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The Java Tiger (Panthera tigris sondaica)
The Java Tiger (Panthera tigris sondaica)
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The Java Tiger (Panthera tigris sondaica)
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@GuateGojira and @GrizzlyClaws , i dont understand dutch either. but if you want to see it's previews, go right here : https://auction.catawiki.com/kavels/1716...angen-1920
Peter surely able to help you guys Thank you @tigerluver , yup, im pretty sure that tiger was a very young and your explanation confirm it. and guess what, i've found another picture of him.  *This image is copyright of its original author this picture of young javan tigers was taken from zoologischer garten (zoological garden), Koln, Germany by the same photographer A. J. W. de Veer. The tiger from my previous post is the one on the left. they looks so very young wasnt they? just one year old maybe? It's interesting to note that they already posses longer hair around their cheeks. The photographer A. J. W. de Veer also took a picture of and adult male javan tiger from the same zoo. probably the father of the two young tigers above.  *This image is copyright of its original author now look at "his mane". seems like javan tiger able to grow very long hair cheeks if the live in the cold country. hello @peter, yes its been a while my friend. just curious, you said "One of the few who was different is the one who wrote a book about the Javan tiger." what do you mean? please enlighten us and btw i don't know if this has been posted before but i also found two pictures of berberlowe (barbary lion isn't it?) from the same zoo.  *This image is copyright of its original author  *This image is copyright of its original author you can put it on the lion thread if you like peter 
I read thread in wild fact in 2017 say javan tiger more robust than siberian tiger..
Recently i came across an article written by Nico J. van Strien. "The impact of the Krakatoa eruption in 1883 on the population of Rhinoceros sondaicus in Ujung Kulon, with details of rhino observations from 1857 to 1949".
Nico van Strien (1 April 1946 – 7 February 2008) was a well-known biologist interested in the birds and mammals of Africa and South-East Asia. some interesting note from this article regarding javan tiger : .....On 19 January 1752, the Swedish chaplain and amateur naturalist Pehr Osbeck (1723-1805), who attended lectures by Linnaeus in Uppsala, anchored in Meeuwenbaai (Mew Bay, West Java) on his return from China. He recorded that it was hazardous to reach the shore due to the abundance of corals. Walking from the beach inland, he found the forest very thick, wet, and dangerous due to the abundance of tigers and other carnivores (Osbeck 1765: 352-353)..... .....Sijfert Hendrik Koorders (1863-1919) was the first president of the “Nederlandsch Indische Vereeninging voor Natuurbescherming” (Society for Nature Conservation in the Dutch East Indies) founded in 1912. He visited Ujung Kulon from 25 June to 6 August 1892 and mentioned that the peninsula was covered with primary forest and was uninhabited, except for the area around the First Point. He encountered fresh spoor of rhino, besides many deer, tigers and banteng (Koorders 1916)..... well i have no doubt that tigers and other animals were still plentiful those day. What interests me most about the high number of tigers is that there were ‘a plague of tigers’ happened back then. .....About 20 years later, Veth (1875: 247) stated that Rumah Tigah in the bay behind Pulau Peutjang was then the only settlement in Ujung Kulon. According to Kal (1910: 139), the village of Djoengkoelon (Djungkulon) opposite Meeuweneiland, with about 40 houses, had been devastated during the eruption, but people had returned there afterwards, only to leave permanently due to a plague of tigers. Similarly, Halewijn (1933) mentioned that the village of some 500 people which existed near the mouth of the Tji Boenar (Tji Bunar) had been abandoned in 1906 due to a plague of tigers..... if it’s all about tiger preying on their livestock, they wouldn't abandoned their village, seems like it’s about human-tiger conflict. @peter, i wonder if you have data of the human-tiger conflicts in Java? Some Javan Tigers stuff i have gathered Woman with Javan tiger head 1935  *This image is copyright of its original author A Paper Animal Kingdom from Special Collections of the University of Amsterdam, 1862-1876  *This image is copyright of its original author Paiting by Raden Sarief Bustaman Saleh - Fight between a Javanese rhinoceros and two tigers  *This image is copyright of its original author portrait of a Javan tigress  *This image is copyright of its original author This Javan tiger relief coin confirms my suspection that this species (java-bali) don’t have prominent abdominal flap unlike their sumatran cousin  *This image is copyright of its original author collection of the Royal Institute of Linguistics and Anthropology in Leiden  *This image is copyright of its original author illustration from 1841(?) not so sure about it  *This image is copyright of its original author Some illustrations made by Robert Bret Simmer (cmiiw). I think his works is amazing, it has very fine detail and the subjects looks very much alive.  *This image is copyright of its original author  *This image is copyright of its original author  *This image is copyright of its original author fyi thats a Banteng gaur, not wild water buffalo An illustration of a battle between a slave and a Tiger that was published by Le Monde Illustre in 1862. Le Monde Illustre is a Parisian leading newspaper company in the 19thCentury  *This image is copyright of its original author  *This image is copyright of its original author  *This image is copyright of its original author  *This image is copyright of its original author  *This image is copyright of its original author  *This image is copyright of its original author a Dutch and locals accidentally came accross javan tigress with her two cubs  *This image is copyright of its original author Local painting depicting tiger find it's way to a man outside the temple (probably Bali)  *This image is copyright of its original author Another local painting  *This image is copyright of its original author And this is my favorite, Tigers at a Temple Stairs in Moonlight, Oil Painting by Herman van den Poll, 1929.  *This image is copyright of its original author Probablably this painting based from his own observation back then, we will never know. But i like it so much, it has that kind of vibe that I can't explain. They are the tigers who often appearing in my dreams. Landscape of Java by Abraham Salm 1872  *This image is copyright of its original author credit to Andrian Siagian http://squaresolid.tumblr.com/  (01-16-2019, 07:45 PM)phatio Wrote: Recently i came across an article written by Nico J. van Strien. "The impact of the Krakatoa eruption in 1883 on the population of Rhinoceros sondaicus in Ujung Kulon, with details of rhino observations from 1857 to 1949". PHATIO I decided to copy your long post. This will enable you to scroll up and down while reading. Not ideal, but better than moving from one post to another all the time. As for this post. I selected a few parts of your post and will answer from the top down. 1 - Past Before answering questions, a few words on the past do not seem out of place. You know the Dutch were in Indonesia for a long time. They started in Batavia, now Jakarta. From the beginning, they kept records. Quite a few of these made it to today. Most are kept in Jakarta ('Arsip Nasional'), The Hague ('Algemeen Rijksarchief'), Amsterdam ('Koninklijk Instituut voor de Tropen') and Leiden ('Koninklijk Instituut voor Taal-, Land- en Volkenkunde'). If you want to know about tigers and humans in Java, Sumatra and Bali, buy the book of Peter Boomgaard: 'Frontiers of Fear - Tigers and People in the Malay World, 1600-1950'. It was published in 2001:  *This image is copyright of its original author The book is a must for those interested in interactions between humans and tigers in the period 1600-1950. The reason is it is based on records only. Boomgaard is not a biologist, but a historian. In my opinion, his lack of knowledge in the department of biology is an advantage for readers. It took Boomgaard more than ten years to write the book (...). Chances are it won't be repeated. One reason is a part of the collection has been moved. This means someone interested in reading has to travel more often than before. Another is researchers don't have the opportunity to study archives for years anymore. The reason is a new view on science. The new view (time is money and money tops anything) has many consequences. When you want to stand a chance in life, you need to go to a top institute. As it is a costly affair, you need to find a sponsor. Not easy when you're not connected. When you succeed in spite of the odds, you need to graduate as fast as possible. When you want a job at a university, you need to publish. No publications is no job. When you want to specialize, you have to find a sponsor. Firms only invest in research if there's a good chance it will result in specific knowledge. Knowledge that can be applied (turned into money). As money is just about everywhere these days, not a few scientists are heavily involved in business. Archives are a thing of the past, that is. 2 - Tiger abundance and man-eaters on Java Boomgaard says tigers were everywhere when the Dutch entered Java. They troubled the people of Batavia from the start. For this reason, VOC officials organized tiger hunting parties. In 1624, tigers killed about 60 people in Batavia. From 1644 onward, bounties were paid to those who had killed a tiger or leopard. In 1670, tigers were captured in and near Jakarta just about every day. Even in 1748, about 80 big cats (tigers and leopards) were 'destroyed' near Jakarta. In western Java, tigers killed many people as well. Man-eating wasn't a result of a lack of game, but, most probably, opportunism. Near villages, crops were grown. These attracted wild boars. When you say wild boar, you say tiger. Tigers hunt wild boars everywhere in Asia. For this reason, they know wild boars have a great nose. They're also dangerous. Humans are not. Furthermore, they have no sense of smell and easy to catch. Tigers distinguished between Europeans and locals. Europeans, often heavily armed, were not hunted. Locals were. Not adult men, as they often had a dagger, but women and children. Immigrants were also taken, as they often had no experience with tigers. In 1659, a group of Malay woodcutters working in Krawang returned to the Batavia because they had lost 14 men in just two months. Based on what he found, Boomgaard estimated that about 500 people were killed by tigers in the 1820's and about 200 in the 1850's. The sharp decline in the 19th century was a result of deforestation, hunting, less tigers and more people. The growing number of people affected tiger behavior in that they became more active at night. In the period 1820-1860, near Banten, tigers were often seen in broad daylight. In the last decades of the 19th century, they had turned into nocturnal hunters. Although India always topped the table in the department of man-eating in absolutes, Sumatra and Java, considering the number of people on both islands, were relatively much more dangerous: " ... In Java (1870), with a population density ... comparable to that of the British part of India in 1890 and with a much higher rate of population growth, there was a notable shift in the relationship between humans and big cats. Its position c. 1870 in all respects surpassed that of India by an appreciable ... margin. Java had a higher number of deaths by tigers per unit of land and population, higher rations between tigers killed and people killed ..., and higher hunting pressure per unit of land and population. At the end of the century it had moved to a situation in which it scored lower than India ... " (Boomgaard, 2001, pp. 78). Although it topped all tables in relatives in the 1870's, Java scored lower than India in all respects a few decades later. The reason was the response to attacks in Java ('massive retaliation') had been different from the response in India. In 1900, the war between tigers and humans on Java, largely as a result of intense hunting pressure, had been concluded. Tiger 'plagues', however, continued until after World War Two. 3 - Tiger 'plagues' in Java After 1850, the number of people killed by tigers on Java significantly decreased. Every now and then, however, a 'tiger plague' erupted. Most of these had a very local character and a specific cause. In 1855, 147 people were killed in Priangan, twice the annual average for that period. Boomgaard thinks it was a result of a drought. Every time there was a calamity of some sort, the number of deaths sharply increased. As not all bodies were buried, tigers often fed on them. After the supply had dried up, the number of attacks increased. In the period 1875-1880, there were crop failures in Priangan. The result, like in 1855, was a strong increase in the number of man-eaters. The eruption of the Krakatau in 1883 also had a severe effect. It started with the tidal wave. Only few of those who drowned were buried. Not much later, man-eaters appeared in the northwestern part of Java. A year later, rinderpest and malaria resulted in a strong increase in the number of deaths and man-eaters. Although most 'tiger plagues' occurred in densely populated regions in western and central parts of Java, thinly populated regions in the eastern part were hit as well. Residencies affected by 'tiger plagues' at regular intervals were Banten, Priangan, Krawang, Cirebon, Jepara, Pasuruan, Probolinggo and Besuki/Banyuwangi. In general, wild presidencies were less affected by man-eaters than presidencies in which wild country had been cultivated. In wild regions, tigers were able to hunt wild animals as well. In regions affected by cultivation, they were not. Here's a map of Java:  *This image is copyright of its original author The last 'tiger plague' in Java occurred in 1946, when in southern Banyuwangi (southeast Java) 64 people were taken by tigers in 10 months. There's nothing known about the specific circumstances, but just after the Second World War there was a long struggle between the Dutch and those fighting for independence. It resulted in many victims. Boomgaard got to a few interesting conclusions. Here's one of them: " ... Man-eating as a specialized activity ... is probably a modern phenomenon, in Java perhaps not older than the 1870's, where it came into being when the tigers were about to disappear. Earlier sources suggest that the tiger used to be an opportunistic predator who made a 'rational' choice between easy and difficult, unarmed and armed, weak and strong. Modern observers, ..., never knew the tiger before he learned to avoid humans, and conceived the tiger ... as an ahistorical being. Tigers, however, can and do learn. They adapt their behavior to changing circumstances ... " ('Frontiers of fear', 2001, pp. 85-86). In other words: wild tigers in Indonesia were capable of reasoning and adapted their behavior over time. Steven-Hamilton, regarding lions in Kruger, got to similar conclusions. This, to be sure, was in the period that lions were still hunted in Kruger. 4 - The tigress on the banknote The tigress on the Indonesian banknote most probably was an Indian tigress. Here's a photograph from the Dutch version of 'Tiger und Mensch' written by Bengt Berg. It was published during the Second World War (1943) in Amsterdam:  *This image is copyright of its original author And here's the banknote:  *This image is copyright of its original author One more:  *This image is copyright of its original author
Is there agreement now on whether the Javan tiger was larger than the Sumatran tiger?
 (01-20-2019, 10:05 AM)Richardrli Wrote: Is there agreement now on whether the Javan tiger was larger than the Sumatran tiger? Should be very similar in size, but looks quite different to me. Javan tigers seen to have had visual similarities with the mainland tigers, more than the Sumatran ones. But with one critical & another extinct, it doesn't really matter anymore. (01-20-2019, 10:05 AM)Richardrli Wrote: Is there agreement now on whether the Javan tiger was larger than the Sumatran tiger? As I measured enough skulls to get to conclusions, I decided for a few tables a year or two ago. They were not posted. When I finish the other tables, I will post everything I have. Here's a few results. a - In greatest total length, wild male Javan tigers top the table. b - Same in captive males. c - In wild females, there is no significant difference between Java and Sumatra. d - Skulls of captive Sumatran tigresses are longer (greatest total length) than those of captive Javan tigresses. e - Individual variation in Sumatran skulls is more pronounced than in Javan skulls (males and females). f - In greatest total skull length, there are significant differences between young adults and adults. I'm not sure if there's a relation between skull size, body length and mass. There's good info on Sumatra, but Java is an enigma. At the moment, I'm reading books written by naturalists and hunters. I'm also trying to find hunting magazins. I might decide to visit a few institutes in order to find out more.
Thank you for your response peter. I really appreciate you taking your time to write all that.
after reading your post i have no doubt there were human-tiger conflict occurred back then when tigers were still plentiful as Boomgaard reported. Nowadays, many who lives in the fringe of the forest called this great cat as "mbah", meaning grandfather or the one we must respected. they said Javan tiger is a shy animal. when accidentaly met people, the stripped cat shows no sign of aggression, they choose to retreat to the jungle right away, which is a great thing as it's a common behavior of normal tigers. Richardrli Wrote: Wrote:Is there agreement now on whether the Javan tiger was larger than the Sumatran tiger?About javan tiger size, according to Guate, the only known weights of Javanese tigers are from a wild male of 141 kg and a captive one of 110 kg. i guess thats explain how the figure of 110-140 kg range for male javan tiger coming from. but what about the upper limit? lets take a look at this male javan tiger one more time.  *This image is copyright of its original author Mr. Didik Raharyono, Javanese tiger researcher once had the opportunity to interview Mr. Karno, the hunter itself. according to Mr. Karno, this male was shot in 1957 at rubber plantations near Banyuwangi eastern java. this tiger known as cattle-lifter before, after heard this tiger often seen in the plantation area and makes workers afraid to go to work, he decided to hunt this male down by using his rifle. when asked how large this male was, he said as a hunter he had shot 4 other tigers before but this one is the largest. Driven by his curiosity, Mr. karno put this tiger front paw to his face, and it can covered up his face completely. later he point toward his wall clocks to show how large this tiger paw was. this reminds me of dr. Ragu Chundawat when he decribes the size of madla's front paw, as large as dinner plates he said. ofc im not trying to say this male javan tiger as large as madla, a tiger who bottomed out 250 kg scale, but this male definitely weighing more than just 140kg, imo. later Mr. Didik measured the width of the wall clocks, it was at least 20cm wide. but is it really possible for javan tiger to have so large front paw? yes it's suprisingly possible. for example this speciment from Garut west java 1920.  *This image is copyright of its original author his pront paw definiltely comparable to the faces of those javanesse people. back to 1957 male tiger, later Mr. Karno also told mr.Didik that one of the cow's skull was broken due to the imense power this tiger deliver during his attack. today, most of the reports of Javan tiger sightings describes the striped cat as large as or a bit larger than adult goat, however some reports describes them as large as young cow. regarding sumatran tiger, as they are still exist, i'm sure more reliable weight will come up in the future and we will get a better conclusion sooner or later. New Photos now i'd like to share some "new" photos of Javan tigers, please take a good look at them because they're extremely rare 1. Javan tiger shot at Cikepu, Banten, West java, year unknown.  *This image is copyright of its original author 2. Javan Tigress shot with saltwater croc, in Besuki/Situbondo eastern Java 1934.  *This image is copyright of its original author  *This image is copyright of its original author  *This image is copyright of its original author with this additional photos, i've come to conclusion of their stipes pattern. very thin and long with a tight distance, especially in the thighs and surrounding areas. Surprisingly the stripe is only concentrated in the back of the body. Upon reaching the abdomen, the stripes seem to disappear unexpectedly. Half the abdomen to the front looks so plain with a minimal number of stripes. however im still curious to know how the javan tiger from central java look like, i wonder if there are any local variation between them. one more thing, the new tigers above coming from lowland forest, same as the famous 1938 Hoogerwerf's tiger. while the large 1920 and 1957 tigers are coming from mountain/cold region. probably there's size difference between lowland and highland tigers in java as this also happen to their mainland cousin. today, lets hope a small remnant population of javan tigers still left in the most remote jungle, perhaps from the hidden lake of Mount Semeru in the background below.  *This image is copyright of its original author ok i'll leave you with this two great piece of art that will bring us back to 19th-century Java. De Grote Postweg bij Rejapolah (The Great Postal Route near Rejapolah) Tasikmalaya West Java 1828 by Auguste Antoine Joseph Payen, a Belgian painter who was commissioned by Dutch King William I to create a series of paintings of the landscape of the Dutch East Indies.  *This image is copyright of its original author and this one made by Payen's student himself, a Javanese painter Raden Saleh Syarif Bustaman.  *This image is copyright of its original author this kind of jungle is so dense, dark and must be very difficult to penetrate. trust me, I had experienced before. yup, suprisingly as the world's most populous island in the world, Java still have untouched rainforest like this although not as large as Sumatra or Borneo.  (01-20-2019, 10:05 AM)Richardrli Wrote: Is there agreement now on whether the Javan tiger was larger than the Sumatran tiger? My conclustion, based in the skulls measured by Mazák is that Javan tigers are the largest of the Sunda tigers but by a very small margin, with a maximum greatest skull length of 349 mm for Java and 345 mm for Sumatra. The average of Javanese males is 326.3 mm in GSL and for Sumatra is 314.8 mm. Check this comparative image that I made some time ago:  *This image is copyright of its original author Now, regarding measurements and weights, we seriously lack information in the Java/Bali side while there is somewhat more in Sumatra. We nly know two weights for male tigers in Java (141 kg wild and 110 kg captive) and one captive female (95 kg) and that is all. For Sumatra we have more like the previous image shows. The thing is that the information that we have suggest that Java tigers were at top, but Sumatran were very close. In fact, I follow the idea that probably the Javanese tiger was as large as the South China tigers, with weight of about c.166 kg (using wild and captive speciemens) and the picture of the large male hunted by Mr Karno (posted by @"Pathio") suggest that I am correct. However there is a record of a Sumatran male tiger that weighed 185 kg quoted in two sources which suggest that Sunda tigers were bigger than what we think. In 1987 Dr Helmut Hemmer stated that Sunda tigers were "bigger" than mainland tigresses but weighed much less, which meaned that they were less robust. However he based his information in the data of Mazák, which now we know that was incomplete (in relation with the fact that he used only two weights and the information suggest that the specimen of 141 kg with a skull of 331 mm was probably just slightly bigger than the average and not represent a record specimen). So if a tigress with a skull of less than 320 mm can weight over 160 kg, why a full grow male can not weight over that figure? It seems that our modern idea that Sunda tigers were dwarfs is completelly incorrect, and as I have showed, the Bali tiger was not the littly kitty from the small island, but it had a decent size, at least as large as the Pantanal jaguars which had an average of c.100 kg and a maximum of 148 kg empty. I think that this Bali tiger is close to that weight too:  *This image is copyright of its original author This image that I made, regarding the greatest length of the skulls, is very interesting and can help you to draw conclutions too:  *This image is copyright of its original author Please take in count that this comparison excludes the female specimen with a skull of 255 mm because it was a subadult specimen, I don't know why Dr Yamaguchi included in his analysis when Mazák clearly stated that it was a subadult. Just like a side note, and like an interesting fact, the smallest skull from an "adult" specimen measured by Mazák was a Caspian female with a greatest skull length of only 255.5 mm. I think that my conclusions regarding your question, and to complement those from @peter, are: 1 - Javanese tigers had slighly longer skulls than the Sumatran tigers. 2 - In the wild, tigresses from Sumatra are longer in extreme values but smaller in averages, but again, this differences are small. 3 - Java tiger was as big as the South China tiger, based in the size of the skulls and the picutures available. 4 - If weight is somehow related with the size of the skull, the Java tigers were probably heavier with maximum weights calculated between 160-170 kg (using wild and captive tigers).  (02-11-2019, 09:31 PM)GuateGojira Wrote:@GuateGojira(01-20-2019, 10:05 AM)Richardrli Wrote: Is there agreement now on whether the Javan tiger was larger than the Sumatran tiger? Thanks a lot for your valuable information (01-07-2019, 11:34 PM)phatio Wrote: Thank you @tigerluver , yup, im pretty sure that tiger was a very young and your explanation confirm it. another javan tiger picture from the same photographer, A. J. W. de Veer.  *This image is copyright of its original author once again, notice it's "mane" and numerous thin stripes on it's back
here in Java Indonesia, every year there are many unofficial reports of Javan tigers sighting. i'll show you one example :
“ I have seen Javan tigers on Mt. Pegat and forests around the mountain. I saw a tiger playing with her three cubs. Javan tigers are not extinct. They have stripes. There has also been sightings of tigers leaving sugarcane fields, usually in the afternoon,” Mt. Pegat juru kunci (mountain attendant) Suratno, 58, said on Sunday. Sagimin, a resident of Bumiharjo village, claims to have seen a tiger near his house “The body was the size of a calf and it had stripes. During the dry season, tigers usually find water in the river near our kampung. I don’t believe the tigers are extinct. I’ve seen them four times,” Sagimin said. https://www.thejakartapost.com/news/2018/04/01/wonogiri-residents-claim-sightings-of-extinct-javan-tiger.html -------------------------------------------------------- Recently Mr. Didik Raharyono told me that he finally got the picture of a wild javan tiger. yes a wild javan tiger alive! For those who don't know who he is, Didik Raharyono is Javan tiger researcher. since 1997 he started to searching and investigating anything related to javan tiger, all by himself without financial support from any foundation. sometimes he gets what he expected, pugmarks, droppings, claws mark on trees etc. the other day he has to face the reality that his camera traps are gone. but ofc he won't give up. in the TV Show Animal Planet "Extinct or Alive" episode - The Javan Tiger, Forrest Galante, the guy who found the extinct Zanzibar Leopard visiting him for some information and advice. at the end of the show, Galante gives Didik camera trap as a gift. if you havent seen it, you should check this episode, it's very interesting. There's a scene where Galante's drone equipped with Heat Vision Camera Sensors captured a large animal moving through jungle floor at night. Galantes also surprised how Java as world's most populous island still have healthy dense jungle which is more than capable to support the existence of large predator such as javan tiger and leopard. back to javan tiger picture, as time goes by, Didik gained a reputation as the one you should call here in Java if you have any info about javan tiger more than the authority. like i said, every year there are many reports of javan tiger sightings. after checking some reports he had received, Didik often found some of them as false alarm, sometimes the evidence point toward to javan leopard, and only the rest "probably legit". unfortunately he haven't found any pictures or videos yet, except from two small pictures from 2014. in September last year (2018), he received a report of javan tiger sighting with photograph in it. the witness/photographer said he took the photo in the teak forest after fail on multiple attempts before. December 2018 Mr.Didik finally had a chance to validate the accuracy of the report by interviewing the witness and visiting the location of the photo. it is true, he said to me. and here is the photo  *This image is copyright of its original author Judging from the photo Mr. Didik said this is probably an adult female, and interestingly according to witness there are other 4 specimen. how did he know? maybe he had seen all of them together? honestly i don't know. The exact location is still secret as it is outside national park or any other protected area. Didik and the team also had a plan to set camera traps to prove it furthermore. if this photo is true, then you're looking at the second photo of wild javan tiger alive since hoogerwerf's and the first one in coloured photograph. What do you think guys, could it be real javan tiger or not? as much i wanted this is real, i wanted to know the truth, so your honest opinion is highly appreciated. 
This could be real. though the striping looks more like a mainland tiger .
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