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The Mighty Mapogos
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 (01-04-2024, 11:55 PM)Ngonya Wrote: Mapogo half brothers: Heard these boys were said to have been the suspects for the death of one West Street Male member. Crazy how male lions can be so successful and their reward for it is having to compete with their much younger sons. 
Othawa young males, the sons of the Mapogo - June 2010
Finishing a buffalo carcass  *This image is copyright of its original author  *This image is copyright of its original author  *This image is copyright of its original author  *This image is copyright of its original author  *This image is copyright of its original author  *This image is copyright of its original author  *This image is copyright of its original author The next day:  *This image is copyright of its original author  *This image is copyright of its original author  *This image is copyright of its original author  *This image is copyright of its original author  *This image is copyright of its original author  *This image is copyright of its original author  *This image is copyright of its original author by Paul Heckel
Any instance of any of the Mapogo males killing an adult bull buffalo on their own?
2005 Makhulu brings down a buffalo on his own, but he doesn't get to kill it alone because his brothers and the Eyrefield lionesses arrive and help him finishing it.
It was reported by MalaMala in their monthly reports already posted here.
1/2 elder Mangheni females today, who's turning 15yo this month, making her possibly the oldest lioness in the Sabi Sands. She's one of the 2 remaining daughters of the Mapogo Coalition.
Credits to Savanna.  *This image is copyright of its original author Following her is her son sired by the PCM, the last Mapogo grandson still confirmed to be alive:  *This image is copyright of its original author
March 16, 2012 - 12 years ago today
"Love him or hate him, the infamous short mane male in the Mapogo coalition earned the respect of his harshest critics this morning. True to his character he fought alone to protect his territory, an ageing lone male against four bristling newcomers. Unfortunately the outcome was inevitable and the death of Mr T all but ends the reign of the Mapogo. He went honorably and for that we salute him. It was a privilege to have spent six years with these animals. RIP." — Inyati Game Lodge, Sabi Sand Wildtuin
Distinctive and imposing silhouette of legend, Mr T *This image is copyright of its original author Tinged by Leopard Hills, 2010The most agressive lion known to men  *This image is copyright of its original author Tinged by Dave, 2010
 
@Mapokser
Thank you very much for this, the record of Idube is entirely new to me, and that is absolutely insane. If there were 60 lions in 2006, and only 10 survived, then indeed nearly the entire population was in fact decimated. I truly had no idea that the numbers were so low following the Mapogo, but now the anger that was directed at them back then makes a lot more sense, though still unjustifiable imo (they were, after all, simply lions doing lion things, as the one female researcher said in Brothers in Blood, they were simply trying to be the best lions they could be, and with that being the benchmark, they may well be the greatest lions to every live), but I can now understand where it was coming from. Wow, the futures for many prides were really bleak after those boys came to town, that is really mind blowing. Do you know what the question was, that he was asked about Rasta. Since Willem Botha was the head of anti-poaching, then it was clearly his job to stop what happened, at least to Dreadlocks. He touched on precisely the point of my earlier comment. Since the Mapogos had such a vast area, my thoughts were that it would have been nearly impossible for any guides to view them regularly, but he was able to do exactly that. Given that it sounds like those numbers are indeed accurate, then for sure we wouldn't want to see a repeat of that, the population is only now beginning to recover. If anyone wishes to see what the Mapogos there is plenty enough footage on YT, and Brothers in Blood for them to watch, without having to witness it in real time. I see Mr Botha as being a very hard nosed sort of fellow, based on interviews I have seen of him (in one of those videos he actually seems to be mocking the fellow from BiB that said he cried when KT died), no pity or sympathy (from his own words) for what befell KT. I totally understand that point of view, I don't feel that way personally, but do not begrudge those that do. Given that. I wonder what his thoughts are on the Mapogo doing so much damage to the population of SS. Surely the Mapogo weren't the only lions that he watched closely. I say this, as I understand that a lot of reserves and guides did not like them being around for that very reason, I just wonder if he shared in those feelings, or still believed it was simply nature being nature, and we should enjoy the individual animals while we have the chance, then enjoy the next. As I mentioned, he actually touched all 6, so was clearly very close to them, so if there is a Mapogo expert I'd imagine he's as close as we'll get. I wonder what his thoughts are on Elephant Plains, did anyone ask him about that night?
@BA0701 The guy who talked to Botha just phrased it as "he didn't reply when I asked if he knew what happened to Rasta".
My guess would just be that he had the same understanding of everybody at the time "Rasta vanished, nobody saw anything, but the Mapogo were clashing with the new coalition around that time and Rasta's twin also disappeared before showing up again at the border of the 2 coalitions, badly injured by multiple males, so Rasta was likely killed", all the guides had this understanding until the topic became taboo due to the Mapogo fanatics blaming the rangers ( think about the Nhenha situation plus 100 ). We have a few sightings of the 5 Mapogo after that night in Elephant Plains, including a video of all 5 taken by a very well-knowm photographer ( Dave Pusey ), so whatever happened there the Mapogo might not even have been involved. In 2015 talked about Dreadlocks, which is what everybody already knows, the Chiefs of 3 tribes demanded his head and threatened the rangers who wanted to dart Dreadlocks. As for having a "new Mapogos" I agree, what happened back then must have been very hard for people to follow. I could barely withstand Nhenha/NK and the PCM doing all that killing back in 2022. This WE report from early 2008 gives more info outside the Wrsterm Sector regarding lions deaths ( and in the Western Sector only, over 60 lions, IIRC 62-63 were reduced to 10 ): https://wildearth.tv/2008/05/the-mapogo-story/ WE mentions Londolozi saying the Ximunvanyane pride of 10 members were all killed by Mapogo, Botha said he once saw the Mapogos killing an entire pride where they went to kill the cubs and the lionesses tried to defend them, it must have been this pride. WE also says that Elephant Plains got a report from SS saying Mapogos killed 40% of the lion population, approximately 50 lions. And WE says the numbers certainly have risen since Londolozi reported all these deaths to them. And this was on early 2008 before the Mapogo did the most damage on the Nkuhuma super pride, and on the Styx and Sparta prides. And also before they finished killing some of the other lions they ended up killing from 2008 to 2010. It's not surprising that it was a WE ranger who said everybody was pissed over the killings and some wanted to move some of the Mapogo to other areas or even shoot some of them. I know some rangers who liked them though, like the Nkorho dude who cried for KT, I think because he must have arrived at a time most of the killing have been done already and there were no "resident" pride on Nkorho for him to see killed. The 2 eastern Mapogo were the lions he saw the most. I know Khimbini from Inyati also liked them a lot and he saw the destruction of the prides in the West, he was blatantly cheering for the Mapogo against the Selatis and was deeply saddened by Mr.T's death. But well Khimbini saw them for 6 years and he seemed to like the fact Mapogos were very aggressive and he would often call them great warriors and the such. Some others in the West like Rob I feel ( just my personal impression ) had a mix of admiration and "hate", they admired these brutal lions they followed for 6 years but also hated that they had 3 different dominant males and 3 big prides to follow in 2006 before watching Mapogos killing almost all of them but failing at raising many cubs. Rob even said that the defeat of the Mapogo to the Selati was the best thing that could have happened to the lion population because Mapogo killed most lions and barely raised any, and one of the problems, according to Rob, was that Mapogos were too obsessed with domination among themselves that they'd kill each others cubs, and the biggest culprit was Mr.T who had been killed by Selatis... I don't doubt that the reason the elder Kambula females have killed Kambula cubs in a few instances is because they inherited this behaviour from their grandfathers. As for Botha, what I can say is that he has said he has had both amazing and sad moments with the Mapogo so maybe he also had a complex "relationship" with these lions. (04-18-2024, 10:39 PM)Mapokser Wrote: @BA0701 The guy who talked to Botha just phrased it as "he didn't reply when I asked if he knew what happened to Rasta". @Mapokser , my friend, thank you so much for taking the time to write this great response up. It is very helpful. Yes, 2022 was a difficult year, we lost many beloved lions that year, and yet the actual numbers is really small when compared to what the Mapogo did. Makhulu is my all-time favorite lion, if not for him and the Mapogo, I might not be following lions nearly as closely as I do today. But, after reading about them, so much, I believe you nailed it when you said it is a very complex relationship. On the one hand we respect the Mapogo as warriors, never showing any fear, but on the other hand the results of their ferociousness can be devastating to think about. The thought of any lion coming in and wiping out all of the current Kambula cubs, or the Birmingham cubs is difficult enough for all of us to consider. Just imagine if it was Shaka or Eorenji who killed them, and the effect that would have on everyone. Regardless of our thoughts on the methods that may have been used back then (we should never hold those of the past accountable to the standards or thinking of today), I have a lot of respect for Mr. Botha, he is someone I would love to just sit down with, and talk to. For all he has witnessed and been a part of, he was right in the middle of one of the biggest moments of lion history we will ever know about. If not for that moment, I do not know if so many would follow them so closely today, for sure it is doubtful that I would be. They have opened a world to me that remains filled with so much mystery, so many unknowns, and I will forever be appreciative for that.
Video of the Mapogo's last years, pretty accurate from the most part:
Interesting that it says K6 is the daughter of 1/2 living Manghenis ( the cubless one who resembles Dreadlocks and have worn teeth ), she seems to be the biggest of the 4 original females. Assuming Dreadlocks is this Mangheni's father, I wonder if K6's father was one of the 2 biggest Majingis ( SN and GM ), as the biggest Kambula she may descent from the biggest Mangheni and also largest males of the Majingi and Mapogo coalitions. 
The video got some stuff wrong.
Mangheni with better teeth ( mother of the youngest cub currently ) is mother of the dead Ntsevu females #1 and #4. The one with worse teeth, according to the video ( I don't know if true, but by process of elimination it's probably true ) is the mother of K2 and K6, the currently cubless Ntsevu females. 
Has it been determined what killed those rather youngish Ntsevu Lionesses?
Their mom has the youngest cub in the Mangheni Pride, #10, the only grandson of the Mapogos. By a recent video clip, he looks to be rather vicious already! He was dominating a kill over one of his older cousins. He's no pushover. (05-01-2024, 01:55 AM)Cath2020 Wrote: Has it been determined what killed those rather youngish Ntsevu Lionesses? Do you have a link to this new video you referenced, would you mind sharing it in the Mangheni Pride thread? Many of us would love to see it. Thanks, my friend! |
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