males by himself while carrying injuries.
*I do recall that from reports and the injuries seen after the fight, that it's very likely ( if not confirmed ) that Dark Mane Majingilane fought with Hairy Belly Matimba in feb 2016 ( I recall that in the post-fight they were only 300 meters from each other and Ginger was many kms away and had no recent injuries ), however HB was for sure chased by one or two other Majingilane who went to help their brother. So although it didn't ended up as what we'd call fair, they did fought 1v1 regardless unless you assume HB fought 2-3 lions from the beginning and was still able to whoop DM and give scratches to the others, while leaving without serious injuries, which I'm sure we can discard as unrealistic or downright absurd.
From the injuries, it was clear DM left that fight far worse than the Matimba male but considering how big HB was and the fact he was a bit younger, it's no surprise at all.
05-06-2022, 07:57 AM( This post was last modified: 05-06-2022, 07:58 AM by Mapokser )
(05-05-2022, 11:49 PM)Tr1x24 Wrote:
(05-05-2022, 11:37 PM)Gabriele Wrote: 1. Sure but infrequent, maginjilane had a cannibal fondness not only for Kinky Tail (as in part Mr. T, but not as commonly for lions). 2. Simply because in 8 years that you are dominant, sooner or later, it happens, if you have never seen anything like this it means that in the case of 1vs1 they have always fled, another infrequent behavior in lions. We can turn around as much as we want, but Kinky Tail faced at least 2 lions alone (maybe he didn't know he was being chased by two others behind), the Maginjilane never took a chance even if they were 2 vs 1. They all had to be to face a duel . I call these differences in behavior 'courage' and 'cowardice', others may call them differently, but that they have different behaviors is indisputable, and, personally, I prefer the first behavior
I guess you need to reseach Majingilanes history a bit more, they are many examples in which they fight/clash in same or different odds, they didnt run away as you said.
Also, what matters to you if somebody fight 1vs1 or 2vs1 or 1vs5? lol
Majingilanes have reign for 8 yrs, they definitely did things the right way, as lion coalitions should.
What are these examples you're talking about? I know that 2 of the Majins chased 2 Bboys, but is there any other instance where such a thing happened? Well I suppose there's the 2011 roaring competition with the Matimbas which I guess you can claim they "chased" the Matimbas away since it took place around Majingilane territory.
But by fight/clash you mean physical fights? If there's any equal numbers/outnumbered physical fights with the Majingilane I'll be extremely interested in reading about them since I'm only aware of the apparent DM v HB ( for me it's basically confirmed ) from 2016, but which ended up with one or more Majins eventually helping DM.
