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The Mighty Mapogos
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 (05-20-2021, 01:34 AM)BA0701 Wrote:(05-19-2021, 08:55 PM)Potato Wrote:(05-19-2021, 06:13 AM)Mauro Wrote: In the documentary brothers in blood they show several fights, how many of them are really the mapogo who come out there? I mean the ones they show apart from the fight against the Majingilanes. Idk which take over you are talking about. What it comes to Majingilanes then their takeover was already made when they killed KT. Western Mapogos were contend in western sector and would rather not contest Majingilanes taking central Sabi Sands. If you talk abou Salati's takeover then obviously Mapogos lands would be much harder to contest if Rasta and/or Dreadlocks would be around. Probably in such case Salatis would just dodge Mapogos and would try to takeover other, easier piece of land to the south or to the east from Sabi Sands.  (05-20-2021, 02:06 AM)Potato Wrote:(05-20-2021, 01:34 AM)BA0701 Wrote:(05-19-2021, 08:55 PM)Potato Wrote:(05-19-2021, 06:13 AM)Mauro Wrote: In the documentary brothers in blood they show several fights, how many of them are really the mapogo who come out there? I mean the ones they show apart from the fight against the Majingilanes. The takeover in the video you just posted, when T took control of the pride from Mak and PB. Although brothers, and coalition members, that was their pride before he fought them, and began killing all their cubs. (05-20-2021, 02:51 AM)BA0701 Wrote:(05-20-2021, 02:06 AM)Potato Wrote:(05-20-2021, 01:34 AM)BA0701 Wrote:(05-19-2021, 08:55 PM)Potato Wrote:(05-19-2021, 06:13 AM)Mauro Wrote: In the documentary brothers in blood they show several fights, how many of them are really the mapogo who come out there? I mean the ones they show apart from the fight against the Majingilanes. They were single coalition and so they controlled their territory and prides together. When this video was made the cubs in the pride were already killed off by Mr T. Pride lionesses came back in oestrus and the Mapogos were fighting each others for mating right - for who gets the female first. (05-20-2021, 04:20 AM)Potato Wrote:(05-20-2021, 02:51 AM)BA0701 Wrote:(05-20-2021, 02:06 AM)Potato Wrote:(05-20-2021, 01:34 AM)BA0701 Wrote:(05-19-2021, 08:55 PM)Potato Wrote:(05-19-2021, 06:13 AM)Mauro Wrote: In the documentary brothers in blood they show several fights, how many of them are really the mapogo who come out there? I mean the ones they show apart from the fight against the Majingilanes. They may have become a single coalition, once again, following the death of KT, and though the Mlowathis and the Mapogos may have met up on occasion, they were not at that time breeding with each others females, they were behaving in that sense as two separate coalitions. That is, of course, until T returned and was welcomed back into the fold, but it wasn't until after this fight that he became the dominant male. Perhaps the killing of the cubs was a sign that decision had been made for the most part, but it wasn't until after this fight that it was clear. That's what I meant by takeover, which was a poor choice of words on my part, but was referring to T becoming the dominant male of the bunch. Mak and PB, or any of the others for that matter, would have walked into Mlowathi territory and began mating with their lionesses, not without a similar battle taking place. Point I was making was that I do not believe T becomes the dominant male if Dreadlocks or Rasta were still alive. However, we could go on with the would of, could of, should of, line of thinking until the cows come home, when it comes to this particular coalition. It seems some sites and pages are often dedicated to near constant conversations regarding what may have happened if Mapogo *A* didn't die, or perhaps Mapogo *B* did die, all questions we will obviously never know the answers to, and here, sadly, I find myself contributing to the exact same conversation. The bottom line, for as much territory, and as many prides as they controlled, they were not very successful at creating a lasting legacy. There are many single males, not to mention the many coalitions who were also far more successful, that have actually contributed more to future generations than these guys did, and the Mapogos are my favorite coalition simply for the fact they they were the impetus behind my interest in lions to begin with. Part of that can be attributed to T's rampage, but certainly not all of it, not even close.  (05-20-2021, 05:16 AM)BA0701 Wrote: They may have become a single coalition, once again, following the death of KT, and though the Mlowathis and the Mapogos may have met up on occasion, they were not at that time breeding with each others females, they were behaving in that sense as two separate coalitions. That is, of course, until T returned and was welcomed back into the fold, but it wasn't until after this fight that he became the dominant male. Perhaps the killing of the cubs was a sign that decision had been made for the most part, but it wasn't until after this fight that it was clear. That's what I meant by takeover, which was a poor choice of words on my part, but was referring to T becoming the dominant male of the bunch. Mak and PB, or any of the others for that matter, would have walked into Mlowathi territory and began mating with their lionesses, not without a similar battle taking place. Point I was making was that I do not believe T becomes the dominant male if Dreadlocks or Rasta were still alive.I don't know, if we can say that M. T was really dominant. In the video above, we can see PB fighting with him without evidence of domination until the end of the fight. Only then did Mr T show a more assertive desire to impose himself and PB gave up. It is a skirmish between lions of the same coalition, like there are so many others, without really allowing to draw an absolute conclusion, on the relations of dominance between the males. Mr. T may have had the last word this time. Nor can one argue based on the fact that the cubs were killed by M.T, since the exact circumstances of this are not formally known, as far as I understand. In the end, one can just consider that, as is the case in most coalitions of male lions, the dominance of one of the individuals over the others is circumstantial in itself and of variable geometry. In the specific case of the Mapogos, the presence of Dreadlocks or Rasta might not have changed anything or everything, I can't say, no one can. The final opinion that one can have on the reality of the dominance of one of these males over the others, perhaps depends mainly on what one personally wishes to see there. Myself, I am attached to the legend of the Mapogos with a big boss Mak and a bad boy Mr. T. Is this true for all that or not? It's not objective, and it never will be for anyone, but that's fine with me. (05-20-2021, 11:51 AM)Thierry Wrote:(05-20-2021, 05:16 AM)BA0701 Wrote: They may have become a single coalition, once again, following the death of KT, and though the Mlowathis and the Mapogos may have met up on occasion, they were not at that time breeding with each others females, they were behaving in that sense as two separate coalitions. That is, of course, until T returned and was welcomed back into the fold, but it wasn't until after this fight that he became the dominant male. Perhaps the killing of the cubs was a sign that decision had been made for the most part, but it wasn't until after this fight that it was clear. That's what I meant by takeover, which was a poor choice of words on my part, but was referring to T becoming the dominant male of the bunch. Mak and PB, or any of the others for that matter, would have walked into Mlowathi territory and began mating with their lionesses, not without a similar battle taking place. Point I was making was that I do not believe T becomes the dominant male if Dreadlocks or Rasta were still alive.I don't know, if we can say that M. T was really dominant. In the video above, we can see PB fighting with him without evidence of domination until the end of the fight. Great points, @Thierry, all of them. Especially the line "I can't say, no one can", which is something I have been saying for a long time, and in fact had said in my post above yours, which is to say that when following a subject as fluid, one for which so little is truly understood, speculation and conjecture are a natural part of the discussion. It seems none more so, than when it comes to the subject of this storied, and some might say infamous, coalition. I find the fact very interesting, that so much is discussed, to this day, about this coalition, often far more than other more successful coalitions. A lot of that could be due to the movie, but to that I'd argue that Savage Kingdom has likely been viewed by many more people, and we barely hear a word about Sekekama. Personally I think most of the interest is a result of how this particular group has been portrayed, but even those behaviors we found so different and interesting, when we look further they are the same behaviors exhibited by so many others, and are not in fact the product of an "unnatural" group of lions, to quote a line from the movie.  (05-20-2021, 11:51 AM)Thierry Wrote:(05-20-2021, 05:16 AM)BA0701 Wrote: They may have become a single coalition, once again, following the death of KT, and though the Mlowathis and the Mapogos may have met up on occasion, they were not at that time breeding with each others females, they were behaving in that sense as two separate coalitions. That is, of course, until T returned and was welcomed back into the fold, but it wasn't until after this fight that he became the dominant male. Perhaps the killing of the cubs was a sign that decision had been made for the most part, but it wasn't until after this fight that it was clear. That's what I meant by takeover, which was a poor choice of words on my part, but was referring to T becoming the dominant male of the bunch. Mak and PB, or any of the others for that matter, would have walked into Mlowathi territory and began mating with their lionesses, not without a similar battle taking place. Point I was making was that I do not believe T becomes the dominant male if Dreadlocks or Rasta were still alive.I don't know, if we can say that M. T was really dominant. In the video above, we can see PB fighting with him without evidence of domination until the end of the fight. hello just to tell you the result ... the fight was for lioness and dave pusey recorded that fight and he clearly said Mr.T first chased off makhulu and after that fought with bent spine and took the lioness ,bent spine was defeated and didnt want another round with Mr.T
MAPOGO COALITION
DATED: SEPTEMBER 1, 2011 GREG COATES REPORT http://www.mrtmapogo.com/2021/05/25/mapogo-males-and-ottawa-pride-september-1-2011-g-coates-report/ (05-23-2021, 03:21 PM)fursan syed Wrote:(05-20-2021, 11:51 AM)Thierry Wrote:(05-20-2021, 05:16 AM)BA0701 Wrote: They may have become a single coalition, once again, following the death of KT, and though the Mlowathis and the Mapogos may have met up on occasion, they were not at that time breeding with each others females, they were behaving in that sense as two separate coalitions. That is, of course, until T returned and was welcomed back into the fold, but it wasn't until after this fight that he became the dominant male. Perhaps the killing of the cubs was a sign that decision had been made for the most part, but it wasn't until after this fight that it was clear. That's what I meant by takeover, which was a poor choice of words on my part, but was referring to T becoming the dominant male of the bunch. Mak and PB, or any of the others for that matter, would have walked into Mlowathi territory and began mating with their lionesses, not without a similar battle taking place. Point I was making was that I do not believe T becomes the dominant male if Dreadlocks or Rasta were still alive.I don't know, if we can say that M. T was really dominant. In the video above, we can see PB fighting with him without evidence of domination until the end of the fight. Makhulu avoids fighting because of his old age maybe that's why he runs away, then I don't see Mr t defeat Pretty boy, in fact the one who is lame is him. These dominations of Mr t is because he dared to try to dominate with the disappearance of Dreadlocks, when Dreadlocks was alive this was the leader and Mr t never dared to challenge him. (05-27-2021, 09:53 AM)Mauro Wrote: Makhulu avoids fighting because of his old age maybe that's why he runs away, then I don't see Mr t defeat Pretty boy, in fact the one who is lame is him.Said on base of what? Can you back up this claim with any source? It is rather mysterious how high in order of dominance between Mapogos was Dreadlocks. As far as I know there are no sources showing him fighting his brothers for mating rights so we can pretty much just be guessing on base of his size, but that is not enough to state as a fact that he was more dominant than Mr T . (05-27-2021, 11:56 AM)Potato Wrote:(05-27-2021, 09:53 AM)Mauro Wrote: Makhulu avoids fighting because of his old age maybe that's why he runs away, then I don't see Mr t defeat Pretty boy, in fact the one who is lame is him.Said on base of what? Can you back up this claim with any source? It is rather mysterious how high in order of dominance between Mapogos was Dreadlocks. As far as I know there are no sources showing him fighting his brothers for mating rights so we can pretty much just be guessing on base of his size, but that is not enough to state as a fact that he was more dominant than Mr T . There are reports here in the forum and responses from some rangers on YouTube where it is said that Dreadlocks 1 or 2 years before his disappearance had begun to dominate Makhulu, there are videos where he is the first to eat buffalo hunting, there are videos where He goes out patrolling with Mr T and Pretty boy when Rasta had already disappeared and in the video it is clearly seen that he is the dominant one over his brothers Mr T and PB, since it is Dreadlocks who guides the patrol. This is not something that I say, in fact in this same topic in the first pages it is said that in 2009 onwards Dreadlocks had begun to dominate Makhulu. And clearly there are no fights of him with his brothers because they did not dare to mess with him, for something he is the one who most mated with Makhulu.
Video of Dreadlocks, Pretty boy and Mr T patrolling, where it is clearly seen who was the leader at that time. That was in 2010 when Rasta had already disappeared.
(05-27-2021, 01:22 PM)Mauro Wrote: There are reports here in the forum and responses from some rangers on YouTube where it is said that Dreadlocks 1 or 2 years before his disappearance had begun to dominate MakhuluI know some random people are saying such thinks. I did not ever encountered such claim from any reliable source like loge or guide. (05-27-2021, 01:22 PM)Mauro Wrote: there are videos where he is the first to eat buffalo hunting, there are videos where He goes out patrolling with Mr T and Pretty boy when Rasta had already disappeared and in the video it is clearly seen that he is the dominant one over his brothers Mr T and PB, since it is Dreadlocks who guides the patrol. This thinks means nothink at all. That who leads patrol is fully random. That who eats first mostly comes to who gets to the kill first. If Dreadlocks would chasse off his brothers from a kill, he would take it from them, that would mean somethink, but as far as I know no such think was ever recorded. (05-27-2021, 01:22 PM)Mauro Wrote: This is not something that I say, in fact in this same topic in the first pages it is said that in 2009 onwards Dreadlocks had begun to dominate Makhulu. As i said above, the key is from who those words came from. (05-27-2021, 01:22 PM)Mauro Wrote: And clearly there are no fights of him with his brothers because they did not dare to mess with him, for something he is the one who most mated with Makhulu.This is just your speculation, not a fact.
MAPOGO COALITION
DATED: OCTOBER 27, 2011 GREG COATES REPORT http://www.mrtmapogo.com/2021/06/03/mapogo-males-and-ottawa-pride-october-27-2011-g-coates-report/
I just was reading again the topic and saw that Gjima males was included in the list of males who Mapogo defeated.. Any report of that ?
And who was the 2 Nkuhuma males who fight with Othawa m & t ? Sons of Dozie & Blondie but what whappend to them ? |
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