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(11-27-2019, 06:20 PM)Potato Wrote: Confrontation with Charlestones was in july 2018. Avocas are born in early 2013 so I would argue if Avoca's age can be excuse. "Based on what you think that Charlestons are higher lvl then Bboys??" Mainly on size difference ( Charlestones were always considered very big males, when BBoys... well I know there is myth that they are big, but so far from what I heard from guides speaking about their size it is just a myth. Nhenha may be over avarage, but he is no near Charlestons size, not even speaking about Tinyo. Second think is their resume. Charlestons no doubt proved themselfs, when BBoys weren't really been ever tested by enemy coalition.
What comes to Tsalala vs Avoca there you can see full raport if you are intrested: https://www.lionsands.com/2018/04/two-contending-coalitions/
Well beign 5 1/2 years old,against big 8 yrs old males in their prime certantly mattered,from the age perpective.
For the size difference, Charleston Big Boy is one of the biggest lions around yes,but i think Mazino and Nhenha are similar,and Tinyo isnt that smaller from Nhenha either,just slightly,size overall doesnt matter that much. Well i wonder why nobody challenged the BBoys yet..
(11-27-2019, 06:20 PM)Potato Wrote: Confrontation with Charlestones was in july 2018. Avocas are born in early 2013 so I would argue if Avoca's age can be excuse. "Based on what you think that Charlestons are higher lvl then Bboys??" Mainly on size difference ( Charlestones were always considered very big males, when BBoys... well I know there is myth that they are big, but so far from what I heard from guides speaking about their size it is just a myth. Nhenha may be over avarage, but he is no near Charlestons size, not even speaking about Tinyo. Second think is their resume. Charlestons no doubt proved themselfs, when BBoys weren't really been ever tested by enemy coalition.
What comes to Tsalala vs Avoca there you can see full raport if you are intrested: https://www.lionsands.com/2018/04/two-contending-coalitions/
Well beign 5 1/2 years old,against big 8 yrs old males in their prime certantly mattered,from the age perpective.
For the size difference, Charleston Big Boy is one of the biggest lions around yes,but i think Mazino and Nhenha are similar,and Tinyo isnt that smaller from Nhenha either,just slightly,size overall doesnt matter that much. Well i wonder why nobody challenged the BBoys yet..
Tnx for the report :)
I would argue that 5,5 years old is adult already and both coalitions were in their prime by the time of the confrontation. What comes to size difference there you have opinion of guide who worked with both this coalitions: (from 3:20 to 4:20) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xBJjmaEeAEQ
"Well i wonder why nobody challenged the BBoys yet" Because there very little cometition in arena for now. There is no at all chalangers around, no adult nomads around.
I put quite a lot raports there: https://wildfact.com/forum/topic-lion-tales
so if you are intrested you can check it out
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11-27-2019, 07:06 PM( This post was last modified: 11-27-2019, 07:06 PM by Potato )
(11-27-2019, 02:29 PM)Tr1x24 Wrote:
(11-27-2019, 04:44 AM)Blondemane Wrote: hi Tr1x24 welcome to the forum :)
in relation to avoca vs tsalala, yes the Avocas fought the 3 tsalala boys and won.
"However, the hope of a stable near-future for the Tsalala Males and Eyrefield lionesses was short-lived. On 26 March, the guides at Lion Sands Kruger National Park witnessed the unpleasant aftermath of a territorial dispute between the Tsalala and Avoca Males that morning. Despite the Tsalalas having numbers on their side, the Avocas severely injured one of their lions. The guides later saw him in a bad condition, with what appeared to be injuries to his spine. We weren’t able to relocate him for several days afterwards, so were unsure of the extent of his wounds. Two Tsalala Males were seen together a few days later, moving from Lion Sands Kruger National Park back into Lion Sands Sabi Sand, with no sign of the third. We were worried that their injured brother might not have made it. Thankfully, on 1 April, all three males were seen together, although not in top condition. They will need to hunt soon and recover quickly if they are going to maintain a presence in this area. After the fight between the coalitions, the Avoca Males wasted no time in finding the Eyrefields lionesses again. They were spotted together, with one lioness displaying coy behaviour towards one of the males. We didn’t see them mate, although it is likely they had been. If these lionesses hold back from mating, it would be because they are waiting to see if these males are strong enough to defend the territory and their future offspring.
We will have to wait and see what happens next…"
this from lionsands blog...
in relation to this new situation about 2 avocas vs bboys, my money is of course in the brothers, Avoca boys... the bboys ever fight with other coalition in the past?
Well i know that 1 injured Tsalala was seen few days after in Londolozi with his brothers, but i never read that somebody witness the fight and that it come from the Avocas, regardless, Tsalalas where atleast half a year younger and not ready yet to be a dominant males over older Avocas.
Bboys did maul 1 male to death in Manyeleti, i forgot which one, and did several beatings to the 2 Selati males when they started to establish themselfs in the north, but main reason they didnt fight that much is because other coalitions didnt want to mess with coalition of 5 and later 4 (S. Matimbas example) and not because they are "weak",they are known for beign very agressive and dominant males, they did whatever they want since they become dominant in late 2015,and nobody challenge them still to today, always holding multiple and the biggest prides, that speaks something about them.
I like S. Avocas, they are big and beutiful males, but they still need to prove themself.
Thats my opninion, everyone has his own and i respect that.
Latest reports are that Bboys with Kambulas are heading back north in MalaMala, so prob nothing will happen afterall.
Tsalals are 3 to 6 months younger, their age difference was not even really noticible (at least by looking at their manes). Are you sure about BBoys going back to Mala Mala? I just read report from 27.11: 16 members of the Kambula pride and both Gowrie males have ventured even deeper into the heart of Charleston - they were found just north of Charleston Koppies.
(11-27-2019, 06:56 PM)Potato Wrote: I would argue that 5,5 years old is adult already and both coalitions were in their prime by the time of the confrontation. What comes to size difference there you have opinion of guide who worked with both this coalitions: (from 3:20 to 4:20) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xBJjmaEeAEQ
"Well i wonder why nobody challenged the BBoys yet" Because there very little cometition in arena for now. There is no at all chalangers around, no adult nomads around.
I put quite a lot raports there: https://wildfact.com/forum/topic-lion-tales
so if you are intrested you can check it out
I dont think that 5,5 yrs old lion is in its prime yet,neither physicaly or mentaly,my opinion is that the "absolute prime" years for males starts at 6/6.5 yrs,depends of the individual ofc.
Well obiviously nobody weighted those lions,thats all just assumptions,but yea as i said i agree that Big Boy Charleston was the biggest lion in SS at that time,but he is an outline,theres not that much big lions,that doesnt mean that BBoys are small.
11-27-2019, 07:23 PM( This post was last modified: 11-27-2019, 07:24 PM by Potato )
(11-27-2019, 07:14 PM)Tr1x24 Wrote:
(11-27-2019, 06:56 PM)Potato Wrote: I would argue that 5,5 years old is adult already and both coalitions were in their prime by the time of the confrontation. What comes to size difference there you have opinion of guide who worked with both this coalitions: (from 3:20 to 4:20) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xBJjmaEeAEQ
"Well i wonder why nobody challenged the BBoys yet" Because there very little cometition in arena for now. There is no at all chalangers around, no adult nomads around.
I put quite a lot raports there: https://wildfact.com/forum/topic-lion-tales
so if you are intrested you can check it out
I dont think that 5,5 yrs old lion is in its prime yet,neither physicaly or mentaly,my opinion is that the "absolute prime" years for males starts at 6/6.5 yrs,depends of the individual ofc.
Well obiviously nobody weighted those lions,thats all just assumptions,but yea as i said i agree that Big Boy Charleston was the biggest lion in SS at that time,but he is an outline,theres not that much big lions,that doesnt mean that BBoys are small.
Yea i know :)
Perhaps mentally 5,5 is not yet in prime, but personally I would say 5,5 is already physicaly prime. I do not put a lot etention to the numbers presented by guide, but just that guide saw both coalitions on live and saw Charlestons as significantly bigger. I do not know if Big Boy was the largest of his times. He no doubt was huge beast, but acording to guides Hairy Belly was also monster size lion.
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(11-27-2019, 07:06 PM)Potato Wrote: Tsalals are 3 to 6 months younger, their age difference was not even really noticible (at least by looking at their manes). Are you sure about BBoys going back to Mala Mala? I just read report from 27.11: 16 members of the Kambula pride and both Gowrie males have ventured even deeper into the heart of Charleston - they were found just north of Charleston Koppies.
Tsalalas where born in August 2013,while S.Avocas early 2013,by that Tsalalas where even younger then N.Avocas who where born in mid 2013 and are estimated to be half a year younger then their 2 brothers,but yea we dont know exact month of birth for Avocas.
Well yea they are seen in Charleston which is back in south MalaMala,they where seen in Kirkmans these past days,all the way to Tengile camp,no?
(11-27-2019, 07:31 PM)Potato Wrote: Southern Mala Mala is still Avocas territory. Birminghams normaly hangs in southern Londolozi and central Mala Mala.
BTW I knew that Tsalalas are from mid 2013 but I didn't know exact month.
Yea but maybe thats a sign that they are heading back north.
Nkuhuma male was seen this morning in the northern area of our traversing, still looking fresh. He has been walking his pride land alone, hunting and feeding peacefully with no competion at all!
*This image is copyright of its original author
Note: some say in the comments under this picture that it may be Torchwood male, not Nkuhuma. I am not sure althrough acording to lodge it is Nkuhuma male.
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(11-28-2019, 12:28 PM)Potato Wrote: Nkuhuma male one weak ago.
Nkuhuma male was seen this morning in the northern area of our traversing, still looking fresh. He has been walking his pride land alone, hunting and feeding peacefully with no competion at all!
*This image is copyright of its original author
*This image is copyright of its original author
Note: some say in the comments under this picture that it may be Torchwood male, not Nkuhuma. I am not sure althrough acording to lodge it is Nkuhuma male.
Thats Torchwood male 100%.
No picture of Nkuhuma male and his sister for few weeks now, but i read that somebody did see him close to Mangheni Big Boy around Elephant plains/Arathusa area around week ago, but they where not together,idk if the missing lioness was with him.
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(11-27-2019, 12:25 AM)Potato Wrote: I agree and I would also put my pet on BBoys in potential confrontation however:
1. If BBoys will be hesitant to take on Avocas than that will be enough to secure Sparta pride and force BBoys back north.
2. Avocas are so far kind of unknown in terms of strenght. They were chassed by the Charlestons, but Charlestons are on higher level in compare to BBoys and that Charlestons could chasse Avocas around doesn't meen that BBoys will be able to do that as well. Also Avocas have 3 Tsalala males on their resume so it is not that they are some joke duo.
S. Avocas where still new to this area and fairly young when Charlestons returned, they where not confident enough yet to challenge them.
Based on what you think that Charlestons are higher lvl then Bboys??
And as far i know, theres no report of S. Avocas beating/chasing Tsalala males ever (Tsalalas where half a year younger even) , they had a few little scraps over some carcases with few diffrent outcomes, even few times feeding together. Tsalalas where mating with 1 Sparta lionesses, but where never dominant over that pride, S. Avocas certaintly didnt takeover Sparta from them, Tsalalas just left that area and went into Kruger.
Confrontation with Charlestones was in july 2018. Avocas are born in early 2013 so I would argue if Avoca's age can be excuse. "Based on what you think that Charlestons are higher lvl then Bboys??" Mainly on size difference ( Charlestones were always considered very big males, when BBoys... well I know there is myth that they are big, but so far from what I heard from guides speaking about their size it is just a myth. Nhenha may be over avarage, but he is no near Charlestons size, not even speaking about Tinyo. Second think is their resume. Charlestons no doubt proved themselfs, when BBoys weren't really been ever tested by enemy coalition.
What comes to Tsalala vs Avoca there you can see full raport if you are intrested: https://www.lionsands.com/2018/04/two-contending-coalitions/
