There is a world somewhere between reality and fiction. Although ignored by many, it is very real and so are those living in it. This forum is about the natural world. Here, wild animals will be heard and respected. The forum offers a glimpse into an unknown world as well as a room with a view on the present and the future. Anyone able to speak on behalf of those living in the emerald forest and the deep blue sea is invited to join.
09-26-2020, 03:31 AM( This post was last modified: 09-26-2020, 07:08 AM by Balam )
@Pckts indeed, those Chaco jaguars are huge as well and those measurements don't lie, that's why I don't doubt the estimates we got for Aries of 120-130 kg. We also have those huge pugmarks of 15 cm in length from the Argentinian Chaco.
I'm looking forward to seeing more about the measurements of Shaka and Joker. Could you also ask Edu about the state of the captures that were scheduled for this month?
The male 151.353 of 94 kg from Mariana Furtado shall be removed from the table, he is included twice, note the same ID on top of the other.
*This image is copyright of its original author
Check him bellow at the original table of Mariana Furtado on his 2 captures.
*This image is copyright of its original author
Male 151.353
1st capture in December 5th 2004, weighed 94 kg
2nd capture in March 30th 2006, weighed 96 kg
Thus lets keep him on his second capture and remove his first one with 94kg.
ALSO I just noticed the Cerrado males IDed as 151.633 (2), 150.260 (2) and Macharão (2) they shall be removed too from the Cerrado jags table, For the same reasons of the pantanal male above. they captured twice in different times.
The Pantanal table have 59# jaguars. without the Moreira sourced male ( which is Matheus Manco already included ) and this male 151.353.
(09-26-2020, 06:26 PM)Balam Wrote: I have made a couple of changes to the table.
First of all, I eliminated the repeated jaguar by Furtado as Dark Jaguar stated. I also deleted the capture from Moreira, for some reason as I was reviewing the table and something told me to ensure that said jaguar was not an individual already captured before, so I went to the original post as I had doubts it might've been Matheus and then I reread a previous post by Dark Jaguar on here where it confirmed it was him, I had skipped that portion of the post and was unaware of it.
Finally, I added the proper source for the 142 kg jaguar from northern Pantanal and changed the link to the name of the organization that captured it which is Panthera. A few things about this capture that I want to comment on is that much like Lopez, this jaguar topped the scale to the max at 315 lbs or 142 kg, meaning it could've been heavier than that. But for now, we'll retain the value of 142 kg as that is the official value stated by Panthera. Video of the capture.
The direct link to te updated table can be found in the Index thread, so to those looking for the updated version please visit the thread. I'm gonna post the updated one here to avoid confusion, but for future updates please check the indexed post. The sample remains at 59 animals after the deductions I made today:
The cerrado jaguars table will be down to 13 individuals, Hopefully in the future we'll get more cerrado males, I still didn't give up to find out Rogério size as we already know he is in the 100's kg range.
09-26-2020, 06:45 PM( This post was last modified: 09-26-2020, 06:49 PM by Dark Jaguar )
(09-26-2020, 06:39 PM)Balam Wrote:
(09-26-2020, 06:35 PM)Dark Jaguar Wrote: The cerrado jaguars table will be down to 13 individuals, Hopefully in the future we'll get more cerrado males, I still didn't give up to find out Rogério size as we already know he is in the 100's kg range.
I'm guessing some males are being repeated, let me know so we can make the changes. It'd be amazing not only to get Rogerio's but also that cattle-killing male I mentioned to you a couple of months ago. I'm aware that convincing IOP to release this data will be hard, but hopefully we can get it.
the Cerrado males to be removed are the ones IDed as 151.633 (2), 150.260 (2) and Macharão (2).
Could you believe I even tried to get cerrado jaguars size like Rogério,Patrícia,Ariane... by the vet guy from IOP ??
but I got nothing.
Its incredible how hard it is to get info from them, its almost impossible.
that cerrado male captured in 2014 with the carcass is definitely larger than Tiago IMO.
09-26-2020, 07:01 PM( This post was last modified: 09-26-2020, 07:03 PM by Dark Jaguar )
(09-26-2020, 06:53 PM)Balam Wrote:
(09-26-2020, 06:45 PM)Dark Jaguar Wrote:
(09-26-2020, 06:39 PM)Balam Wrote:
(09-26-2020, 06:35 PM)Dark Jaguar Wrote: The cerrado jaguars table will be down to 13 individuals, Hopefully in the future we'll get more cerrado males, I still didn't give up to find out Rogério size as we already know he is in the 100's kg range.
I'm guessing some males are being repeated, let me know so we can make the changes. It'd be amazing not only to get Rogerio's but also that cattle-killing male I mentioned to you a couple of months ago. I'm aware that convincing IOP to release this data will be hard, but hopefully we can get it.
the Cerrado males to be removed are the ones IDed as 151.633 (2), 150.260 (2) and Macharão (2).
Could you believe I even tried to get cerrado jaguars size like Rogério,Patrícia,Ariane... by the vet guy from IOP ??
but I got nothing.
Its incredible how hard it is to get info from them, its almost impossible.
that cerrado male captured in 2014 with the carcass is definitely larger than Tiago IMO.
With the deduction of the repeated captures the average is 100 kg, which I think is accurate for this population and not for Pantanal ones as some people keep trying to push (but let me not get into this again lol). Anyways, let's hope for more weights to be released so this table can fill up nicely.
Btw, if you are frustrated by the secrecy of IOP, imagine how I'm feeling after trying for months to get the weights for Aurora jaguars from Panthera and them refusing to provide them, it's killing me, I want to start working on the Llanos table immediately.
*This image is copyright of its original author
What surprises me the most above all this is that the weight is just the basic data, there's no harm letting other people know it, they could just answer by taping the number of the weight of the animal like ''***kg'' and thats all, thats all we want. its so simple but yet we get refused by most in every way by unknown reasons (maybe bad mood?? ).
Even at title with the animal there's no harm saying how many kg it weighed. Many years back I thought getting the weight of the captured animals would be the easiest data to get for being the basic one, but I was wrong.
But I am not giving up and I'll bombard them with these same questions as much as possible until they release it. Even already knowing they won't.
09-26-2020, 07:48 PM( This post was last modified: 09-26-2020, 07:50 PM by Dark Jaguar )
(09-26-2020, 06:26 PM)Balam Wrote: I have made a couple of changes to the table.
First of all, I eliminated the repeated jaguar by Furtado as Dark Jaguar stated. I also deleted the capture from Moreira, for some reason as I was reviewing the table and something told me to ensure that said jaguar was not an individual already captured before, so I went to the original post as I had doubts it might've been Matheus and then I reread a previous post by Dark Jaguar on here where it confirmed it was him, I had skipped that portion of the post and was unaware of it.
Finally, I added the proper source for the 142 kg jaguar from northern Pantanal and changed the link to the name of the organization that captured it which is Panthera. A few things about this capture that I want to comment on is that much like Lopez, this jaguar topped the scale to the max at 315 lbs or 142 kg, meaning it could've been heavier than that. But for now, we'll retain the value of 142 kg as that is the official value stated by Panthera. Video of the capture.
The direct link to te updated table can be found in the Index thread, so to those looking for the updated version please visit the thread. I'm gonna post the updated one here to avoid confusion, but for future updates please check the indexed post. The sample remains at 59 animals after the deductions I made today:
(09-26-2020, 06:26 PM)Balam Wrote: I have made a couple of changes to the table.
First of all, I eliminated the repeated jaguar by Furtado as Dark Jaguar stated. I also deleted the capture from Moreira, for some reason as I was reviewing the table and something told me to ensure that said jaguar was not an individual already captured before, so I went to the original post as I had doubts it might've been Matheus and then I reread a previous post by Dark Jaguar on here where it confirmed it was him, I had skipped that portion of the post and was unaware of it.
Finally, I added the proper source for the 142 kg jaguar from northern Pantanal and changed the link to the name of the organization that captured it which is Panthera. A few things about this capture that I want to comment on is that much like Lopez, this jaguar topped the scale to the max at 315 lbs or 142 kg, meaning it could've been heavier than that. But for now, we'll retain the value of 142 kg as that is the official value stated by Panthera. Video of the capture.
The direct link to te updated table can be found in the Index thread, so to those looking for the updated version please visit the thread. I'm gonna post the updated one here to avoid confusion, but for future updates please check the indexed post. The sample remains at 59 animals after the deductions I made today:
(09-26-2020, 03:07 AM)Pckts Wrote: Nvm, I found the form for darting measurements.
*This image is copyright of its original author
For Comparison, Here's Joker
Joker was 236 cm long (from the head to the tip of the tail), 76 cm tall, 126 cm of chest circumference, 66 cm of neck circumference
Since we don't have his Head Circumference, we're unable to get a full score. But with his body and chest he'd be 141.9" without his head but we can use Shaka's head and add it.
Shaka's Score Shaka's body measured 237 cm in length (head: 37 cm, body: 135, tail: 65) Chest circumference: 108, neck: 64
Shaka's Score is 150.3" Joker's Score w/Shaka's Head is 156.46"
*One quick side note before we compare exactly* I'm asking Edu to provide both Shaka and Jokers head circumference so we can be sure I'm using the right measurement. Because I think the 37cm is just the length of head not width. I'll confirm that when he gets back to me.
I'm still waiting to here back from Edu but I'm going to use Almeida's head circumference info.
Almeida's info below:
*This image is copyright of its original author
Even if we use the average head circumference of 27.77" which im sure Joker is larger than that, his score would still be a massive 169" which would surpass any of the Chaco Males scores from darting.
I did not know where to post this. Sorry for the inconvenience
I recently started my own youtube channel !
I asked for permission to use from another youtuber for my first video and the second video (this one) is mine. I took it 7 days ago at the Granby Zoo, Qc, Canada
Enjoy and don't forget to like or subscribe [don't want to be egoist with that, but ille say it anyways]
@Balam the jaguar on the video is a jaguaress, right ?
Others picture i took of the jaguars (they were and are 3)
*This image is copyright of its original author
Quote:
^this one is certainly a male. He dwarf the jaguaress of the video. She joined him at one point and the size difference was really obvious.
*This image is copyright of its original author
Quote:^Female of the video
*This image is copyright of its original author
Quote:"Female from the video"
*This image is copyright of its original author
Quote:"Female from the video"
*This image is copyright of its original author
Quote:"Female from the video"
*This image is copyright of its original author
Quote:"Female of the video tail's" & what i assume to be a male [the third jaguar of the exhibit]"
I did not know where to post this. Sorry for the inconvenience
I recently started my own youtube channel !
I asked for permission to use from another youtuber for my first video and the second video (this one) is mine. I took it 7 days ago at the Granby Zoo, Qc, Canada
Enjoy and don't forget to like or subscribe [don't want to be egoist with that, but ille say it anyways]
@Balam the jaguar on the video is a jaguaress, right ?
Others picture i took of the jaguars (they were and are 3)
*This image is copyright of its original author
Quote:
^this one is certainly a male. He dwarf the jaguaress of the video. She joined him at one point and the size difference was really obvious.
*This image is copyright of its original author
Quote:^Female of the video
*This image is copyright of its original author
Quote:"Female from the video"
*This image is copyright of its original author
Quote:"Female from the video"
*This image is copyright of its original author
Quote:"Female from the video"
*This image is copyright of its original author
Quote:"Female of the video tail's" & what i assume to be a male [the third jaguar of the exhibit]"
*This image is copyright of its original author
Quote:"Female from the video"
Really nice picture Christopher, I'm sure that's a female and my guess is that most of their genotype comes from Central America or Mexico. This is the perfect thread to share your videos and pictures. I might take a walk at the zoo here in Toronto as well now that I'm seeing your pictures, there's also a sanctuary in the province that has the only lion-jaguar hybrids.
A bit more photos on Thor male's capture in order to collect his semen.
Credits: Richard Rasmussen who also followed the capture.
Gediendson - ''The capture is the most important moment we observed on these animals but in reality on the case of the Jaguar, it will want to charge at us.''.
(09-29-2020, 05:01 PM)Dark Jaguar Wrote: A bit more photos on Thor male's capture in order to collect his semen.
Credits: Richard Rasmussen who also followed the capture.
Gediendson - ''The capture is the most important moment we observed on these animals but in reality on the case of the Jaguar, it will want to charge at us.''.
*This image is copyright of its original author
*This image is copyright of its original author
*This image is copyright of its original author
Measurements taken.
*This image is copyright of its original author
*This image is copyright of its original author
*This image is copyright of its original author
Here's the best moment of the capture.
*This image is copyright of its original author
*This image is copyright of its original author
*This image is copyright of its original author
*This image is copyright of its original author
*This image is copyright of its original author
*This image is copyright of its original author
I hope that's not how they take their shoulder height measurements.
(09-29-2020, 05:01 PM)Dark Jaguar Wrote: A bit more photos on Thor male's capture in order to collect his semen.
Credits: Richard Rasmussen who also followed the capture.
Gediendson - ''The capture is the most important moment we observed on these animals but in reality on the case of the Jaguar, it will want to charge at us.''.
*This image is copyright of its original author
*This image is copyright of its original author
*This image is copyright of its original author
Measurements taken.
*This image is copyright of its original author
*This image is copyright of its original author
*This image is copyright of its original author
Here's the best moment of the capture.
*This image is copyright of its original author
*This image is copyright of its original author
*This image is copyright of its original author
*This image is copyright of its original author
*This image is copyright of its original author
*This image is copyright of its original author
I hope that's not how they take their shoulder height measurements.
That scene also drew my attention and by that moment unfortunately Richard's edited video cutted it.
That's an awkward way to take the measurement
They should learn with Peter Crawshaw how to take proper measurements hehe.
10-01-2020, 02:02 PM( This post was last modified: 10-01-2020, 06:09 PM by Dark Jaguar )
After the adjustments were made to the tables now having 13 individuals on the Cerrado male jaguars table and 59 individuals on the Pantanal males table I managed to show the Pantanal males table to Tortato.
I mentioned to him with the datas we collected The mean size at Minimum is 110 kg on average for Pantanal males.
I also told him that I made sure to also add the small healthy males in order to balance the table and not include only big ones and yet the average scored 110 kg.
Here's what he said about the table.
''Cool compilation of datas, and that's right! Its impressive them having 110 kg on average.''
with the contact I got with Brasília é o Bicho I just got the response of one member who followed Xangô male's captures and she said he was captured 8 times and one of his captures he weighed 104 kg on his highest weight, so Xangô weight on the cerrado table should be now 104 kg.
Modern Weights and Measurements of Jaguars
).
