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Modern Weights and Measurements of Jaguars

Brazil Dark Jaguar Offline
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( This post was last modified: 09-26-2020, 07:33 PM by Dark Jaguar )

(09-26-2020, 07:23 PM)Balam Wrote:
(09-26-2020, 07:15 PM)Dark Jaguar Wrote:
(09-26-2020, 07:09 PM)Balam Wrote:
(09-26-2020, 07:05 PM)Dark Jaguar Wrote: The cerrado jaguars table will be down to 13 individuals, Hopefully in the future we'll get more cerrado males, I still didn't give up to find out Rogério size as we already know he is in the 100's kg range.

I'm guessing some males are being repeated, let me know so we can make the changes. It'd be amazing not only to get Rogerio's but also that cattle-killing male I mentioned to you a couple of months ago. I'm aware that convincing IOP to release this data will be hard, but hopefully we can get it.


the Cerrado males to be removed are the ones IDed as 151.633 (2), 150.260 (2) and Macharão (2).


Could you believe I even tried to get cerrado jaguars size like Rogério,Patrícia,Ariane... by the vet guy from IOP ??  Funny  

but I got nothing.

Its incredible how hard it is to get info from them, its almost impossible.



that cerrado male captured in 2014 with the carcass is definitely larger than Tiago IMO.

With the deduction of the repeated captures the average is 100 kg, which I think is accurate for this population and not for Pantanal ones as some people keep trying to push (but let me not get into this again lol). Anyways, let's hope for more weights to be released so this table can fill up nicely.

Btw, if you are frustrated by the secrecy of IOP, imagine how I'm feeling after trying for months to get the weights for Aurora jaguars from Panthera and them refusing to provide them, it's killing me, I want to start working on the Llanos table immediately. 


*This image is copyright of its original author


What surprises me the most above all this is that the weight is just the basic data, there's no harm letting other people know it, they could just answer by taping the number of the weight of the animal like ''***kg'' and thats all, thats all we want. its so simple but yet we get refused by most in every way by unknown reasons (maybe bad mood?? Grin ).

Even at title with the animal there's no harm saying how many kg it weighed. Many years back I thought getting the weight of the captured animals would be the easiest data to get for being the basic one, but I was wrong.

But I am not giving up and I'll bombard them with these same questions as much as possible until they release it. Even already knowing they won't.
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Brazil Dark Jaguar Offline
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( This post was last modified: 09-26-2020, 08:20 PM by Dark Jaguar )

(09-26-2020, 06:56 PM)Balam Wrote: I have made a couple of changes to the table.

First of all, I eliminated the repeated jaguar by Furtado as Dark Jaguar stated. I also deleted the capture from Moreira, for some reason as I was reviewing the table and something told me to ensure that said jaguar was not an individual already captured before, so I went to the original post as I had doubts it might've been Matheus and then I reread a previous post by Dark Jaguar on here where it confirmed it was him, I had skipped that portion of the post and was unaware of it.
Finally, I added the proper source for the 142 kg jaguar from northern Pantanal and changed the link to the name of the organization that captured it which is Panthera. A few things about this capture that I want to comment on is that much like Lopez, this jaguar topped the scale to the max at 315 lbs or 142 kg, meaning it could've been heavier than that. But for now, we'll retain the value of 142 kg as that is the official value stated by Panthera. Video of the capture.

The direct link to te updated table can be found in the Index thread, so to those looking for the updated version please visit the thread. I'm gonna post the updated one here to avoid confusion, but for future updates please check the indexed post. The sample remains at 59 animals after the deductions I made today:


*This image is copyright of its original author


@Balam

could you send me the link of the Index Thread where the pantanal/cerrado tables are?? I can't find it.
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Canada Balam Offline
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(09-26-2020, 08:18 PM)Dark Jaguar Wrote:
(09-26-2020, 06:56 PM)Balam Wrote: I have made a couple of changes to the table.

First of all, I eliminated the repeated jaguar by Furtado as Dark Jaguar stated. I also deleted the capture from Moreira, for some reason as I was reviewing the table and something told me to ensure that said jaguar was not an individual already captured before, so I went to the original post as I had doubts it might've been Matheus and then I reread a previous post by Dark Jaguar on here where it confirmed it was him, I had skipped that portion of the post and was unaware of it.
Finally, I added the proper source for the 142 kg jaguar from northern Pantanal and changed the link to the name of the organization that captured it which is Panthera. A few things about this capture that I want to comment on is that much like Lopez, this jaguar topped the scale to the max at 315 lbs or 142 kg, meaning it could've been heavier than that. But for now, we'll retain the value of 142 kg as that is the official value stated by Panthera. Video of the capture.

The direct link to te updated table can be found in the Index thread, so to those looking for the updated version please visit the thread. I'm gonna post the updated one here to avoid confusion, but for future updates please check the indexed post. The sample remains at 59 animals after the deductions I made today:


*This image is copyright of its original author


@Balam

could you send me the link of the Index Thread where the pantanal/cerrado tables are?? I can't find it.

Here
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United States Pckts Offline
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(09-26-2020, 03:37 AM)Pckts Wrote: Nvm, I found the form for darting measurements.

*This image is copyright of its original author


For Comparison, Here's Joker

Joker was 236 cm long (from the head to the tip of the tail), 76 cm tall, 126 cm of chest circumference, 66 cm of neck circumference

Since we don't have his Head Circumference, we're unable to get a full score.
But with his body and chest he'd be 141.9" without his head but we can use Shaka's head and add it.

Shaka's Score
Shaka's body measured 237 cm in length (head: 37 cm, body: 135, tail: 65)
Chest circumference: 108, neck: 64

Shaka's Score is 150.3"
Joker's Score w/Shaka's Head is 156.46"

*One quick side note before we compare exactly*
I'm asking Edu to provide both Shaka and Jokers head circumference so we can be sure I'm using the right measurement. Because I think the 37cm is just the length of head not width. 
I'll confirm that when he gets back to me. 

I'm still waiting to here back from Edu but I'm going to use Almeida's head circumference info.

Almeida's info below:

*This image is copyright of its original author

Even if we use the average head circumference of 27.77" which im sure Joker is larger than that, his score would still be a massive 169" which would surpass any of the Chaco Males scores from darting.
"Imagination was given to man to compensate him for what he is not, and a sense of humor was provided to console him for what he is."
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Canada TheNormalGuy Offline
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I did not know where to post this. Sorry for the inconvenience

I recently started my own youtube channel !

I asked for permission to use from another youtuber for my first video and the second video (this one) is mine. I took it 7 days ago at the Granby Zoo, Qc, Canada

Enjoy and don't forget to like or subscribe [don't want to be egoist with that, but ille say it anyways]










@Balam the jaguar on the video is a jaguaress, right ? 

Others picture i took of the jaguars (they were and are 3)


*This image is copyright of its original author

Quote:
^this one is certainly a male. He dwarf the jaguaress of the video. She joined him at one point and the size difference was really obvious.


*This image is copyright of its original author
Quote:^Female of the video

*This image is copyright of its original author
Quote:"Female from the video"


*This image is copyright of its original author
Quote:"Female from the video"

*This image is copyright of its original author
Quote:"Female from the video"

*This image is copyright of its original author
Quote:"Female of the video tail's" & what i assume to be a male [the third jaguar of the exhibit]"

*This image is copyright of its original author
Quote:"Female from the video"
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Canada Balam Offline
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(09-28-2020, 09:49 AM)TheNormalGuy Wrote:
I did not know where to post this. Sorry for the inconvenience

I recently started my own youtube channel !

I asked for permission to use from another youtuber for my first video and the second video (this one) is mine. I took it 7 days ago at the Granby Zoo, Qc, Canada

Enjoy and don't forget to like or subscribe [don't want to be egoist with that, but ille say it anyways]










@Balam the jaguar on the video is a jaguaress, right ? 

Others picture i took of the jaguars (they were and are 3)


*This image is copyright of its original author

Quote:
^this one is certainly a male. He dwarf the jaguaress of the video. She joined him at one point and the size difference was really obvious.


*This image is copyright of its original author
Quote:^Female of the video

*This image is copyright of its original author
Quote:"Female from the video"


*This image is copyright of its original author
Quote:"Female from the video"

*This image is copyright of its original author
Quote:"Female from the video"

*This image is copyright of its original author
Quote:"Female of the video tail's" & what i assume to be a male [the third jaguar of the exhibit]"

*This image is copyright of its original author
Quote:"Female from the video"


Really nice picture Christopher, I'm sure that's a female and my guess is that most of their genotype comes from Central America or Mexico. This is the perfect thread to share your videos and pictures. I might take a walk at the zoo here in Toronto as well now that I'm seeing your pictures, there's also a sanctuary in the province that has the only lion-jaguar hybrids.
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Brazil Dark Jaguar Offline
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A bit more photos on Thor male's capture in order to collect his semen.

Credits: Richard Rasmussen who also followed the capture.



Gediendson - ''The capture is the most important moment we observed on these animals but in reality on the case of the Jaguar, it will want to charge at us.''.


*This image is copyright of its original author



*This image is copyright of its original author



*This image is copyright of its original author




Measurements taken.


*This image is copyright of its original author



*This image is copyright of its original author



*This image is copyright of its original author





Here's the best moment of the capture.


*This image is copyright of its original author



*This image is copyright of its original author






*This image is copyright of its original author



*This image is copyright of its original author



*This image is copyright of its original author



*This image is copyright of its original author
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United States Pckts Offline
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(09-29-2020, 05:31 PM)Dark Jaguar Wrote: A bit more photos on Thor male's capture in order to collect his semen.

Credits: Richard Rasmussen who also followed the capture.



Gediendson - ''The capture is the most important moment we observed on these animals but in reality on the case of the Jaguar, it will want to charge at us.''.


*This image is copyright of its original author



*This image is copyright of its original author



*This image is copyright of its original author




Measurements taken.


*This image is copyright of its original author



*This image is copyright of its original author



*This image is copyright of its original author





Here's the best moment of the capture.


*This image is copyright of its original author



*This image is copyright of its original author






*This image is copyright of its original author



*This image is copyright of its original author



*This image is copyright of its original author



*This image is copyright of its original author
I hope that's not how they take their shoulder height measurements.
"Imagination was given to man to compensate him for what he is not, and a sense of humor was provided to console him for what he is."
-Oscar Wilde
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Brazil Dark Jaguar Offline
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(09-29-2020, 06:34 PM)Pckts Wrote:
(09-29-2020, 05:31 PM)Dark Jaguar Wrote: A bit more photos on Thor male's capture in order to collect his semen.

Credits: Richard Rasmussen who also followed the capture.



Gediendson - ''The capture is the most important moment we observed on these animals but in reality on the case of the Jaguar, it will want to charge at us.''.


*This image is copyright of its original author



*This image is copyright of its original author



*This image is copyright of its original author




Measurements taken.


*This image is copyright of its original author



*This image is copyright of its original author



*This image is copyright of its original author





Here's the best moment of the capture.


*This image is copyright of its original author



*This image is copyright of its original author






*This image is copyright of its original author



*This image is copyright of its original author



*This image is copyright of its original author



*This image is copyright of its original author
I hope that's not how they take their shoulder height measurements.


That scene also drew my attention and by that moment unfortunately Richard's edited video cutted it.

That's an awkward way to take the measurement

They should learn with Peter Crawshaw how to take proper measurements hehe.
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Brazil Dark Jaguar Offline
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( This post was last modified: 10-01-2020, 06:39 PM by Dark Jaguar )

After the adjustments were made to the tables now having 13 individuals on the Cerrado male jaguars table and 59 individuals on the Pantanal males table I managed to show the Pantanal males table to Tortato.

I mentioned to him with the datas we collected The mean size at Minimum is 110 kg on average for Pantanal males.

I also told him that I made sure to also add the small healthy males in order to balance the table and not include only big ones and yet the average scored 110 kg.

Here's what he said about the table.

''Cool compilation of datas, and that's right! Its impressive them having 110 kg on average.''


*This image is copyright of its original author






@Balam

with the contact I got with Brasília é o Bicho I just got the response of one member who followed Xangô male's captures and she said he was captured 8 times and one of his captures he weighed 104 kg on his highest weight, so Xangô weight on the cerrado table should be now 104 kg.
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Canada Balam Offline
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@Dark Jaguar regarding Xango's weight, we should try to contact NEX to get a confirmation for the weight change as they themselves published the previous measurement. That way we can have a concrete value and avoid going back and forth with the editing of the table.
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Brazil Dark Jaguar Offline
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@Balam

NEX the Institution is not gonna respond anything, the info I got is 100 % accurate since Brasília é o Bicho passed me the personal contact of The biologist Marina Carvalho herself that I am in contact with, she works at NEX and was part of all Xangô's captures process and procedures.

She is now the one and only source of info I got for cerrado jaguars, since Leandro Silveira won't share anything of his datas.

About the tables adjustments back and fourth thats how it works, if needed it'll always have to be adjusted in order to get the most accurate datas as possible and by that process erasing the prior ones, these changes happens.

Also in cases when you're busy and not available I would like to get the passwords to change and modify both tables myself so I won't need to be tagging you all the time to ask for updates. But in case you got enough time to switch it all on yourself, I will have to tag you as many times as it takes.

All these changes are for the good of the tables to be the best as possible, Marina already saw the Cerrado jags table and corrected Xangô's weight herself.


Marina at NEX Sanctuary with Puma cub.


*This image is copyright of its original author




Marina with Xangô Cerrado male on his 5th capture.


*This image is copyright of its original author
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Canada Balam Offline
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@Dark Jaguar that's ok, I just needed to be assured she was a reliable source and happens to be an amazing one. I'll share the Cerrado table with you later today through PM and I'll keep the Pantanal one, that way we can split time in editing. Do you know if she's aware of any other capture that we can add to the table?
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Brazil Dark Jaguar Offline
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( This post was last modified: 10-01-2020, 08:55 PM by Dark Jaguar )

(10-01-2020, 08:36 PM)Balam Wrote: @Dark Jaguar that's ok, I just needed to be assured she was a reliable source and happens to be an amazing one. I'll share the Cerrado table with you later today through PM and I'll keep the Pantanal one, that way we can split time in editing. Do you know if she's aware of any other capture that we can add to the table?

Back in 2017 There was another cerrado jaguar they planned to capture you already know him, I posted on the Jaguars of Brazil thread, the dark jaguar didn't step on the loops traps they left and the project had terminated without his capture sadly.

Fábio Soares told me when they get more resources there should be more captures.

But now NEX is very busy with the bruised and injured jaguars coming all the way from Pantanal to be treated and these plans shall be pushed to the future and also with more resources.

I will ask her if she knows some of the cerrado jaguars sizes down south captured by IOP, she probably doesn't know but I will ask anyway.
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Brazil Dark Jaguar Offline
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( This post was last modified: 10-10-2020, 07:41 AM by Dark Jaguar )

UPDATED CERRADO MALE JAGUARS TABLE.



*This image is copyright of its original author





13 individuals and the year of Macharrão male's capture that was recently published by IOP.
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