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ON THE EDGE OF EXTINCTION - B - THE LION (Panthera leo)

Guatemala GuateGojira Offline
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#16

The estimated weights came from animals not weighed, the heaviest male in the sample actually weighed was of 500 lb (227 kg).
 
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United States Pckts Offline
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#17

Ya, but I always get thrown off whenever I see the 0 at the end of a weight. Always looks to be a estimate to me. But 227kg for a large lion is definitely possible.
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Guatemala GuateGojira Offline
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#18

Some researchers prefer to use round numbers and round conversions. In that case, the lion could weigh between 495 - 505 lb, but as the scale is moving in some occasions, they just put the number that they think is the correct.

Contrary to this document, modern scales are digitals and show the number of the mass recorded, so they is no need of estimations with the eye. Besides, the weight of the chain and other implements most be subtracted. For example, the famous Amur tiger "Professor" scaled 210 kg in the raw number, but after subtract the implements used they net weight of the animal was of 204 kg.

Plus, conversions are also problematic. Some ones use round numbers (i.e. 570 lb - 260 kg) while others use the most aproximated real value (i.e. 570 lb - 258.5 kg). Modern scales give kilograms, and this is the correct way. Pounds are from the past century.
 
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Australia Richardrli Online
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#19

A new paper published this year on Panthera leo evolutionary history and migrations out of its original African homeland. Guate especially you would be interested. The results confirm a lot of what we already know.
http://www.biomedcentral.com/1471-2148/14/70
 
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India sanjay Offline
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#20

Great Find Richard..
Hope to see more information here by experts...
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United States Pckts Offline
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#21

What source did they use for the lions that are alleged barbary or Iranian, etc...
Also would like to know if they used wild or captive animals as captive or muddy bloodlines and since the only known babrary that exist all come from two animals I would also like to know what DNA they used for that as well.
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United States Pckts Offline
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#22

"Network analyses of North African and Asian cytb sequences show a simple starburst pattern with a basal haplotype shared between North African and Indian lions (Figure 2A). Additional diversity is represented by Iranian lions that share a haplotype separated by a single synonymous mutation from the central Indian haplotype, and a wild-shot North African lion and putative Barbary lion from medieval England that differ by two and three synonymous mutations, respectively. "
Are they saying that indian, north african and Iranian lions are the same?
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Guatemala GuateGojira Offline
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#23

YES [img]images/smilies/tongue.gif[/img]
 
Check this out: "In the tiger, another charismatic felid species, studies of ancient mitochondrial DNA have suggested a close relationship between the extinct central Asian Caspian tiger (Panthera tigris virgata) and the extant Amur tiger (P. t. altaica) [69]. This has allowed conservationists to discuss the translocation of Amur tiger stock to occupy the former range of the Caspian tiger [70], with support from the World Tiger Summit [71]. Similarly, if no examples of purebred Barbary lions can be found within the zoo population, there might be scope for restoration of the North African lion population using the closely related Indian lion."
 
In tigers: Caspian = Amur
In lions: Barbary = Indian
 
There is no need to say more.
 
By the way, very good document Richardrl, TFS.
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United States Pckts Offline
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#24

That certainly seems to seal it.
Guate,
Imagine Asad posting his copy and pasted picture with one out of context sentence attached to it. While actual genetic findings are thrown back at him.
I certainly am glad that this info is not junked on this forum.

 
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Guatemala GuateGojira Offline
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#25

Don't remind me that garbage of poster. He/she was the worst liar that I have ever know. [img]images/smilies/angry.gif[/img]
 
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United States Pckts Offline
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#26

haha I Definitely don't miss those days, thats for sure.
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India sanjay Offline
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#27
( This post was last modified: 06-13-2014, 05:39 PM by sanjay )

Date: April 9, 2014 
Source: Forschungsverbund Berlin e.V. (FVB) 
Summary: Scientists have examined the incidence of skull malformations in lions, a problem known to be responsible for causing neurological diseases and increased mortality. Their results suggest that the occurrence is a consequence of a combination of environmental and genetic factors.

*This image is copyright of its original author


Foramen magnum of lion (Panthera leo) skulls; right: skull of a healthy lion, left: malformed skull.
Credit: Dr. Merav Shamir


Description
An international team of researchers led by scientists from the Hebrew University of Jerusalem and the Leibniz Institute for Zoo and Wildlife Research (IZW) Berlin examined the incidence of skull malformations in lions, a problem known to be responsible for causing neurological diseases and increased mortality. Their results suggest that the occurrence is a consequence of a combination of environmental and genetic factors. These findings were published in the scientific journal PLOS ONE. 

The scientists studied the morphology of 575 lion skulls in museum collections in North America, Europe, Asia, and Africa and noted the incidence of malformations with respect to the death place of lions -- died in the wild or in captivity. The researchers compared the results with skulls of tigers, a similar-sized obligatory carnivorous predator. Whereas tiger skulls of captive origin had a similar incidence of malformations as those of wild origin, large differences occurred between lion skulls from both sources.

Lions have been kept in captivity for centuries and, although they reproduce well, high rates of stillbirths as well as substantial morbidity and mortality of neonates and young lions are reported. Many of these cases were attributed to bone malformations of the skull, including the narrowing of the foramen magnum, the opening at the rear of the skull through which the spinal cord connects to the brain and which can cause associated neurological diseases.

A scientific collaboration between scientists from the Hebrew University of Jerusalem, the IZW Berlin, University of Oxford, the Zoological Center Tel Aviv-Ramat Gan, and the Blue Pearl NYC Veterinary Specialists showed that only 0.4 % of lion skulls from the wild had a narrowing of the foramen magnum whereas the constricted opening of the foramen magnum had a forty-fold higher chance to occur in lion skulls from captivity (15.8 %). Lion skulls from captivity were also wider and had a smaller cranial volume. These findings in lions and their absence in tigers suggest the presence of an interaction of the rearing environment and a heritable predisposition of lions to the pathology. "The morphological changes in many of the lion skulls from captivity suggest that some of these lions possibly died because the hind brain and spinal cord were compressed by abnormal and excessive bone formation in their skulls, resulting in severe neurological abnormalities," says Dr Merav Shamir from the Hebrew University of Jerusalem. "It would be interesting to know whether this is a lion-specific phenomenon. Similar investigations in other big cats would be valuable to answer this question," added Dr Nobuyuki Yamaguchi from the University of Oxford.

This anomalous skull morphology has been documented in captive lion skulls dating back as far as the 15[sup]th[/sup] century, and been the subject of many studies since. "And yet," says Dr Joseph Saragusty from the Leibniz Institute for Zoo and Wildlife Research, " the cause of these morphological changes is still not known. The ongoing loss of captive lions to the disease highlights the need for further investigation with a view to reducing its occurrence."
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United States TheLioness Offline
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#28

Wow thats pretty scary. I wonder if any of the lion skulls used in many different tests i.e. the lion tiger cranial volume one, lion tiger widths and lengths ect. had this disease. I hope they find the cause for it, poor lions. [img]images/smilies/sad.gif[/img]
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Guatemala GuateGojira Offline
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#29
( This post was last modified: 06-15-2014, 09:49 PM by GuateGojira )

Wow, that is terrible for lions. Why lions develop this sickness, in greater degree, while tigers simple not? Why captive lions have smaller brains than wild lions, while captive tigers are almost equal to the wild ones?

Maybe is the origin of the captive lions, maybe is the mix of populations, there is too many space for speculation here.

Let's see what more information we can obtain from these studies.

 
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India sanjay Offline
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#30

Yes, this is still unsolved mystery. Very bad for lions. I think lions are less studied animal compare to tiger. They are very different when compared among cats.
This is my personnel thought. No war plz.
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