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Mangheni Pride
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Its indeed unintentional on the males end. They may not even have been directly involved as even distant roars or lingering scents would have been enough.
We saw the same thing when OM died and the PCmales became territorial in the north. The pride found their usual areas getting a bit to crowded with unfamiliar lions so they made these excursions all the way to the south hoping to avoid the PCmales and find some calmer grasslands. Except this time, they ran into a rival pride instead.  (08-05-2024, 08:23 PM)Cath2020 Wrote: Which adult lioness was seen with the 8 cubs? No ID (or pics or videos) have been shared of them. But it’s been said Tumbela was among the sighting. The lionesses could very well have been temporarily split in the ruckus…..let’s hope they reunite soon and the toll stays at two. I would be devastated to hear the loss of any of their adults after so much loss and turmoil already. This Pride needs a miracle please. 
I hate to be the one to say it, but I can only see the pride losing more youngsters from here as long as PCMs stay away from them, and it seems like they will. I know them running into Kambulas is such a rare incident but they can’t stay fending off all these different males, if they are to stick around. Losing the cubs is truly already a tragedy but let’s hope all the females can hang on. As bad as it sounds, cubs are dispensable.
That now makes it 1 female and 1 male cub believed to be dead right?  (08-05-2024, 10:34 PM)KM600 Wrote: I hate to be the one to say it, but I can only see the pride losing more youngsters from here as long as PCMs stay away from them, and it seems like they will. I know them running into Kambulas is such a rare incident but they can’t stay fending off all these different males, if they are to stick around. Losing the cubs is truly already a tragedy but let’s hope all the females can hang on. As bad as it sounds, cubs are dispensable. Losing cubs and subs is "normal" for every pride, even most strongest and successfull ones. We know that these stuff will happen, theres no pride who can raise all cubs to adulthood. Just in recent years, prides like Talamatis, NKuhumas, Styxs had 10+ cubs/subs, only about half (or less) of them reached, or will reach adulthood. Kambulas where a bit more successfull with Bboys offspring, but they also lost few subs, and all of 2nd generation. Obiviously we want that all cubs survive, but thats not realistic in the wild. If Mhangenis can get half of them to adulthood, thats success, especially if there will be few females. 
There is always an off chance, after they bumped into Kambulas and got chased back, they might have split in the confusion or a lioness of two split off willingly to keep away the males (Nkhuma and Talamati) far enough from the pride while the other lioness leads the subs away from them (like her (great) grandmother did with original (or founding if you want) Mhangeni lionesses (ex Tsalalas). But they would be acting very quickly if that is the case. Anyway they have lot of problems on their hands either way as ideally they would like to get rid of separate group of males (A. Nkuhuma and Talamati, B. Tumbela C. South Avoca if he is around/comes back), can't lead them off all and still sustain so many cubs through hunting. At least it is not 9 male subs to feed this time but only 5, if not fewer already (on the other hand Tumbela's share compensates for that).
 (08-05-2024, 11:40 PM)Tr1x24 Wrote:I wouldn’t say normal but it’ll happen when no strong coalition is protecting the pride then it’s normal but for a pride with a strong coalition protecting the pride it’s not normal but a unprotected pride it is normal to lose cubs look unless it’s buffalo hunting or prides with a same dominant males that’s different and almost uncontrollable but if the plains camp males had done their job then the mhangenis would be fine but no I’m not hating on them lmao but it’s disappointing, talamati nkuhuma and Styx all had a problem that’s why they suffered but kambulas had a strong coalition of 4 then 3 and 2 and it wasn’t until tinyo went missing that stuff started to “hit the fan”(08-05-2024, 10:34 PM)KM600 Wrote: I hate to be the one to say it, but I can only see the pride losing more youngsters from here as long as PCMs stay away from them, and it seems like they will. I know them running into Kambulas is such a rare incident but they can’t stay fending off all these different males, if they are to stick around. Losing the cubs is truly already a tragedy but let’s hope all the females can hang on. As bad as it sounds, cubs are dispensable. (08-06-2024, 01:23 AM)Ttimemarti Wrote: I wouldn’t say normal but it’ll happen when no strong coalition is protecting the pride then it’s normal but for a pride with a strong coalition protecting the pride it’s not normal but a unprotected pride it is normal to lose cubs look unless it’s buffalo hunting or prides with a same dominant males that’s different and almost uncontrollable but if the plains camp males had done their job then the mhangenis would be fine but no I’m not hating on them lmao but it’s disappointing, talamati nkuhuma and Styx all had a problem that’s why they suffered but kambulas had a strong coalition of 4 then 3 and 2 and it wasn’t until tinyo went missing that stuff started to “hit the fan” In the bigger picture, on average, only about 2-3 out of 10 cubs reach adulthood. So without speciffically looking at certain prides, its pretty normal that majoritiy of cubs/subs dont make it. (08-06-2024, 01:42 AM)Tr1x24 Wrote:True I see what you’re saying but it just depends on the situation to be honest if it’s stable or not(08-06-2024, 01:23 AM)Ttimemarti Wrote: I wouldn’t say normal but it’ll happen when no strong coalition is protecting the pride then it’s normal but for a pride with a strong coalition protecting the pride it’s not normal but a unprotected pride it is normal to lose cubs look unless it’s buffalo hunting or prides with a same dominant males that’s different and almost uncontrollable but if the plains camp males had done their job then the mhangenis would be fine but no I’m not hating on them lmao but it’s disappointing, talamati nkuhuma and Styx all had a problem that’s why they suffered but kambulas had a strong coalition of 4 then 3 and 2 and it wasn’t until tinyo went missing that stuff started to “hit the fan”
The current issues with the male lions aside. Their main issue is going to be food and with 10 hungry mouths incapable of hunting their own food. It all comes down to the few remaining adults.
It was a given there were struggles ahead and even before this clash there were already concerns about the wellbeing of some of the cubs. So it was already unlikely all of them would make it. Aslong there aren't any further clashes or issues and not any adults turn up death. They still are set to raise plenty of cubs to adulthood and the current adults are still very young so should still have a few litters in them. So the pride is not on the verge of going extinct, like several of the prides around them. The main problem is finding a good set of males that aren't scared of a good fight and wont abandon them for other prides. Right now there aren't any candidates in the region I would trust with the responsibilities. Perhaps the Gijimas, should the Nkhulus drive them out next year or so.
Reports from the Singita región are saying that the Mangheni Pride has now regrouped and 11 members seen together.
Seems the toll of losses is only the two youngsters (1M/1F)  (08-06-2024, 08:00 PM)criollo2mil Wrote: Reports from the Singita región are saying that the Mangheni Pride has now regrouped and 11 members seen together. As sad as it is, the loss of the two cubs, the fact that it was not a whole lot worse is certainly something to be happy about, for the whole of the pride. 
@criollo2mil is the dead male cub the one from the photos? If so does that mean the youngest cub is alive? Coz that dead cub wasn't him, #10's fur is darker and the face different.
 (08-06-2024, 08:00 PM)criollo2mil Wrote: Reports from the Singita región are saying that the Mangheni Pride has now regrouped and 11 members seen together. With being trailed by unfamiliar males and clashing with rival prides, the Mangheni pride's losses could have been a lot worse than what they are currently. (08-06-2024, 08:18 PM)Mapokser Wrote: @criollo2mil is the dead male cub the one from the photos? If so does that mean the youngest cub is alive? Coz that dead cub wasn't him, #10's fur is darker and the face different. The one from the photos is a female (daughter of Big Boy Sister). #10 from all accounts is still alive. So the other male lost was one of their 18 month olds.
It's very sad what happened, just after the miracle of the missing cub returning and all 10 being accounted, still, admittedly, I'm happy that #10 is seemingly alive, as his my favorite. He must have been lucky as he is way younger and not as fast as his siblings.
1F and 1M down, giving the circumstances, I guess it was also luck, it could have been way worse, I wish the PCM would meet them, return to the south, make sure they are well protected. 4F and 4M are still enough to rebuild the pride well and have a strong coalition in the future, with 4 males, but the thing is, actually getting all 8 cubs to adulthood without their fathers' help and with Tumbela and Talamati/NK around will be very difficult, the loss of the 2 elder females was too much of a strong blow to the pride, I always knew they'd need those 2 around until the cubs were at least 2yo. They'd probably not have lost cubs with 5 healthy females still kicking. |
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