Lions of Sabi Sands

[Dangeroscos]

(04-07-2025, 10:52 PM)BA0701 Wrote:

(04-07-2025, 09:45 PM)KM600 Wrote:

(04-07-2025, 08:39 PM)Ttimemarti Wrote: Nkuhuma and talamati are starting to carve out an incredible difficult territory to defend much like the southern matimbas being in between the majinagline and matshipiri males on which I believe led the Matimbas to vacate the central sabi sands nkuhuma and talamti are not in a good situation when in comes to having territory for themselves and I fear a fight will likely happen soon but I pray nothing happens

Disagree, they’re not hugely outnumbered, it’s just that the 3 main coalitions in Sabi Sands, even as duos, are insanely strong. Well Nkhulus too, but they’ve never went into their territory, and maybe not as strong but they do have the numbers. 

If they want to be successful in Sabi Sands, they will have to fight for it, they’ve been together for just under a year now, it’s time to see how committed they are to each other in life or death scenarios.

After writing this I definitely misread part of it, difficult territory to carve out part, but this is literally the only pride they have a chance with, which doesn’t lead to full on takeover from any other coalition assuming PCMs stay forgetting about the pride. If they take up territory mostly in Londolozi then ye extremely hard to defend, but if they can claim some of the west, that is more than ideal.

The big wild card in the whole thing is NK. He has shown a willingness to mix it up with larger numbers, Talamatis and Kambulas being such an example, but he has also been quick to flee, as we have also seen many times. He abandoned Big Boy for reasons we will never know, his teaming with Styx seemed very promising up until Styx Male was killed by an unknown cause, he also seemed very strong and confident with Nhenha except when being confronted by the PCMs, he left Skorro Jr early on as well. I believe that is why people are so concerned for Khanya, as we just don't know what he will have beside him, when confronted by any of the powerful duos that have them surrounded currently. Khanya has show he is willing to mix it up, but also smart enough to flee when the situation requires it.

As someone else mentioned the other day, when the PCMs chased him recently, would he have been more confident if NK was with him, would he have chosen to stand and fight, and if so, would NK remain by his side? All good questions, and I just hope that he doesn't end up being badly injured or worse, for us to find out the answer.

Does anyone know who Khanya's mother is, could it be Tiyelele? I recall someone mentioning he was born to one of the older lionesses, and his brother was born to one of the younger lionesses, perhaps one of the Musutlu lionesses?

What did Khanya do to show, he is willing to mix things up? Reply

[Dangeroscos]

(04-07-2025, 11:01 PM)Ttimemarti Wrote:

(04-07-2025, 10:07 PM)Mapokser Wrote: S.Matimba had multiple clashes with the Majingilane who were 4 males strong, and ended up ousted by Matshipiri who were only 2.

Talamati and NK have only duos around them but there's a massive difference in strength between them and S.Matimba.

S.Matimba in 2015 just after leaving the North may have been able to just show up West and straight up oust PCM from Singita, taking over Mangheni pride.

that’s what I mean that matimba territory they had coalitions all around them too much pressure so they left I believe and I don’t think nkuhuma and talamati will be able to handle that territory with plains camp ndzenga matimahle kambula and southern black dam and avoca also in the area but I hope I’m wrong this would’ve been 1000% easier if darkmane jr was still alive RIP beautiful boy truly heart broken

How did darkmane jr die? Reply

[Mapokser]

(04-07-2025, 10:39 PM)Tr1x24 Wrote: Well, key thing about these speculations is, that NK male will most likely not fight any territorial coalition when odds are against him.

NK is smart lion, and survivor, he knows which fights he can win (him and Nhenha vs Tumbelas) and which he cant.

Until that opportunity comes, he is quite fine and comfortable with his nomadic lifestyle.

While this is true, he can only "not win" these fights, because he doesn't fight them. Nowadays it is harder since all duos are at the peak of their prime, confidence and experience, while he is building a nomadic life again with Talamati.

But in 2022 the PCM had barely turned 5yo and had previously stopped dead in their tracks hearing the Tumbelas and Othawas roaring ( after chasing nomadic NK & Nhenha earlier in the year ). If prime NK had stood his ground at that time, he'd have changed his entire story. Nhenha tried to chase the PCM in the first clash so the only reason they were easily ousted was because NK didn't try.

But anyway this is in the past now, as I said and you were saying, he won't fight these territorial duos and both Talamati and him come from the North so it's unlikely they'd want to traverse there where opportunities are better. Reply

[Ttimemarti]

(04-08-2025, 08:29 PM)Dangeroscos Wrote:

(04-07-2025, 11:01 PM)Ttimemarti Wrote:

(04-07-2025, 10:07 PM)Mapokser Wrote: S.Matimba had multiple clashes with the Majingilane who were 4 males strong, and ended up ousted by Matshipiri who were only 2.

Talamati and NK have only duos around them but there's a massive difference in strength between them and S.Matimba.

S.Matimba in 2015 just after leaving the North may have been able to just show up West and straight up oust PCM from Singita, taking over Mangheni pride.

that’s what I mean that matimba territory they had coalitions all around them too much pressure so they left I believe and I don’t think nkuhuma and talamati will be able to handle that territory with plains camp ndzenga matimahle kambula and southern black dam and avoca also in the area but I hope I’m wrong this would’ve been 1000% easier if darkmane jr was still alive RIP beautiful boy truly heart broken

How did darkmane jr die?

No idea he just hasn’t been seen he and his brother where in southern sabi sands I believe the gijimas chased them and then only khanya was seen very deep into Kruger before returning alone… I believe he came back to northern sabi sands and was seen contact calling possibly looking for his brother Reply

[Mapokser]

So a guide ( Deon ) has said a NK female has cubs.

Kambulas are potentially the fathers and are in the North right now. I hope they stay there long enough to meet the cubs if they survive long enough to be introduced to the pride.

We don't know much about what cubs means to male lions so maybe accepting cubs from a pride that accepts the Kambulas and in an area the Kambulas have been semi-territorial for a long time, will trigger something in these males, making them more willing to stick around and try harder to become dominant.


Anywyas, gotta reply to others in this post so I don't end up with 3 posts back to back.

@Ttimemarti while the pressure was big, it was the Matshipiri who ousted the S.Matimba, they were competing for the then Mangheni Breakaway pride when HB was found with a wound to his back and later already as a nomad interacting with Nsuku in the North.

@Dangeroscos I'm not 100% sure, as I can only speculate, but the PCM more or less have abandoned the area and fully abandoned the pride, only going there to chase invading males, and they barely show the willingness to do so.

They barely put the effort to chase the S.Avoca, and rather than pursuing him hard, they returned to give a beating to their son. They also were chasing at Talamati in slow motion despite him being mating with a female.

S.Matimba in their prime was one of the most powerful duos out there. Elephant Plains reports 2 of the Majingilane chasing their Styx sons in mid 2015, the commotion attracted the Matimba who pushed the 2 Majingi out of their own territory ( Elephant Plains' words ), they then roared and scent-marked in front of the lodge and the Majingi stayed silent, which EP claimed was strange as normally the Majingi would answer roars coming from there.

Then just after being ousted by Bboys, Matimba arrived in Londolozi and the 3 stronger Majingi showed up to oust them, but were stalemated by Ginger and HB in a back and forth chasing match throughout all morning "without a clear winner" as said by Londolozi. They had a fierce competition with Majingi from mid 2015 to mid 2016 and the S.Matimba were able to compete almost equally with the 3 more dominant Majingilane, only not putting up resistance when Hipscar Majingi would join his brothers, making them 4 strong. In one of the 3v2 clashes, despite being pushed east in the end, the Matimba managed to give a good beating on DM Majingi and land some blows on the other 2 without sustaining basically any injuries. The last clash was against 2 of the Majingi in August 2016, and the Majingi fled in silence as soon as they heard the Matimba coming and roaring.

PCM are very strong too and are evenly matched with the Ndhzenga, but I find it unlikely they'd be willing to fight a duo capable of matching 3 strong and experienced dominant males like the Majingilane, for a territory they barely care about, and a pride they have fuĺly abandoned. Reply

[Ttimemarti]

The point is the matimbas where a strong duo right but had pressure from multiple coalitions and they left that territory so what would make nkuhuma and talamati any different from having the londolozi territory when the plains camp males come there and the ndzengas and kambula pride visit londolozi plus the kambula males too much for a least bonded coalition in the reserve Reply

[KM600]

Would normally go in the Avoca thread but seeming as a lot of the current conversation is around him and his situation, decided to send in here.

The woman who took the video also seen PCMs just yesterday, bigger maned PCM looking a lil skinny in his backend while laying down, which is weird to see as he’s normally bloated. Khanya looked more impressive than both males in that sighting of the chase, as they also appeared to be slim there. Nothing to worry about tho, they’ll get a big meal soon.

Reply

[afortich]

(04-08-2025, 08:28 PM)Dangeroscos Wrote:

(04-07-2025, 10:52 PM)BA0701 Wrote:

(04-07-2025, 09:45 PM)KM600 Wrote:

(04-07-2025, 08:39 PM)Ttimemarti Wrote: Nkuhuma and talamati are starting to carve out an incredible difficult territory to defend much like the southern matimbas being in between the majinagline and matshipiri males on which I believe led the Matimbas to vacate the central sabi sands nkuhuma and talamti are not in a good situation when in comes to having territory for themselves and I fear a fight will likely happen soon but I pray nothing happens

Disagree, they’re not hugely outnumbered, it’s just that the 3 main coalitions in Sabi Sands, even as duos, are insanely strong. Well Nkhulus too, but they’ve never went into their territory, and maybe not as strong but they do have the numbers. 

If they want to be successful in Sabi Sands, they will have to fight for it, they’ve been together for just under a year now, it’s time to see how committed they are to each other in life or death scenarios.

After writing this I definitely misread part of it, difficult territory to carve out part, but this is literally the only pride they have a chance with, which doesn’t lead to full on takeover from any other coalition assuming PCMs stay forgetting about the pride. If they take up territory mostly in Londolozi then ye extremely hard to defend, but if they can claim some of the west, that is more than ideal.

The big wild card in the whole thing is NK. He has shown a willingness to mix it up with larger numbers, Talamatis and Kambulas being such an example, but he has also been quick to flee, as we have also seen many times. He abandoned Big Boy for reasons we will never know, his teaming with Styx seemed very promising up until Styx Male was killed by an unknown cause, he also seemed very strong and confident with Nhenha except when being confronted by the PCMs, he left Skorro Jr early on as well. I believe that is why people are so concerned for Khanya, as we just don't know what he will have beside him, when confronted by any of the powerful duos that have them surrounded currently. Khanya has show he is willing to mix it up, but also smart enough to flee when the situation requires it.

As someone else mentioned the other day, when the PCMs chased him recently, would he have been more confident if NK was with him, would he have chosen to stand and fight, and if so, would NK remain by his side? All good questions, and I just hope that he doesn't end up being badly injured or worse, for us to find out the answer.

Does anyone know who Khanya's mother is, could it be Tiyelele? I recall someone mentioning he was born to one of the older lionesses, and his brother was born to one of the younger lionesses, perhaps one of the Musutlu lionesses?

What did Khanya do to show, he is willing to mix things up?

@Dangeroscos, according to the records (video clips), Khanya has never backed down from a 1 to 1 fight. When he was with his dad and brother and got into fights, he always showed signs that he fought. And when he's in disadvantage, he's got no issues withdrawing from the fight and flee. Therefore, some of us believe that Khanya is able to successfully handle different fighting scenerios (smart lion). Reply

[KM600]

(04-08-2025, 09:56 PM)Mapokser Wrote: So a guide ( Deon ) has said a NK female has cubs.

Kambulas are potentially the fathers and are in the North right now. I hope they stay there long enough to meet the cubs if they survive long enough to be introduced to the pride.

We don't know much about what cubs means to male lions so maybe accepting cubs from a pride that accepts the Kambulas and in an area the Kambulas have been semi-territorial for a long time, will trigger something in these males, making them more willing to stick around and try harder to become dominant.

I’ve said this before but I believe some of them may have already had cubs and lost them just as fast, months ago Deon was saying the same thing and there were 3 different lionesses seemingly pregnant.

Would be nice to see Kambulas interact with their own cubs, if it’s true, and atleast make up for their disappointment in both taking over and permanently protecting this pride, which they’ve done neither. Would bring a lil joy to the pride, although the cubs chances don’t seem great if they keep up with this disappearing act. Reply

[BA0701]

(04-08-2025, 08:24 PM)Dangeroscos Wrote:

(04-07-2025, 09:45 PM)KM600 Wrote:

(04-07-2025, 08:39 PM)Ttimemarti Wrote: Nkuhuma and talamati are starting to carve out an incredible difficult territory to defend much like the southern matimbas being in between the majinagline and matshipiri males on which I believe led the Matimbas to vacate the central sabi sands nkuhuma and talamti are not in a good situation when in comes to having territory for themselves and I fear a fight will likely happen soon but I pray nothing happens

Disagree, they’re not hugely outnumbered, it’s just that the 3 main coalitions in Sabi Sands, even as duos, are insanely strong. Well Nkhulus too, but they’ve never went into their territory, and maybe not as strong but they do have the numbers. 

If they want to be successful in Sabi Sands, they will have to fight for it, they’ve been together for just under a year now, it’s time to see how committed they are to each other in life or death scenarios.

After writing this I definitely misread part of it, difficult territory to carve out part, but this is literally the only pride they have a chance with, which doesn’t lead to full on takeover from any other coalition assuming PCMs stay forgetting about the pride. If they take up territory mostly in Londolozi then ye extremely hard to defend, but if they can claim some of the west, that is more than ideal.

Do u really think, they can take a pride in sabi sands? I thought it’s unlikely that nkuhuma male will fight even if the odds are even(same numbers). This would lead Khanya to rely on only himself. Questionable if he could take on 2 dominant males of sabi sands (Gijima, ndhzenga, pcm ) or even kambulas or so. 

I kind of think that Khanya is doomed, because Nkuhuma male won’t support him, if push comes to shove. 

Do I think I have a realistic outlook on the situation?

My friend, for someone who claims to know so little about these creatures we are all here to follow, you sure do question things others have said, an awful lot. Reply

[Mwk85]

Anyone know who this is? Was posted by Umkumbe on their FB page yesterday but no ID or date of the sighting were given, unfortunately.

Credit: Umkumbe Bush Lodge Facebook 

*This image is copyright of its original author

Reply

[Ngonya]

(04-09-2025, 05:39 AM)Mwk85 Wrote: Anyone know who this is? Was posted by Umkumbe on their FB page yesterday but no ID or date of the sighting were given, unfortunately.

Credit: Umkumbe Bush Lodge Facebook 

*This image is copyright of its original author

Thats the last Southern Avoca. He has been missing for quite sometime, being last confirmedly sighted at February, and looked really injured. 
Since then, just a few weeks ago a skull of a male lion was shared by a ranger at Lion Sands and it is most likely is Southern Avoca's, so i fear this picture isn't recent. 
Also, correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Umkumbe post this photo as the background of the page's profile? If so, I would say it makes it more likely to not being a recent photo. Reply

[KM600]

(04-09-2025, 05:49 AM)Ngonya Wrote:

(04-09-2025, 05:39 AM)Mwk85 Wrote: Anyone know who this is? Was posted by Umkumbe on their FB page yesterday but no ID or date of the sighting were given, unfortunately.

Credit: Umkumbe Bush Lodge Facebook 

*This image is copyright of its original author

Thats the last Southern Avoca. He has been missing for quite sometime, being last confirmedly sighted at February, and looked really injured. 
Since then, just a few weeks ago a skull of a male lion was shared by a ranger at Lion Sands and it is most likely is Southern Avoca's, so i fear this picture isn't recent. 
Also, correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Umkumbe post this photo as the background of the page's profile? If so, I would say it makes it more likely to not being a recent photo.

Ye I’m 99% sure that photo is months old, the angle with the truck behind to his left is so familiar, and like u said, I’m fairly sure that recent skull belongs to him. Reply

[KM600]

(04-09-2025, 01:35 AM)BA0701 Wrote:

(04-08-2025, 08:24 PM)Dangeroscos Wrote:

(04-07-2025, 09:45 PM)KM600 Wrote:

(04-07-2025, 08:39 PM)Ttimemarti Wrote: Nkuhuma and talamati are starting to carve out an incredible difficult territory to defend much like the southern matimbas being in between the majinagline and matshipiri males on which I believe led the Matimbas to vacate the central sabi sands nkuhuma and talamti are not in a good situation when in comes to having territory for themselves and I fear a fight will likely happen soon but I pray nothing happens

Disagree, they’re not hugely outnumbered, it’s just that the 3 main coalitions in Sabi Sands, even as duos, are insanely strong. Well Nkhulus too, but they’ve never went into their territory, and maybe not as strong but they do have the numbers. 

If they want to be successful in Sabi Sands, they will have to fight for it, they’ve been together for just under a year now, it’s time to see how committed they are to each other in life or death scenarios.

After writing this I definitely misread part of it, difficult territory to carve out part, but this is literally the only pride they have a chance with, which doesn’t lead to full on takeover from any other coalition assuming PCMs stay forgetting about the pride. If they take up territory mostly in Londolozi then ye extremely hard to defend, but if they can claim some of the west, that is more than ideal.

Do u really think, they can take a pride in sabi sands? I thought it’s unlikely that nkuhuma male will fight even if the odds are even(same numbers). This would lead Khanya to rely on only himself. Questionable if he could take on 2 dominant males of sabi sands (Gijima, ndhzenga, pcm ) or even kambulas or so. 

I kind of think that Khanya is doomed, because Nkuhuma male won’t support him, if push comes to shove. 

Do I think I have a realistic outlook on the situation?

My friend, for someone who claims to know so little about these creatures we are all here to follow, you sure do question things others have said, an awful lot.

Agreed, and questions are fine a lot of the time, if we all thought the same it’d make for a pretty boring thread, but too many questions is doing too much. I personally don’t like responding to ppl when the conversation has moved on, never want to disrupt the newer conversations, which for my own sanity, is quite refreshing. It’s all about knowing when to move on. Reply

[Mwk85]

(04-09-2025, 05:49 AM)Ngonya Wrote:

(04-09-2025, 05:39 AM)Mwk85 Wrote: Anyone know who this is? Was posted by Umkumbe on their FB page yesterday but no ID or date of the sighting were given, unfortunately.

Credit: Umkumbe Bush Lodge Facebook 

*This image is copyright of its original author

Thats the last Southern Avoca. He has been missing for quite sometime, being last confirmedly sighted at February, and looked really injured. 
Since then, just a few weeks ago a skull of a male lion was shared by a ranger at Lion Sands and it is most likely is Southern Avoca's, so i fear this picture isn't recent. 
Also, correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Umkumbe post this photo as the background of the page's profile? If so, I would say it makes it more likely to not being a recent photo.

They did (background photo). Saw speculation that it was him but wasn't for sure so figured best chance of finding out would be asking here, so thanks for that. Reply