There is a world somewhere between reality and fiction. Although ignored by many, it is very real and so are those living in it. This forum is about the natural world. Here, wild animals will be heard and respected. The forum offers a glimpse into an unknown world as well as a room with a view on the present and the future. Anyone able to speak on behalf of those living in the emerald forest and the deep blue sea is invited to join.
--- Peter Broekhuijsen ---
Original post series Tigerluver has shared first original post series on WildFact.

  • 7 Vote(s) - 3.57 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
ON THE EDGE OF EXTINCTION - B - THE LION (Panthera leo)

United States Pckts Offline
Bigcat Enthusiast
******
#91

Has anybody read this book?


Comparative growth of wild male and female lions (Panthera led)
  1. G. L. Smuts1,†,
  2. G. A. Robinson2 and
  3. I. J. Whyte3
Article first published online: 20 AUG 2009
DOI: 10.1111/j.1469-7998.1980.tb01433.x

"
Lion growth was studied by fitting sex specific Von Bertalanffy curves and linear regressions to data on body mass, heart girth, shoulder height and vertebral column length. Measurements were recorded for 344 lions (Panthera leo) (158 ♂♂ and 186 ♀♀), from Kruger National Park, South Africa. Growth in mass for males and females was linear up to about 36 months of age 0 = 0–98 and 0–99 respectively). The other age-specific measurements were clearly curvilinear. Mean weights for adult lions (excluding stomach contents) were 187–5 kg (♂♂) and 124–2 kg (♀♀) respectively. Lions tended to continue growing up to about seven years in males and nine to 10 years in females after which they usually started to lose condition. Body mass and heart girth measurements of Kruger Park lions were compared with samples from three other populations. These showed that lions from East Africa were smaller than those from more southern populations in Rhodesia, Kalahari and Kruger Park."
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/wol1/doi/...x/abstract

They want to charge for the PDF




Another interesting find...

http://www.africahunting.com/threads/mea...ors.14869/

Quote:Measuring Large African Predators
by HO de Waal, University of the Free State

Conversations among wildlife enthusiasts, especially hunters, usually include references to the size of animals. Although specific dimensions may be referred to, interpretation by the audience is open to differing perceptions. Acceptingvariation as a basic principle of biology means that body dimensionsof animals must vary. Although some body measurements can be taken with great accuracy, differences in measuring techniques contribute to variation. Applying standard procedures when collecting data for morphometric analysis can reduce this variation.

Dr. G.L. Smuts took body measurements from 158 male and 186 female African lions in the Central District of the Kruger National Park between 1974 and 1978. Smuts et al. (1980) stated: 泥espite many wild lions (Panthera leo) having been handled both dead and immobilized in the past, surprisingly little has been published on aspects of their growth or even the average weights or body dimensions of adult specimens. 祢n this regard, Dr. B. Bertram described already in 1975 how he weighed large male lions single-handedly. "Weighing large animals does not necessarily require huge tripods, trees, spring balances and teams of assistants. I am grateful to Dr J.M. King for suggesting the use of bathroom scales for weighing immobilized lions. I carried six lengths of angle iron and four wooden planks 30 cm wide; all were 120 cm long, and so fitted conveniently into a small vehicle. These components could be bolted together in 4 min to produce a platform roughly 120 cm by 200 cm. This was placed close to the back of the immobilized lion, which was then rolled over onto it and pushed to the centre of the platform. A set of low flat bathroom scales was placed underneath each end. With the platform with the lion then balanced on the two sets of scales, the reading of each scale was taken; their sum, minus the weight of the platform, gave the weight of the lion. With this system, it was possible to weigh a lion of 200 kg alone and without assistance, and with a minimum of disturbance. A slightly larger platform with four sets of scales would enable one to weigh considerably heavier animals."

Why then are animals and specifically the larger African predators not measured when the opportunity arises? Measuring the bodies of immobilized large animals is time consuming and has to compete with activities such as collecting bio- logical samples (e.g. blood), fitting radio collars or just the inevitable time constraints of a tourist hunter on a two or three week safari. Furthermore, animals are often subjected by operators to a range of different measuring techniques. The African trophy hunter may register trophy size of animals in three major record books (SCI, Rowland Ward, CIC). RW and SCI measure the greatest length and width of the skull and add the two figures (RW method 17, SCI method 15), CIC uses the Boone & Crockett method which also scores the total of greatest length and width, however measurements are taken on the cranium without the lower jaw attached. The scores are measured to the nearest 1/16 of an inch. Only SCI lists the body measurements of darted carnivores. The score is the sum of the length of body including tail between pegs;circumference of chest and circumference of head, measured to the nearest 1/8 of an inch (SCI Method 16-D). It is optional to provide the weight of the animal in this category.

However, the procedure of registering trophies in record books is not satisfactory because of an important bias. Only data of the some animals are registered since many hunters do not register their trophies at all and the SCI record book is restricted to SCI members only. Rowland Ward's 26thedition lists only about 500 lion skulls over a period of about 100 years. Important data is therefore lost to science and conservation efforts.

In February 2002, ALPRU (African Large Predator Research Unit, University of the Free State) started a database on the body mass and dimensions of large African predators. We developed standardized procedures to measure specimens and record data collected from dead or immobilized large African predators. For example, for an adult male African lion, with its mane extending down to the abdomen, 45 variables are taken. The objective is to develop non-invasive techniques to determine whether wild animals might have been subjected to subnormal growth and development; primarily as result of their habitat and food variation. Are the animals large enough and well developed for their age?

There is a concern that trophy quality of African lions is declining. Recently Karyl Whitman [African Indaba (2), 14- 15] suggested that measurements of lion skull size and body size should be recorded for all legally hunted African lionand a qualitative mane assessment should be introduced.

The procedures proposed by ALPRU can assist here. We suggest that professional hunters should measure all variables on all hunted large predators. Measuring instructions are available on request. African Indaba and the African Chapter strongly recommend that members should cooperate with ALPRU in data collection. Please contact them at African Large Predator Research Unit (ALPRU), Dept Animal, Wildlife and Grassland Sciences (70), Faculty of Natural and Agricultural Sciences, University of the Free State, PO Box 339, Bloemfontein 9300, RSA. Email: ALPRU@sci.uovs.ac.za.

References: Bertram, B.C.R., 1975. Weights and measures of lions. East African Wildlife Journal 13, 141-143. Smuts, G.L., Robinson, G.A. & Whyte, I.J., 1980. Comparative growth of wild male and female lions (Panthera leo). Journal of Zoology, London 190, 365-373.
 


I have emailed them to see the measuring instructions they recommend.
"Imagination was given to man to compensate him for what he is not, and a sense of humor was provided to console him for what he is."
-Oscar Wilde
2 users Like Pckts's post
Reply

Canada Dr Panthera Offline
Pharmacist and biologist
***
#92

(02-03-2016, 05:08 PM)sanjay Wrote: Below is lion population estimation in different country of Africa by IFAW, IUCN and Duke University in year 2015

*This image is copyright of its original author




But realistically, we have to accept a very sad fact. For one of the most iconic species on this planet, we actually have no idea of how many lions continue to exist in Africa. That is because nobody has funded scientifically valid lion counts.

But let’s have a look at the map above and the numbers quoted. See all those brown areas where lions are supposed to occur? Let’s just look at some of them.

1. It would appear that Angola is stuffed with lions. At least ¾ of that country is colored in brown. How many lions occur in Angola? Nobody knows, and nobody has counted even one in the last ten years. It is likely that there are hardly any.

2. Mozambique similarly seems to be stuffed with lions. Look at all that brown color on the map of Mozambique! The graphic says that Mozambique has 678 lions. That number is likely to be inflated according to recent information. And guess what? Most of those brown areas have not one lion.

3. Moving up the map, lions are still supposed to exist in vast areas of southern Somalia. Forget it. That is a war zone.

4. And then there is a huge brown area suggesting that lions occur across considerable areas in South Sudan, northern Democratic Republic of Congo, Chad, and the Central African Republic. No chance.

So now let’s move on to the numbers of lions suggested by this "info-graphic" in various other areas.

1. Zambia is supposed to have 2,349 lions. Wow! Where did that number come from? Actually, based on more recent numbers published by researchers and safari operators, it could be estimated that Zambia has perhaps 400 – 500 lions. Most of those occur in the large nationally protected areas like Kafue and the Luangwas. The misinformation about the numbers of lions remaining in Zambia has led the Minister of Tourism and Arts to announce a reversal of a ban on trophy hunting announced in 2013. Now lions can be hunted again… without any independently verifiable count of lion numbers in that country.

2. Zimbabwe is supposed to have 1,362 lions. Wow! Where did that number come from? A recent survey of the huge Gonorezhou park in the south indicated that only 33 lions remain. No dedicated and scientific counts have been undertaken in Hwange, but these days estimates from old numbers range between 83-400 resident lions. The Mid-Zambezi area is supposed to contain large numbers of lions but has never been scientifically surveyed. The Bubye fenced lion trophy hunting area is supposed to contain 200 lions. We have no idea of how many lions remain in that country.

3. Kenya is shown to contain 2,515 lions. Based on what information? Despite probably more lion researchers per square kilometre in Kenya than in any other African country, we still have no verifiable information about Kenya’s lion population. In 2012 the Kenya Wildlife Service said there were 1,700 lions in Kenya. Based on no real surveys. So where does the 2,515 number come from?

4. Botswana is supposed to contain 3,063 lions? Based on what information? The last scientific lion surveys in the north of Botswana were conducted in 2001. I should know, as I participated. Botswana does contain a very large number of lions, but 3,063 of them is a nonsense.

5. South Africa is supposed to contain 3,284 wild lions? Now where would all those be? Kruger might contain about 1,200 lions and then we start to struggle to find more. Yes, there are many fenced reserves that contain introduced lions, and there are many private reserves that contain lions, but all of those are heavily managed and placed there to attract tourists. The entire concept of a truly wild lion escapes definition in South Africa.

6. Ethiopia is supposed to contain 1,239 lions? And where does that number come from? I know of no verifiable lion population count EVER undertaken across Ethiopia. The Ethiopian wildlife authorities are very concerned about their lion population numbers. Perhaps a more realistic number of lions could be arrived at by at the very least halving that number?

In conclusion, these sorts of maps and numbers do lions no service. What we need is no further extrapolations but a much more realistic number. And that will need some actual counts. Those will be expensive and time intensive, but there is no other option if intelligent ways forward are to be truly engaged to conserve this iconic species.
Original source: http://www.lionaid.org/news/2016/02/how-...africa.htm

I agree with you Sanjay in most of what you mention, unless every single animal is radio-collard and accounted for , all we have is best estimates , the method of estimating the number and the variables considered should be thoroughly evaluated.
Conservationists tend to use the lowest end of the number to underline the plight of the animals and the need to protect them, governments use the highest end to trumpet their success and "the vision of their fearless leaders", hunting agencies make you believe that Africa has over 100,000 lions and a million leopards to perpetuate and enlarge hunting quotas.
It is high time that a continent-wide, scientifically accurate, internationally organized census of African lions is conducted.
It is true that Angola, Mozambique, Ethiopia, Zimbabwe, Zambia, Namibia, CDR, Botswana and South Sudan all have  large areas of pristine wilderness and can each potentially be home for several thousand lions yet little to no research was done to back the estimates.
The estimate for Kenya is a bit hopeful but not very far off, whereas for South Africa with 3000 wild lions and 6000 plus captive bred ones is ridiculous.
Tanzania is the only country where lions are abundant and I think part of the problem is that researchers are extrapolating numbers for other areas based on their findings in Tanzania or South Africa.
Whether there are 20,000 wild lions or 40,000 today it does not matter, Africa has millions of square kilometers of "lion country" but lions are disappearing from most unprotected areas.
6 users Like Dr Panthera's post
Reply

Mexico Gamiz Offline
Lion Enthusiast
****
#93

From Peter Rettig

Tomorow is World Lion Day

Did you know, that it is still perfectly legal to shoot a lion for fun in several African Countries (talking about Trophy Hunting), despite the fact, that there are probably less than 20,000 Lions left in the Wild and that Lion numbers are still in free fall decline? Despite the fact, that Trophy Hunting outside small fenced and managed Game Farms has proofed to be economically useless and utterly destructive for Lion Populations? While it is a fact that Trophy Hunting has almost zero positive impact on Human Wildlife Conflict and Poaching? It is a disgusting reality!

The picture above is showing "Blackie" out on the plains in the Maasai Mara just two month ago. 

"Blackie" is a 11-12 year old Male Lion. Many self claimed Lion Conservationists & Researchers (e.g. from WWF or Panthera), many African Leaders (responsible for Wildlife & Tourism in their respective countries), all involved people in the Global Hunting Industry (Outfitters, Professionell Hunters and Lobbyists) would argue: Blackie should have been hunted down several years ago already. Why?

The argumentation is the following:
- Male Lions beyong 6 years of age have concluded on their productive life span, they are old and can be taken out without negative impact on the Lion Population
- Shooting a Male Lion will deliver significant amount of money which can be re-invested into Lion Conservation (e.g. paying the rural communities for tolerating Lions and to compensate them for Lifestock Losses)

Well, a Male Lion Hunt will deliver (depending on Country) something between 20,000 - 50,000 $ for the Host Country (Trophy Fee, Bed Night Fees, Taxidermist, Transportation, Taxes etc.). Only a minor part of this money will ever reach the rural communities. A living lion over his/her lifespan (10-12 years on average) will deliver 3-5 mill. $ out of photographic tourism and therefore those lions living in tourism attractive areas will easily compensate for those lions living in rough and less scenic areas. As mentioned above, Trophy Hunting is economically useless.

Let's have a look at the other argument: are Male Lions older than 6 years beyong their prime and no longer important for the health of a Lion Population? That is complete nonsense! "Blackie" is a good example:
- "Blackie" and his 3 brothers/coalition partners showed up mid of 2009 in the Mara Triangle; they came in from the Serengeti along with the migratory herds; all 4 were young nomadic males 4-5 years old; almost certainly they never had a chance to successfully mate and to sire cubs before
- "Blackie" and his 3 partners tried to settle down and to take over a Lion Pride in the Triangle; they had to compete against a coalition of 6 Male Lions (the famous Notches); it took them almost a year to take over the Mugoro Pride (one of them vanished during the confrontations with the Notches, as well as one of the Notches); "Blackie" was 5-6 years old when he started breeding
- two years later "Blackie" and one of his coalition partners (Lipstick) crossed the Mara River and first took over the Paradise Pride and later the Rekero and the Rekero Breakaway Pride; they left the Mugoro Pride for good, but 3 of their offspring made it to adulthood and survived the take over by the 4 Oloololo Males (the third member of "Blackies" coaltion vanished in the process of the takeover)
- another year later the 4 Musketeers (the Marsh Pride Males) started to challenge "Blackie & Lipstick"; this process lasted about a year; "Blackie" & "Lipstick" lost all 3 prides to the Musketeers but claimed one back (the Rekero Pride); 4-6 of their offspring from the Paradise Pride and Rekero Breakaway Pride made it to adulthood; "Blackie" & "Lipstick" were now 9-10 years old
- another year later, mid of 2015, they were the proud fathers of 13 youngsters with the Rekero Pride, when the 4 Musketeers again challenged them and at some point they left the Rekero Pride (3-5 of the Rekero Youngsters are still alive) only to take over the Topi Plains Pride (who had been left for good by the 4 Musketeers)
- today "Blackie" & "Lipstick" are the proud fathers of 4 youngsters with 2 females from the Topi Plains Pride and have recently mated with another 2 lionesses, at the age of 11-12 years; so far they successfully protect the territory against other males and coalitions

"Blackie's" vita is not an exception, it is rather common that Male Lions only start breeding at the age of 4-6 years, that Male Lions lose a pride to other lions just to take over another pride. There are countless examples of Male Lions beyong 10 years of age being successful Pride Males.


*This image is copyright of its original author
6 users Like Gamiz's post
Reply

Italy Ngala Offline
Wildanimal Enthusiast
*****
#94

Phylogeographic Patterns in Africa and High Resolution Delineation of Genetic Clades in the Lion (Panthera leo) Bertola et al., 2016

Abstract:
"Comparative phylogeography of African savannah mammals shows a congruent pattern in which populations in West/Central Africa are distinct from populations in East/Southern Africa. However, for the lion, all African populations are currently classified as a single subspecies (Panthera leo leo), while the only remaining population in Asia is considered to be distinct (Panthera leo persica). This distinction is disputed both by morphological and genetic data. In this study we introduce the lion as a model for African phylogeography. Analyses of mtDNA sequences reveal six supported clades and a strongly supported ancestral dichotomy with northern populations (West Africa, Central Africa, North Africa/Asia) on one branch, and southern populations (North East Africa, East/Southern Africa and South West Africa) on the other. We review taxonomies and phylogenies of other large savannah mammals, illustrating that similar clades are found in other species. The described phylogeographic pattern is considered in relation to large scale environmental changes in Africa over the past 300,000 years, attributable to climate. Refugial areas, predicted by climate envelope models, further confirm the observed pattern. We support the revision of current lion taxonomy, as recognition of a northern and a southern subspecies is more parsimonious with the evolutionary history of the lion."
"Man still bears in his bodily frame the indelible stamp of his lowly origin." C. Darwin
6 users Like Ngala's post
Reply

United States Pckts Offline
Bigcat Enthusiast
******
#95
( This post was last modified: 08-17-2016, 10:08 PM by Pckts )

@Gamiz
Any claim that the hunting of an "older" animal is essentially "good" for the species is an absolute joke, its used to remove the villain tag attached to trophy hunters and is pathetic.
Its just one of the many excuses hunters and game officials use to continue to profit from the hunting their territory brings in. In colorado they just instilled a "carnivore hunting program" to help the population of mule deer increase. They claim that mule deer are being hunted near extinction because the carnivore population is too high.... Lets look at this logic for a second.

How in the world would a carnivore population be higher than the supporting prey base would allow?
Carnivores only kill whats available, if mule deer population was low, the carnivores that hunted them would be directly affected and their #'s would drop drastically. We have seen it all over the world, time and time again. It's time for people to open their eyes, NEVER will the hunting of any animal help them or any other animal, unless an invasive animal has entered the picture. It's a joke that so called "wild animal parks" or "refuges" still can use this excuse and gov'ts still accept it.
"Imagination was given to man to compensate him for what he is not, and a sense of humor was provided to console him for what he is."
-Oscar Wilde
4 users Like Pckts's post
Reply

Netherlands peter Offline
Expert & Researcher
*****
Moderators
#96

INTERVIEW WITH CRAIG PACKER ABOUT THE FUTURE OF LIONS 

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2015/oct/04/craig-packer-interview-cecil-the-lion-killer?CMP=share_btn_fb
5 users Like peter's post
Reply

Netherlands peter Offline
Expert & Researcher
*****
Moderators
#97
( This post was last modified: 08-25-2016, 01:15 AM by peter )

THE CRAIG PACKER INTERVIEW - A FEW POINTS TO REMEMBER


a - Hunters, trophy hunters, outfitters and pressure groups

Packer described hunters as 'tourists'. They often believe whatever they are told: " ... A lot of clients head off into the bush believing that $ 50,000 will save the world - when in fact virtually none of that money goes to conservation ... ". Furthermore, " ... the true costs of conservation are far higher ... ".

Although not too harsh on the dentist who finished male lion 'Cecil', Packer had to bit his lips when he was in the trophy room of another American billionaire 'lion hunter'. What he saw, was " ... a chilling tableau of animals frozen in death ... ".  
  
When there are millionaire and billionaire trophy hunters, there are outfitters. Some are ok, but many are not: " ... The corrupt companies all have connections with government. They are ruthless. The good ones fear that they will not be able to carry on if I name them. Hunting in Tanzania has been a bad thing. Kenia is just as bad ... ". Based on what I read, Zimbabwe most probably also features on the list.

As to organisations in favour of this or that and their opponents. In general, Packer tries to stay away from them. The reason is the most organisations pro or contra this or that have to be considered as lobbyists. Most focus on a few issues only and the result is a lack of overview.  


b - Hunters

Although very pessimistic about the future of lions, Packer isn't opposed to hunting per se. It depends on the way it is done and the philosophy: " ... If hunters take care of entire eco systems - the land, the plants and the herbivores - they would be rewarded with healthy numbers of lions ... ".

The way he talks about hunting and managing eco systems reminds me of Russia. Researchers and others involved in conservation in Sichote-Alin concluded that both hunters and locals are needed to make conservation work. Although the 60 000 hunters with a license in Sichote-Alin don't like to compete with Amur tigers, they know wolves are far more destructive. They also know wolves avoid Amur tigers. When you connect both, the conclusion is Amur tigers are not the worst option. Hunters agreed and the result is less poaching and more Amur tigers. Not thousands of tigers, but more than a few decades ago. Problem solved, although it's unlikely there will be more than a thousand (adult) Amur tigers in the near future. 

There are three major differences between Sichote-Alin and Africa.

One is Amur tigers only very seldom kill humans. As they are quite modest regarding cattle as well, they earned a bit of goodwill. Two is outfitters and government didn't start a secret operation to make a few more bucks in Sichote-Alin. Could be a result of a bit more supervision (Putin seems to be quite interested in Amur tigers), but my guess is national pride, culture and, to a degree, prosperity could be as important. When the Sovjet-Union had collapsed and poverty struck, many tigers were poached. Today, the situation seems to be a bit better. Three is hunters in Sichote-Alin don't come from the USA. They live in Sichote-Alin and seem to be more connected to Wild Russia. Furthermore, they don't need outfitters to hunt. They are there, but trophy hunting isn't big business and Amur tigers are out, whereas lions in Africa are fair game. Or made fair game.   


c - The future of lions in Africa

There are three reasons to be pessimistic about the future of eco systems and apex predators. One reason was mentioined above. Another is population pressure. The last reason is a lack of funding. The only way to prevent a total destruction " ... is for the world to recognise that the great African reserves are true heritage sites and that protection should be paid out of global fundsIf the giga-bucks do not come, then there is no hope ... ".

Quite a statement from a giga-researcher, but that's the way to do business these days. Business? But we was talking Africa, reserves and lions, remember? Yes, but times have changed. In the old days, there was principles acknowledged by many. Today, everything of value has no value. Unless you add it yourself. This means a researcher, no matter how competent, has to include public relations and money to his skills if he wants to get a result. Packer knows. The next step is to contact the World Bank himself: " ... Packer here to talk money ... ".


d - Book

The interview says there is a Packer book available. As I'd like to read a lion book written by a lion, I will order it.
5 users Like peter's post
Reply

United States Pckts Offline
Bigcat Enthusiast
******
#98

@Dr Panthera and I had a bit of a discussion on the same thing, in regards to Packers book "Lions: In the Balance"

I'll post what I wrote there here as well.
http://wildfact.com/forum/topic-book-review?page=3

My 2 Cents

I'd hate to believe that the best chance of saving lions or any species would be killing them....any one of them.
I don't buy into the fact that hunting will generate massive contributions for conservation and in turn, it's a good thing. Killing and Conservation are contradicting things, Eco-tourism generates massive revenues, the money needs to be distributed far better before we declare "monitored hunting" a secret weapon in the protection of an apex predator.
I find it sad that somebody like Packer feels that way, I think it shows just how hopeless he must feel fighting for the rights of the animals he loves so much. I'm sure it goes against his natural instinct but he thinks it could be a better way of getting them the protection they need.
I guess at this stage, animals are lucky to have what little land they have left, if hunting needs to fall under the umbrella of wildlife protection, so be it. But that attitude will have to change at some point, the sense of entitlement and destruction of natural resources will have to stop, all species will gain REAL protection once that happens.
"Imagination was given to man to compensate him for what he is not, and a sense of humor was provided to console him for what he is."
-Oscar Wilde
4 users Like Pckts's post
Reply

United States tigerluver Offline
Prehistoric Feline Expert
*****
Moderators
#99

Phylogeographic Patterns in Africa and High Resolution Delineation of Genetic Clades in the Lion (Panthera leo)
3 users Like tigerluver's post
Reply

Canada GrizzlyClaws Offline
Canine Expert
*****
Moderators

@peter The dentition of some very large Pleistocene lion, and the mandible is about 30 cm.



*This image is copyright of its original author



*This image is copyright of its original author



*This image is copyright of its original author
5 users Like GrizzlyClaws's post
Reply

Netherlands peter Offline
Expert & Researcher
*****
Moderators
( This post was last modified: 10-04-2016, 05:55 AM by peter )

Great photographs (especially the first one) of what seems to be an enormous and massive skull. As the teeth are not very worn, the owner could have been in his prime when he perished. Where was it found and where is it now?
2 users Like peter's post
Reply

Canada GrizzlyClaws Offline
Canine Expert
*****
Moderators

I guess his upper canine teeth are no less than 65 mm from the gum line, and it should be extremely large compared to the modern lions.
2 users Like GrizzlyClaws's post
Reply

Canada GrizzlyClaws Offline
Canine Expert
*****
Moderators

(10-04-2016, 05:54 AM)peter Wrote: Where was it found and where is it now?


By looking at the website, the fossil should mostly belong to the places like France/Netherlands/Germany.


http://www.henskensfossils.nl/fossil%20info.htm
2 users Like GrizzlyClaws's post
Reply

Canada GrizzlyClaws Offline
Canine Expert
*****
Moderators

@peter Some lion canine teeth are shorter, but much more robust in proportion. Are these canine teeth belong to the wild male lions?



*This image is copyright of its original author



*This image is copyright of its original author
4 users Like GrizzlyClaws's post
Reply

Netherlands peter Offline
Expert & Researcher
*****
Moderators
( This post was last modified: 10-09-2016, 04:12 AM by peter )

The difference between skulls of wild and captive big cats is very outspoken, especially in the teeth. There's no question that the upper canines of wild big cats are both longer and more robust (wider at the insertion in the upper jaw) than those of captive big cats. I'm sure the difference between both groups is statistically significant.

Captivity, therefore, has a major effect on the skulls of big cats. For some reason, lions seem more affected than other big cats. When you see a series of skulls of wild and captive lions next to each other, those of captive animals, to a degree, seem to have collapsed. It's almost as if they have received a blow to the top of the skull, resulting in less elevation, more width, less elevation and superfluous growths all over the place. Skulls of captive lions also are much less dense and, therefore, not as heavy. There are plenty of exceptions, but this is what I often saw.     

In some months, when I have more time to post again, I will post a new series of pictures with captive and wild skulls next to each other. All skulls will be roundabout similar in size (greatest total length). I will also add measurements.
3 users Like peter's post
Reply






Users browsing this thread:
2 Guest(s)

About Us
Go Social     Subscribe  

Welcome to WILDFACT forum, a website that focuses on sharing the joy that wildlife has on offer. We welcome all wildlife lovers to join us in sharing that joy. As a member you can share your research, knowledge and experience on animals with the community.
wildfact.com is intended to serve as an online resource for wildlife lovers of all skill levels from beginners to professionals and from all fields that belong to wildlife anyhow. Our focus area is wild animals from all over world. Content generated here will help showcase the work of wildlife experts and lovers to the world. We believe by the help of your informative article and content we will succeed to educate the world, how these beautiful animals are important to survival of all man kind.
Many thanks for visiting wildfact.com. We hope you will keep visiting wildfact regularly and will refer other members who have passion for wildlife.

Forum software by © MyBB