There is a world somewhere between reality and fiction. Although ignored by many, it is very real and so are those living in it. This forum is about the natural world. Here, wild animals will be heard and respected. The forum offers a glimpse into an unknown world as well as a room with a view on the present and the future. Anyone able to speak on behalf of those living in the emerald forest and the deep blue sea is invited to join.
04-28-2019, 12:10 AM( This post was last modified: 04-28-2019, 12:45 AM by Pckts )
(04-27-2019, 11:54 PM)Pckts Wrote:
(04-27-2019, 03:42 PM)Luipaard Wrote:
(04-27-2019, 02:22 PM)Pckts Wrote:
(04-27-2019, 11:25 AM)Luipaard Wrote:
(04-27-2019, 02:52 AM)Pckts Wrote:
(04-27-2019, 02:45 AM)Luipaard Wrote: Here's a more impressive Persian leopard than that Pantanal jaguaress. Look at his massive skull @0:30
I'm not sure where you got that from, the leopard looks normal body sized for a Male.
You need to see good sized males in person to appreciate what a 70kg Leopard actually looks like.
Edit: I found a treasure trove of old Jaguars photos that will be great for comparison. I'll post them tomorrow and you can post the Leopards that you think match up.
He looks large with a massive skull size. Not sure why you're overlooking that. But you've done that before so no surprise.
Persian have one of the biggest skulls, only Central African males best them. As you should know, it's a good indicator to estimate an animal its size. Same applies to these Central African males; their average skull size is higher than a South African male and the biggest skulls in the world are from these males. Tell me, what makes you think they're mediocre and will average 65kg with such huge skulls?
Just so you know, Tigers for instance have a stronger correlation to body length than Skull size which is why I keep saying that since we dont know skull size to body weight nor do we have many skulls with body weights as well for any leopard, you dont know what correlation skull size has. This is also true in persians which may be the largest Leopard and also not coincidentally are the longest Leopards on record as well.
In regards to your claims of massive leopards, again, you haven't seen them, I have. There is no alterior motive, you and I see very different things. I dont thing you should be making claims about overlooking anything, you've been doing it with comparable E/S African leopards that were hunted, actual verified weights from the Congo Basin it self or from the C. African hunts which no doubt some are the same individuals you find in the Congo basin, I'm sure they travel in and out of the forest, especially ones living on the fringe.
Again, I found a huge collection of Jaguar photos, you'll be able to compare properly I no time.
I'll post in a bit
You know why I use skull measurements all the time? When weighing a (dead) animal, you have no idea how much said animal has eaten (stomach content). The head size has been shown to be a very good indicator of overall body mass for big cats. Which is why researchers use this method aswell to get a more accurate estimate of how big an animal really is.
Quote:In regards to your claims of massive leopards, again, you haven't seen them, I have.
I don't think having being on a safari trip is a criteria in this discussion, does it? I use skull measurements from different subspecies to compare different subspecies. Opinions from experts or researchers are useful aswell.
Quote:you've been doing it with comparable E/S African leopards that were hunted, actual verified weights from the Congo Basin it self or from the C. African hunts which no doubt some are the same individuals you find in the Congo basin,
Not really, some particular East African leopards are indeed comparable, such as those from the Aberdare in Kenya or Ethiopia. And regarding the Central African leopards. There are areas where they're untouched but there are areas where they're competing with bushmeat hunters, thus limiting their prey selection. In those untouched areas, such as the Batéké Plateau National Park or Lopé National Park, they can predate on whatever they want to. This is why they're bigger and more robust, it's an adaption to take on larger prey like okapi and red river hogs.
Quote:Again, I found a huge collection of Jaguar photos, you'll be able to compare properly I no time.
Looking forward to that!
Using a skull estimate to give weight on a dead animal is not accurate, it's only an estimate which is why we're discussing verified weights and measurements.
In Regards to Leopards I've seen, I've seen a Large Male Indian and African in the Wild and a few females as well as many in captivity, nothing compared to likes of someone like Marlon Dutoit obviously but still enough to understand what a good size Leopard actually looks like compared to a regular one.
I also read a few other sites which I can't find at the moment that all said the largest scores come out of Central and East Africa, Tanzania in particular actually.
Now onto the Photos of the Jaguars I found... First I'll post the ones with weights or Skull Records to give you an idea
*This image is copyright of its original author
110 kg 242 pounds Tailless Jaguar that mauled a few people.
*This image is copyright of its original author
monster 127kg jaguar hunted by hector cuellar 279 pounds
*This image is copyright of its original author
milton meirelles shot this monster with a skull of 20 2/16
*This image is copyright of its original author
20 11/16 skull record size
*This image is copyright of its original author
huge male 116kg 255lbs
*This image is copyright of its original author
local with jaguar RECORD shot by ken vaughn 330lbs!
*This image is copyright of its original author
Huge jaguar male of 150 kg! 330lbs
*This image is copyright of its original author
Big jaguar 140kg
Now just some Massive Beasts with no weights provided
*This image is copyright of its original author
*This image is copyright of its original author
*This image is copyright of its original author
*This image is copyright of its original author
*This image is copyright of its original author
*This image is copyright of its original author
*This image is copyright of its original author
*This image is copyright of its original author
*This image is copyright of its original author
*This image is copyright of its original author
*This image is copyright of its original author
Huge Jag Compared to Human
*This image is copyright of its original author
Record Mexican Jag
Just look at these things, I can keep going too.
It's absolutely tragic to see so many giant specimens decimated over the years but it really gives you a new respect for just how large these guys can get.
Sorry but all these killed jaguars photo nauseate me a lot, in an other thread, today, those are killed tigers photos... Of course, I can not look at them if you think me being a pansy... But do you want to turn Wildfact into Huntfact ?
(04-28-2019, 02:42 AM)Spalea Wrote: Sorry but all these killed jaguars photo nauseate me a lot, in an other thread, today, those are killed tigers photos... Of course, I can not look at them if you think me being a pansy... But do you want to turn Wildfact into Huntfact ?
Hunting unfortunately is a part of the natural world.
While I certainly dont condone it, I don't completely deny its place in the world. Most people eat meat, who's to say killng domesticated animals force to live in horrible conditions is better than hunting one.
Again, I'm in no way condoning trophy hunting but if they eat their kill then it really is no different than the bite of chicken or steak or hamburger you just had.
The following 1 user Likes Pckts's post:1 user Likes Pckts's post • Luipaard
(04-28-2019, 02:42 AM)Spalea Wrote: Sorry but all these killed jaguars photo nauseate me a lot, in an other thread, today, those are killed tigers photos... Of course, I can not look at them if you think me being a pansy... But do you want to turn Wildfact into Huntfact ?
Hunting unfortunately is a part of the natural world.
While I certainly dont condone it, I don't completely deny its place in the world. Most people eat meat, who's to say killng domesticated animals force to live in horrible conditions is better than hunting one.
Again, I'm in no way condoning trophy hunting but if they eat their kill then it really is no different than the bite of chicken or steak or hamburger you just had.
04-28-2019, 10:24 AM( This post was last modified: 04-28-2019, 10:27 AM by Wolverine )
(04-26-2019, 11:56 PM)Luipaard Wrote: This is reliable, weight chart regarding Persian leopards;
While for sure it create impression for reliability obviously many respectful organisations in the area of wildlife research and protection and more especialy Panthera.org don't find a body mass of 115 kg very reliable or have decided that such a specimen is completely unnormal for the specie so the have stated openly that maximum weight of the wild leopards is 90 kg(17-90 kg): https://www.panthera.org/cat/leopard
Its easy to calculate that according Panthera.org as average jaguar is 1,8 times more massive than the leopard.
Any mass more than 100 kg would be unfunctional for the animal who spent big part of his life on the trees and rely for his hunt and survival on its climbing capabalities and any additional mass would be a burden. The nature does not want from leopards to be massive.
Concerning Persian leopards. Probably this is the King of all leopards. When a Persian male arrived for first time in our zoo I was like hypnotised and stuck to the cage for 20 minutes. Its not taller than Africans in the shoulders but its body is more elongated. Long, elegant, atletic, noble "beast". For thousand years for the people in Asia word "Persian" has symbolised a good taste, nobility in any area of the life - arts, dressing, habitutes, food, same like word "French" is symbol of good taste for the Western people. So Persian leopard is exactly such a "noble" beast. It lacks the robustness and massivnes of the jaguar but since its body is elongated nevertheless it has higher body mass than leopards from East Africa (Kenya) we have. While Central African and Persian leopards are probably rivals in terms of record size, I think that as average Persian leopard should be number one because it inhabit cold climate (Bergman's rule).
Persian leopard has never been so numerous as African ones and now probably only 700-800 are left so mathematical probability to find among them a giant is far less than among Africans. Mean the more numerous is one population the higher is probability to find exceptional specimen who is basically "unnormal". In other words in the case of the Persian leopard the largest subspecie should be the one who has highest average weight not the one who hold the records. If you have 50 000 leopards in Africa for sure some of them will be larger than many big Persians who are left only few hundred in the wild.
04-29-2019, 12:43 PM( This post was last modified: 04-29-2019, 02:12 PM by Luipaard )
(04-28-2019, 10:24 AM)Wolverine Wrote:
(04-26-2019, 11:56 PM)Luipaard Wrote: This is reliable, weight chart regarding Persian leopards;
While for sure it create impression for reliability obviously many respectful organisations in the area of wildlife research and protection and more especialy Panthera.org don't find a body mass of 115 kg very reliable or have decided that such a specimen is completely unnormal for the specie so the have stated openly that maximum weight of the wild leopards is 90 kg(17-90 kg): https://www.panthera.org/cat/leopard
Its easy to calculate that according Panthera.org as average jaguar is 1,8 times more massive than the leopard.
Any mass more than 100 kg would be unfunctional for the animal who spent big part of his life on the trees and rely for his hunt and survival on its climbing capabalities and any additional mass would be a burden. The nature does not want from leopards to be massive.
Concerning Persian leopards. Probably this is the King of all leopards. When a Persian male arrived for first time in our zoo I was like hypnotised and stuck to the cage for 20 minutes. Its not taller than Africans in the shoulders but its body is more elongated. Long, elegant, atletic, noble "beast". For thousand years for the people in Asia word "Persian" has symbolised a good taste, nobility in any area of the life - arts, dressing, habitutes, food, same like word "French" is symbol of good taste for the Western people. So Persian leopard is exactly such a "noble" beast. It lacks the robustness and massivnes of the jaguar but since its body is elongated nevertheless it has higher body mass than leopards from East Africa (Kenya) we have. While Central African and Persian leopards are probably rivals in terms of record size, I think that as average Persian leopard should be number one because it inhabit cold climate (Bergman's rule).
Persian leopard has never been so numerous as African ones and now probably only 700-800 are left so mathematical probability to find among them a giant is far less than among Africans. Mean the more numerous is one population the higher is probability to find exceptional specimen who is basically "unnormal". In other words in the case of the Persian leopard the largest subspecie should be the one who has highest average weight not the one who hold the records. If you have 50 000 leopards in Africa for sure some of them will be larger than many big Persians who are left only few hundred in the wild.
I'm aware of your calculations. Good that you're using Panthera as a source, becouse one of their researchers (Jo Taylor) admitted that leopards from Central Africa do look bigger and more robust.
However, you're kinda manipulating your numbers. 90kg is not the max weight according to that weight chart. So you have to use that weight number since you used the 158kg weight number for the jaguar. So if we use the 115kg Persian male, jaguar is 1,37 times more massive than the leopard.'
This is why I don't calculate like that, it doesn't give you a clear idea.
Quote:It lacks the robustness and massivnes of the jaguar
Only Central African leopards come close in terms of robustness.
Quote:Any mass more than 100 kg would be unfunctional for the animal who spent big part of his life on the trees and rely for his hunt and survival on its climbing capabalities and any additional mass would be a burden. The nature does not want from leopards to be massive.
In the absence of a more dominant competitor the subordinate species will tend to exhibit an increase in size (this is known as character release). Those subspecies happen to be the largest ones in the world; Sri Lankan, Persian, Central African and some exceptions in Eastern Africa (e.g. Aberdare mountains). In the savanna the leopard’s size is constrained by its need to be much smaller than the lion in order to reduce competition over prey and also to be able to evade the larger cat by climbing further up into trees etc. In the forest the leopard is free to hunt larger animals and also does not need to stay lightweight to climb high into trees.
And regarding the limitation of their weight; the chart kinda proved that there isn't a barrier (in this case the famous 90kg one). A young Persian male already weighed 64kg (source), that's the average size of an adult South African male.
@Pckts Those are impressive jaguars. Sad pictures but still. I don't like the comparison with those 2 hunted leopards though. You just showed 2 mediocre males and compare them with the largest jaguars.
Here's a comparison of a Persian leopard and another mediocre male leopard
*This image is copyright of its original author
I can show you many more pictures like these that can match your impressive photo 'collection'. Those leopards happen to be the larger subspecies (Eastern African, Anatolian, Barbary, Central African, ...). However, I'm not going to post them here. I understand this is not the right thread and I understand that other members on this forum do not appreciate these kind of pictures. I don't like them either, they disgust me.
So if you really want to discuss further (I'd like to anyway), I can PM you?
04-29-2019, 03:33 PM( This post was last modified: 04-29-2019, 03:34 PM by Pckts )
(04-29-2019, 12:43 PM)Luipaard Wrote:
(04-28-2019, 10:24 AM)Wolverine Wrote:
(04-26-2019, 11:56 PM)Luipaard Wrote: This is reliable, weight chart regarding Persian leopards;
While for sure it create impression for reliability obviously many respectful organisations in the area of wildlife research and protection and more especialy Panthera.org don't find a body mass of 115 kg very reliable or have decided that such a specimen is completely unnormal for the specie so the have stated openly that maximum weight of the wild leopards is 90 kg(17-90 kg): https://www.panthera.org/cat/leopard
Its easy to calculate that according Panthera.org as average jaguar is 1,8 times more massive than the leopard.
Any mass more than 100 kg would be unfunctional for the animal who spent big part of his life on the trees and rely for his hunt and survival on its climbing capabalities and any additional mass would be a burden. The nature does not want from leopards to be massive.
Concerning Persian leopards. Probably this is the King of all leopards. When a Persian male arrived for first time in our zoo I was like hypnotised and stuck to the cage for 20 minutes. Its not taller than Africans in the shoulders but its body is more elongated. Long, elegant, atletic, noble "beast". For thousand years for the people in Asia word "Persian" has symbolised a good taste, nobility in any area of the life - arts, dressing, habitutes, food, same like word "French" is symbol of good taste for the Western people. So Persian leopard is exactly such a "noble" beast. It lacks the robustness and massivnes of the jaguar but since its body is elongated nevertheless it has higher body mass than leopards from East Africa (Kenya) we have. While Central African and Persian leopards are probably rivals in terms of record size, I think that as average Persian leopard should be number one because it inhabit cold climate (Bergman's rule).
Persian leopard has never been so numerous as African ones and now probably only 700-800 are left so mathematical probability to find among them a giant is far less than among Africans. Mean the more numerous is one population the higher is probability to find exceptional specimen who is basically "unnormal". In other words in the case of the Persian leopard the largest subspecie should be the one who has highest average weight not the one who hold the records. If you have 50 000 leopards in Africa for sure some of them will be larger than many big Persians who are left only few hundred in the wild.
I'm aware of your calculations. Good that you're using Panthera as a source, becouse one of their researchers (Jo Taylor) admitted that leopards from Central Africa do look bigger and more robust.
However, you're kinda manipulating your numbers. 90kg is not the max weight according to that weight chart. So you have to use that weight number since you used the 158kg weight number for the jaguar. So if we use the 115kg Persian male, jaguar is 1,37 times more massive than the leopard.'
This is why I don't calculate like that, it doesn't give you a clear idea.
Quote:It lacks the robustness and massivnes of the jaguar
Only Central African leopards come close in terms of robustness.
Quote:Any mass more than 100 kg would be unfunctional for the animal who spent big part of his life on the trees and rely for his hunt and survival on its climbing capabalities and any additional mass would be a burden. The nature does not want from leopards to be massive.
In the absence of a more dominant competitor the subordinate species will tend to exhibit an increase in size (this is known as character release). Those subspecies happen to be the largest ones in the world; Sri Lankan, Persian, Central African and some exceptions in Eastern Africa (e.g. Aberdare mountains). In the savanna the leopard’s size is constrained by its need to be much smaller than the lion in order to reduce competition over prey and also to be able to evade the larger cat by climbing further up into trees etc. In the forest the leopard is free to hunt larger animals and also does not need to stay lightweight to climb high into trees.
And regarding the limitation of their weight; the chart kinda proved that there isn't a barrier (in this case the famous 90kg one). A young Persian male already weighed 64kg (source), that's the average size of an adult South African male.
@Pckts Those are impressive jaguars. Sad pictures but still. I don't like the comparison with those 2 hunted leopards though. You just showed 2 mediocre males and compare them with the largest jaguars.
Here's a comparison of a Persian leopard and another mediocre male leopard
*This image is copyright of its original author
I can show you many more pictures like these that can match your impressive photo 'collection'. Those leopards happen to be the larger subspecies (Eastern African, Anatolian, Barbary, Central African, ...). However, I'm not going to post them here. I understand this is not the right thread and I understand that other members on this forum do not appreciate these kind of pictures. I don't like them either, they disgust me.
So if you really want to discuss further (I'd like to anyway), I can PM you?
If you want to pick and choose which cats to compare to, of course you can find similar sizes, I just posted cats in the same positions that I could find. But when comparing to the cats I posted, that Persian for instance is much shorter and easier to display. The Jaguar I posted is almost folded due to the mass and size over whelming that man comparee to the Persian which sits on the man's shoulders and its body is easily displayed.
*This image is copyright of its original author
*This image is copyright of its original author
Do you really think that Persian is as large as this Jaguar?
But anyway, yes feel free to PM from here on out and I'd be happy to discuss further.
The following 1 user Likes Pckts's post:1 user Likes Pckts's post • Rishi
(04-26-2019, 11:56 PM)Luipaard Wrote: This is reliable, weight chart regarding Persian leopards;
While for sure it create impression for reliability obviously many respectful organisations in the area of wildlife research and protection and more especialy Panthera.org don't find a body mass of 115 kg very reliable or have decided that such a specimen is completely unnormal for the specie so the have stated openly that maximum weight of the wild leopards is 90 kg(17-90 kg): https://www.panthera.org/cat/leopard
Its easy to calculate that according Panthera.org as average jaguar is 1,8 times more massive than the leopard.
Any mass more than 100 kg would be unfunctional for the animal who spent big part of his life on the trees and rely for his hunt and survival on its climbing capabalities and any additional mass would be a burden. The nature does not want from leopards to be massive.
Concerning Persian leopards. Probably this is the King of all leopards. When a Persian male arrived for first time in our zoo I was like hypnotised and stuck to the cage for 20 minutes. Its not taller than Africans in the shoulders but its body is more elongated. Long, elegant, atletic, noble "beast". For thousand years for the people in Asia word "Persian" has symbolised a good taste, nobility in any area of the life - arts, dressing, habitutes, food, same like word "French" is symbol of good taste for the Western people. So Persian leopard is exactly such a "noble" beast. It lacks the robustness and massivnes of the jaguar but since its body is elongated nevertheless it has higher body mass than leopards from East Africa (Kenya) we have. While Central African and Persian leopards are probably rivals in terms of record size, I think that as average Persian leopard should be number one because it inhabit cold climate (Bergman's rule).
Persian leopard has never been so numerous as African ones and now probably only 700-800 are left so mathematical probability to find among them a giant is far less than among Africans. Mean the more numerous is one population the higher is probability to find exceptional specimen who is basically "unnormal". In other words in the case of the Persian leopard the largest subspecie should be the one who has highest average weight not the one who hold the records. If you have 50 000 leopards in Africa for sure some of them will be larger than many big Persians who are left only few hundred in the wild.
I'm aware of your calculations. Good that you're using Panthera as a source, becouse one of their researchers (Jo Taylor) admitted that leopards from Central Africa do look bigger and more robust.
However, you're kinda manipulating your numbers. 90kg is not the max weight according to that weight chart. So you have to use that weight number since you used the 158kg weight number for the jaguar. So if we use the 115kg Persian male, jaguar is 1,37 times more massive than the leopard.'
This is why I don't calculate like that, it doesn't give you a clear idea.
Quote:It lacks the robustness and massivnes of the jaguar
Only Central African leopards come close in terms of robustness.
Quote:Any mass more than 100 kg would be unfunctional for the animal who spent big part of his life on the trees and rely for his hunt and survival on its climbing capabalities and any additional mass would be a burden. The nature does not want from leopards to be massive.
In the absence of a more dominant competitor the subordinate species will tend to exhibit an increase in size (this is known as character release). Those subspecies happen to be the largest ones in the world; Sri Lankan, Persian, Central African and some exceptions in Eastern Africa (e.g. Aberdare mountains). In the savanna the leopard’s size is constrained by its need to be much smaller than the lion in order to reduce competition over prey and also to be able to evade the larger cat by climbing further up into trees etc. In the forest the leopard is free to hunt larger animals and also does not need to stay lightweight to climb high into trees.
And regarding the limitation of their weight; the chart kinda proved that there isn't a barrier (in this case the famous 90kg one). A young Persian male already weighed 64kg (source), that's the average size of an adult South African male.
@Pckts Those are impressive jaguars. Sad pictures but still. I don't like the comparison with those 2 hunted leopards though. You just showed 2 mediocre males and compare them with the largest jaguars.
Here's a comparison of a Persian leopard and another mediocre male leopard
*This image is copyright of its original author
I can show you many more pictures like these that can match your impressive photo 'collection'. Those leopards happen to be the larger subspecies (Eastern African, Anatolian, Barbary, Central African, ...). However, I'm not going to post them here. I understand this is not the right thread and I understand that other members on this forum do not appreciate these kind of pictures. I don't like them either, they disgust me.
So if you really want to discuss further (I'd like to anyway), I can PM you?
If you want to pick and choose which cats to compare to, of course you can find similar sizes, I just posted cats in the same positions that I could find. But when comparing to the cats I posted, that Persian for instance is much shorter and easier to display. The Jaguar I posted is almost folded due to the mass and size over whelming that man comparee to the Persian which sits on the man's shoulders and its body is easily displayed.
*This image is copyright of its original author
*This image is copyright of its original author
Do you really think that Persian is as large as this Jaguar?
But anyway, yes feel free to PM from here on out and I'd be happy to discuss further.
You're making that comparison. I never did that.
As for the PM, I'll get in touch with you once I have the time for it.
(04-27-2019, 02:45 AM)Luipaard Wrote: Here's a more impressive Persian leopard than that Pantanal jaguaress. Look at his massive skull @0:30
I'm not sure where you got that from, the leopard looks normal body sized for a Male.
You need to see good sized males in person to appreciate what a 70kg Leopard actually looks like.
Edit: I found a treasure trove of old Jaguars photos that will be great for comparison. I'll post them tomorrow and you can post the Leopards that you think match up.
He looks large with a massive skull size. Not sure why you're overlooking that. But you've done that before so no surprise.
Persian have one of the biggest skulls, only Central African males best them. As you should know, it's a good indicator to estimate an animal its size. Same applies to these Central African males; their average skull size is higher than a South African male and the biggest skulls in the world are from these males. Tell me, what makes you think they're mediocre and will average 65kg with such huge skulls?
Just so you know, Tigers for instance have a stronger correlation to body length than Skull size which is why I keep saying that since we dont know skull size to body weight nor do we have many skulls with body weights as well for any leopard, you dont know what correlation skull size has. This is also true in persians which may be the largest Leopard and also not coincidentally are the longest Leopards on record as well.
In regards to your claims of massive leopards, again, you haven't seen them, I have. There is no alterior motive, you and I see very different things. I dont thing you should be making claims about overlooking anything, you've been doing it with comparable E/S African leopards that were hunted, actual verified weights from the Congo Basin it self or from the C. African hunts which no doubt some are the same individuals you find in the Congo basin, I'm sure they travel in and out of the forest, especially ones living on the fringe.
Again, I found a huge collection of Jaguar photos, you'll be able to compare properly I no time.
I'll post in a bit
You know why I use skull measurements all the time? When weighing a (dead) animal, you have no idea how much said animal has eaten (stomach content). The head size has been shown to be a very good indicator of overall body mass for big cats. Which is why researchers use this method aswell to get a more accurate estimate of how big an animal really is.
Quote:In regards to your claims of massive leopards, again, you haven't seen them, I have.
I don't think having being on a safari trip is a criteria in this discussion, does it? I use skull measurements from different subspecies to compare different subspecies. Opinions from experts or researchers are useful aswell.
Quote:you've been doing it with comparable E/S African leopards that were hunted, actual verified weights from the Congo Basin it self or from the C. African hunts which no doubt some are the same individuals you find in the Congo basin,
Not really, some particular East African leopards are indeed comparable, such as those from the Aberdare in Kenya or Ethiopia. And regarding the Central African leopards. There are areas where they're untouched but there are areas where they're competing with bushmeat hunters, thus limiting their prey selection. In those untouched areas, such as the Batéké Plateau National Park or Lopé National Park, they can predate on whatever they want to. This is why they're bigger and more robust, it's an adaption to take on larger prey like okapi and red river hogs.
Quote:Again, I found a huge collection of Jaguar photos, you'll be able to compare properly I no time.
Looking forward to that!
Using a skull estimate to give weight on a dead animal is not accurate, it's only an estimate which is why we're discussing verified weights and measurements.
In Regards to Leopards I've seen, I've seen a Large Male Indian and African in the Wild and a few females as well as many in captivity, nothing compared to likes of someone like Marlon Dutoit obviously but still enough to understand what a good size Leopard actually looks like compared to a regular one.
I also read a few other sites which I can't find at the moment that all said the largest scores come out of Central and East Africa, Tanzania in particular actually.
Now onto the Photos of the Jaguars I found... First I'll post the ones with weights or Skull Records to give you an idea
*This image is copyright of its original author
110 kg 242 pounds Tailless Jaguar that mauled a few people.
*This image is copyright of its original author
monster 127kg jaguar hunted by hector cuellar 279 pounds
*This image is copyright of its original author
milton meirelles shot this monster with a skull of 20 2/16
*This image is copyright of its original author
20 11/16 skull record size
*This image is copyright of its original author
huge male 116kg 255lbs
*This image is copyright of its original author
local with jaguar RECORD shot by ken vaughn 330lbs!
*This image is copyright of its original author
Huge jaguar male of 150 kg! 330lbs
*This image is copyright of its original author
Big jaguar 140kg
Now just some Massive Beasts with no weights provided
*This image is copyright of its original author
*This image is copyright of its original author
*This image is copyright of its original author
*This image is copyright of its original author
*This image is copyright of its original author
*This image is copyright of its original author
*This image is copyright of its original author
*This image is copyright of its original author
*This image is copyright of its original author
*This image is copyright of its original author
*This image is copyright of its original author
Huge Jag Compared to Human
*This image is copyright of its original author
Record Mexican Jag
Just look at these things, I can keep going too.
It's absolutely tragic to see so many giant specimens decimated over the years but it really gives you a new respect for just how large these guys can get.
@Pckts
Very good pictures and information if large Jaguars
The following 1 user Likes epaiva's post:1 user Likes epaiva's post • Pckts
Again, I in no way condone any of these images, I just find them interesting. And if we're not going to use them for analysis then it almost makes it more of a waste.
The following 1 user Likes Pckts's post:1 user Likes Pckts's post • Sanju
