The Mighty Mapogos

[afortich]

Pretty boy

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[Mapokser]

Interesting that back in the day Singita claimed that the 2,5yo Othawa subadults attacked one of their injured missing father ( probably PB ):

*This image is copyright of its original author

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[Ttimemarti]

(12-09-2023, 03:50 AM)Mapokser Wrote: Interesting that back in the day Singita claimed that the 2,5yo Othawa subadults attacked one of their injured missing father ( probably PB ):

*This image is copyright of its original author

Yeah I saw a video and I will try and find it but the video said that the othawa boys M and T fought their dads many times before being driven out of the west Reply

[Lipstick2]

(10-29-2023, 08:57 AM)KM600 Wrote: Makhulu has to have one of the most impressive manes I’ve ever seen, not only because of the length with it covering part of his back, but the darkness too. The only other non-related lions I can think of with similar manes are prolly the Crater males.

Look around Masai Mara's and Serengeti's males or most of the Southern Kruger's males so we don't go that far from SS...there are/were plenty of male lions with such these conditions or with even far more impressive manes not only from the Crater. My favourite examples were the Notches or the 4'km males - close to the Mapogo's generations - from MM and they have had faaar longer manes than Makhulu had (let's compare him with Notch2 or Lipstick). 
Makhulu was indeed a quite impressive male, but at most only at the 'local level' as on "international level" he never was an outstanding male, he just exceed among his brothers with his permanent maturity, size and mane and with his conductance/ability to lead and dominating over a large and aggressive coalition and maybe exceed among the males around SS at the time, but for example the Majingi's Othawa son Nguvu also was a far more impressive male from an ex-Mapogo pride (furthermore he was a Mapogo grandson from mother's side). 
Especially compared to Mt.T's always small and immatured mohawk mane who never was a role model for a male lion with this appearance his excellence is indeed quiet noticable.
 
It's not a surprise as their fathers the WSM's also weren't so impressive males but they were a far more successful coalition in siring and bringing up their descendants than their Mapogo sons. Their half-brothers the Rollercoaster males also did not have that typical large manes. 

Finally let's look around at closer areas as well as Timbavati with the Old Skybeds (Matimbas and Skybeds) or the Southern Kruger regions. I think the Old Gomondwanes' (especially by the Shisgangenis), the Old Mazithis' and Old Jocks' bloodlines all resulted more developed maned males from there. Although i have to add that this is more my own opinion probably, because people's judgment about male lions' manes could be go into so subjective. Personally i could never look at the Mapogos as a so impressive and well-developed maned male lions, neither the Majingilanes and nor the Selatis from the time at SS. Probably the Split Rock Males were still the best before them. I think most of the highly good-looking males with well-developed manes are came into SS right after the Mapogo's era by the Matimbas, BB's and Mantimahles. In addition luckily they brought some fresher genes into SS after the overused and finally got tired WSM's bloodline by the Mapogos, Rollercoasters, Golfcourses, Selatis etc which would have slowly carried the risk of inbreeding in the area. Reply

[Ngonya]

(12-09-2023, 06:52 AM)Lipstick2 Wrote: Majingi's Othawa son Nguvu also was a far more impressive male

Not only this Majingi's son but also the Long mane Styx
Styx male by Dawie Jacobs

*This image is copyright of its original author

(12-09-2023, 06:52 AM)Lipstick2 Wrote: BB's

The only BBoy with a more impressive mane than Makhulu, or even Dreadlock/Scar and their Rolleroaster half brothers is Nsuku, who wasn't a big lion, probably smaller than all of the Mapogo/Rollercoaster imo.
Rollercoaster males by Joe

*This image is copyright of its original author

Makhulu by original author

*This image is copyright of its original author

*This image is copyright of its original author

Dreadlock by original author

*This image is copyright of its original author

Nsuku by original author

*This image is copyright of its original author

Being honest, i believe that the mane of the three biggest Selatis and the two biggest Majingis were more or as impressive as that of most of the Birmingham Boys (apart from Nsuku)
The three bigger Selati brothers by Francois Fourie (if not bigger manes, they were surely darker)

*This image is copyright of its original author

Selati #1 by Ryan Johnston

*This image is copyright of its original author

*This image is copyright of its original author

Scar Nose Majingilane (most impressive mane out of his 4 brothers) by original author

*This image is copyright of its original author

we are talking about manes right? Reply

[KM600]

(12-09-2023, 08:09 AM)Ngonya Wrote:

(12-09-2023, 06:52 AM)Lipstick2 Wrote: Majingi's Othawa son Nguvu also was a far more impressive male

Not only this Majingi's son but also the Long mane Styx
Styx male by Dawie Jacobs

*This image is copyright of its original author

(12-09-2023, 06:52 AM)Lipstick2 Wrote: BB's

The only BBoy with a more impressive mane than Makhulu, or even Dreadlock/Scar and their Rolleroaster half brothers is Nsuku, who wasn't a big lion, probably smaller than all of the Mapogo/Rollercoaster imo.
Rollercoaster males by Joe

*This image is copyright of its original author

Makhulu by original author

*This image is copyright of its original author

*This image is copyright of its original author

Dreadlock by original author

*This image is copyright of its original author

Nsuku by original author

*This image is copyright of its original author

Being honest, i believe that the mane of the three biggest Selatis and the two biggest Majingis were more or as impressive as that of most of the Birmingham Boys (apart from Nsuku)
The three bigger Selati brothers by Francois Fourie (if not bigger manes, they were surely darker)

*This image is copyright of its original author

Selati #1 by Ryan Johnston

*This image is copyright of its original author

*This image is copyright of its original author

Scar Nose Majingilane (most impressive mane out of his 4 brothers) by original author

*This image is copyright of its original author

we are talking about manes right?

That is some mane on Selati 1 and the Rollercoasters. Makhulu’s mane looked quite short on the top but extremely thick round the side of the head and obviously stretching down from his jaw to chest too. Reply

[Ttimemarti]

Wait wait I don’t think any lion had a darker mane than makhuku literally saw a photo of him and his entire mane was just about black I believe when he was older and males that have big manes usually mean they haven’t done much fighting look at the othawa male his mane was beautiful and huge he didn’t fight anyone until he was killed RIP king othawa Most of the time Reply

[KM600]

(12-09-2023, 10:19 AM)Ttimemarti Wrote: Wait wait I don’t think any lion had a darker mane than makhuku literally saw a photo of him and his entire mane was just about black I believe when he was older and males that have big manes usually mean they haven’t done much fighting look at the othawa male his mane was beautiful and huge he didn’t fight anyone until he was killed RIP king othawa Most of the time

Even in the above photos his mane is quite dark but they tend to get even darker as they age hence Makhulu’s mane looking that dark when he was around 13. The size of the mane seems to be just solely genetics based, they usually test how active a fighter lions are by their wounds, more damage to their face specifically means they’ve been in more fights hence the names that come around like Pretty Boy or Scar and so on. There’s definitely been males with manes just as dark either in KNP such as the older male accompanying the elder Kambula males or even Dark Mane Fourways from just what I’ve seen but no doubt there’s way more all over Africa. Reply

[KM600]

Shame all Mapogos were never weighed cos I’ve always thought were Makhulu and Dreadlocks considered to be that big cos they really were that much bigger than Mr T and Kinky Tail, who were more of an average size or were they considered big cos the two youngest were quite small. Essentially how would they compare to the lions of Sabi Sand of recent. Reply

[Lipstick2]

(12-09-2023, 10:19 AM)Ttimemarti Wrote: Wait wait I don’t think any lion had a darker mane than makhuku literally saw a photo of him and his entire mane was just about black I believe when he was older and males that have big manes usually mean they haven’t done much fighting look at the othawa male his mane was beautiful and huge he didn’t fight anyone until he was killed RIP king othawa Most of the time

Have you ever heard about the former Matshapiri males and their descendants (Fourways males)? 
I think no, because they had/have much more darker manes than any Mapogos or their relatives (all of the WSM's descendants) have ever had (including Majingis, Matimbas, Mantimahles, BBs and so on).

Do we discuss about only SS's lions? Because look around Masai Mara (4'km males for example) and Serengeti (for example Jua Kali Boys) and you can find far more males with far much darker manes...In fact, most of the males from these places have/had blacker manes.


Or did u hear about Nyamakunze as one of SS's most famous male lion from the good old days in the '70s? His other name was Big Black and not accidentally...he was one of the most famous attraction at the time all over SS and I still have never seen any other male lion with such blackish mane from here (or at most the Matshapiris as it was discussed).

*This image is copyright of its original author

Let's compare him with any other photos of Makhulu or any other male lions who ever been in SS...

And it's just from here, if we would go further up on the map in Africa we also could find many more other males with much darker manes for example from Botswana, Tanzania and Kenya as i said. Reply

[Lipstick2]

(12-09-2023, 08:09 AM)Ngonya Wrote: Not only this Majingi's son but also the Long mane Styx

Indeed, the later S26 males.

(12-09-2023, 08:09 AM)Ngonya Wrote: The only BBoy with a more impressive mane than Makhulu, or even Dreadlock/Scar and their Rolleroaster half brothers is Nsuku, who wasn't a big lion, probably smaller than all of the Mapogo/Rollercoaster imo.

According to rangers and any other observers from the time (in mid 2010s) all of the Birmingham Boys were bigger than any other male lions in SS up to that point - except the Matimbas naturally (and remember this was before the Mantimahles' coming). Even Nsuku who was the smallest among the 5 Birminghams. At this point no mention about the the Rollercoaster males as they were already nowhere when the BB's has appeared, but indeed they always seemed to me a bit larger males compared to any other of the WSM's descendants, definitely they could be slightly bigger than their Mapogo half-brothers (but couldn't be bigger than BB's either) i think.

But this topic comes up again and again on this forum and i don't want to get into it...i'm just saying what i've heard/read from reliable sources (rangers) at the time, that's all. And at this point i would like to close this "size debate" for my part.

Back to the mane topic, Mfumo and Nhenha also had impressive manes in their peak times. Sadly Mfumo has disappeared right at the time in his prime so we didn't get to see him to grow an old male lion, but imo he was the most impressive among the boys until then.

Btw at this point you've just inserted such a picture on which Dreadlock's mane is very short and so small... And even both of the Rollercoasters have quite bigger manes than even Makhulu has. So these pictures definitely don't support your argument. :)
And look on Nsuku, his mane is much longer than any other male's in these pictures (being Mapogos, Majingis, Selatis or anyone else).

(12-09-2023, 08:09 AM)Ngonya Wrote: we are talking about manes right?

Yeah, KM600 was impressed by Makhulu's mane size (length), coverage and also by his darkness, so this is why we're talking only about their manes and not about body sizes. And he compared him to the Crater males' manes. At this point, i would have liked to refutes him in it, as Makhulu didn't have the most impressive mane by far. And especially he cannot be compared with the Crater males.

*This image is copyright of its original author

Here is a current off Crater (Lake Quintet) male by Charnita Kirby, do you see the features of Makhulu at him? I don't at all. Reply

[Ttimemarti]

(12-09-2023, 01:21 PM)Lipstick2 Wrote:

(12-09-2023, 08:09 AM)Ngonya Wrote: Not only this Majingi's son but also the Long mane Styx

Indeed, the later S26 males.

(12-09-2023, 08:09 AM)Ngonya Wrote: The only BBoy with a more impressive mane than Makhulu, or even Dreadlock/Scar and their Rolleroaster half brothers is Nsuku, who wasn't a big lion, probably smaller than all of the Mapogo/Rollercoaster imo.

According to rangers and any other observers from the time (in mid 2010s) all of the Birmingham Boys were bigger than any other male lions in SS up to that point - except the Matimbas naturally (and remember this was before the Mantimahles' coming). Even Nsuku who was the smallest among the 5 Birminghams. At this point no mention about the the Rollercoaster males as they were already nowhere when the BB's has appeared, but indeed they always seemed to me a bit larger males compared to any other of the WSM's descendants, definitely they could be slightly bigger than their Mapogo half-brothers (but couldn't be bigger than BB's either) i think.

But this topic comes up again and again on this forum and i don't want to get into it...i'm just saying what i've heard/read from reliable sources (rangers) at the time, that's all. And at this point i would like to close this "size debate" for my part.

Back to the mane topic, Mfumo and Nhenha also had impressive manes in their peak times. Sadly Mfumo has disappeared right at the time in his prime so we didn't get to see him to grow an old male lion, but imo he was the most impressive among the boys until then.

Btw at this point you've just inserted such a picture on which Dreadlock's mane is very short and so small... And even both of the Rollercoasters have quite bigger manes than even Makhulu has. So these pictures definitely don't support your argument. :)
And look on Nsuku, his mane is much longer than any other male's in these pictures (being Mapogos, Majingis, Selatis or anyone else).

(12-09-2023, 08:09 AM)Ngonya Wrote: we are talking about manes right?

Yeah, KM600 was impressed by Makhulu's mane size (length), coverage and also by his darkness, so this is why we're talking only about their manes and not about body sizes. And he compared him to the Crater males' manes. At this point, i would have liked to refutes him in it, as Makhulu didn't have the most impressive mane by far. And especially he cannot be compared with the Crater males.

*This image is copyright of its original author

Here is a current off Crater (Lake Quintet) male by Charnita Kirby, do you see the features of Makhulu in him? I don't at all.

I have no idea where this lion lives but it reminds me of lions manes in zoos untouched this just looks like he hasn’t been in a fight impressive mane but… Reply

[Ttimemarti]

(12-09-2023, 11:57 AM)Lipstick2 Wrote:

(12-09-2023, 10:19 AM)Ttimemarti Wrote: Wait wait I don’t think any lion had a darker mane than makhuku literally saw a photo of him and his entire mane was just about black I believe when he was older and males that have big manes usually mean they haven’t done much fighting look at the othawa male his mane was beautiful and huge he didn’t fight anyone until he was killed RIP king othawa Most of the time

Have you ever heard about the former Matshapiri males and their descendants (Fourways males)? 
I think no, because they had/have much more darker manes than any Mapogos or their relatives (all of the WSM's descendants) have ever had (including Majingis, Matimbas, Mantimahles, BBs and so on).

Do we discuss about only SS's lions? Because look around Masai Mara (4'km males for example) and Serengeti (for example Jua Kali Boys) and you can find far more males with far much darker manes...In fact, most of the males from these places have/had blacker manes.


Or did u hear about Nyamakunze as one of SS's most famous male lion from the good old days in the '70s? His other name was Big Black and not accidentally...he was one of the most famous attraction at the time all over SS and I still have never seen any other male lion with such blackish mane from here (or at most the Matshapiris as it was discussed).

*This image is copyright of its original author

Let's compare him with any other photos of Makhulu or any other male lions who ever been in SS...

And it's just from here, if we would go further up on the map in Africa we also could find many more other males with much darker manes for example from Botswana, Tanzania and Kenya as i said.

You think wrong. Reply

[Lipstick2]

(12-09-2023, 01:52 PM)Ttimemarti Wrote: I have no idea where this lion lives

As i said, Ngorongoro Crater in Tanzania. 
There are five such looking males in this Lake Quintet coalition and most of the males are looking like this because of rich food source.

(12-09-2023, 01:52 PM)Ttimemarti Wrote: reminds me of lions manes in zoos untouched this just looks like he hasn’t been in a fight impressive mane

There is no correlation between them, a battle-trained male lion could also be handsome and very good looking with long and thick mane, and at once a fully stress-free living male lion also could have a short and grow thinner mane. It depends on the genes and nutrient sources, the availability of foods primarily. Reply

[KM600]

(12-09-2023, 01:21 PM)Lipstick2 Wrote:

(12-09-2023, 08:09 AM)Ngonya Wrote: Not only this Majingi's son but also the Long mane Styx

Indeed, the later S26 males.

(12-09-2023, 08:09 AM)Ngonya Wrote: The only BBoy with a more impressive mane than Makhulu, or even Dreadlock/Scar and their Rolleroaster half brothers is Nsuku, who wasn't a big lion, probably smaller than all of the Mapogo/Rollercoaster imo.

According to rangers and any other observers from the time (in mid 2010s) all of the Birmingham Boys were bigger than any other male lions in SS up to that point - except the Matimbas naturally (and remember this was before the Mantimahles' coming). Even Nsuku who was the smallest among the 5 Birminghams. At this point no mention about the the Rollercoaster males as they were already nowhere when the BB's has appeared, but indeed they always seemed to me a bit larger males compared to any other of the WSM's descendants, definitely they could be slightly bigger than their Mapogo half-brothers (but couldn't be bigger than BB's either) i think.

But this topic comes up again and again on this forum and i don't want to get into it...i'm just saying what i've heard/read from reliable sources (rangers) at the time, that's all. And at this point i would like to close this "size debate" for my part.

Back to the mane topic, Mfumo and Nhenha also had impressive manes in their peak times. Sadly Mfumo has disappeared right at the time in his prime so we didn't get to see him to grow an old male lion, but imo he was the most impressive among the boys until then.

Btw at this point you've just inserted such a picture on which Dreadlock's mane is very short and so small... And even both of the Rollercoasters have quite bigger manes than even Makhulu has. So these pictures definitely don't support your argument. :)
And look on Nsuku, his mane is much longer than any other male's in these pictures (being Mapogos, Majingis, Selatis or anyone else).

(12-09-2023, 08:09 AM)Ngonya Wrote: we are talking about manes right?

Yeah, KM600 was impressed by Makhulu's mane size (length), coverage and also by his darkness, so this is why we're talking only about their manes and not about body sizes. And he compared him to the Crater males' manes. At this point, i would have liked to refutes him in it, as Makhulu didn't have the most impressive mane by far. And especially he cannot be compared with the Crater males.

*This image is copyright of its original author

Here is a current off Crater (Lake Quintet) male by Charnita Kirby, do you see the features of Makhulu in him? I don't at all.

When I said that I was more talking about the darkness, everyone knows u can’t really compare length of manes from the crater lions to those of Sabi Sand. He did have a quite a thick mane on his back but obviously nowhere near the level of Crater males, I prolly should have cleared that up. Reply