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(04-01-2025, 02:34 AM)Dangeroscos Wrote: Wow that’s really impressive. LM really chased them alone and his brother was nowhere to be seen. (I know later u can see his brother with him) really brave indeed. I heard they have 24 living offspring in total right now. How about the living offspring count of the other dominant males of sabi sands?
Here we go...
Offspring of the 3 Sabi Sand duos
Only 3 surviving Ndzhenga offsprings from Styx pride? Is Floppy Ear included? (even if he is sired by one of the other two now passed Ndzhengas he should imho count as their Southern daughters do)
Interesting. If we ass 6 lost cubs of Mhangeni and 3 lost cubs of Tsalala to PCM, we get to 21 which is comparable. Although we all know that PCMs are no without guilt as they weren't there for them when it mattered. At the same time the other two coalitions, Gijimas especially, still have high number count in "cubs" category and thus those have road ahead of them with no guarantee they'll make it, so numbers might get closer to each other in comparison when all is done and settled. Or not, perhaps the opposite, who knows.
Wow.
Do u think the lost cubs of PCMs got lost to other males, or other predators?
The three cubs of Tsalala female are thought to be lost to other lions although it is not completely clear to which ones. The Kruger Male + Southern Avoca recently formed coalition were in the area at the time and probably had some sort of interaction with her, whether they had paws in the cubs' actual disappearance we won't know for sure (there was a heated debate on this forum who the culprits could be, one theory even szggested that perhaps one of PCMs might not have mated with her and reconsider accepting the cubs). Kruger and Southern Avoca probably caused an disturbance and then something happened soon after (within days) and the cubs were no more. IIRC correctly one cubs was missing at first and then all were gone.
Tsalala being lone lioness wasn't ofc the main pride for PCMs and they visited her rather infrequently, they favored the Ximhungwe pride (somehow many males that met the older/actual Ximhungwe lioness tend to spend time with her (pride) over other females), patrolling (mostly border roaring matches with Ndzhengas) and extending to the east to Nkuhuma pride over caring a protecting over all their females - namely they abandoned the Mhangeni pride to tehir south, they mostly went there only after they realized other males are present there rather than proactively preventing that from happening by checking the area regularly.
Mhangenis lost cubs due to more factors, without PCM they were without pride males, two old lionesses died (one male cub lost his mother that way and being younger than other litters had quite a rough start, but kept going on - known as No.10 as he was easily distinguishable among other cubs due to being visibly smaller, wasn't first casualty but didn't make it), still they had 3 females to care about 10 cubs* (even 5.5 split), but different males moved in and used them as a source of food. Southern Avoca briefly, Tumbela for prolongued time (good with cubs though). Anytime the pride split, it was a waiting game if all of them emerge and often they were minus one again (might be lack of food or just cub getting lost and not found, who knows). The only certain thing is that there was a running with Kambula pride, when they moved to the east, possibly pushed there by Khanya+Nkuhuma duo who might be hostile because other male, Tumbela was trailing the Mhangeni pride. Kambulas being stronger and hostile led to a loss of multiple cubs (2 iirc?) caused by the encounter or its aftermath. I don't think they lost a cubs since the Monwana nomadic males found them, but they are already have just few of them.
*which was possibly already worrying - as the Mhangeni has a history of abandoning non-independent subs, although not the same mother lionesses (tragic story known as Mhangeni 12), among those were 9 sub-adult males and that was the problem because so many young males require a lot food, so the ratio of young already big males who can't feed themselves to adult lionesses who are supposed to feed them can be an issue, if food is not plentiful as the pride can possibly be close to a tipping point if bad luck strucks and they would lose a female in any way (a sorely needed provider at that point) - but that didn't happen, as the Mhangenis started losing cubs, especially male ones, before that issue could even arise.
Good write up. Didn't the first Tsalala cub go missing after a reported and confirmed fight between the Tsalala lioness and the KM/S.Avoca? I feel like that's something that definitely happened, unless my memory is messing with me.
Ximhungwe female leading her cubs to a kill the pride made at Inyati. One of the female subadults comes running out of nowhere to play with the cubs. "Ximhungwe pride together with cubs moving to the kill and we were shocked by the one the subadult playing very hush to the young cubs."
(8 hours ago)Ngonya Wrote: Ximhungwe female leading her cubs to a kill the pride made at Inyati. One of the female subadults comes running out of nowhere to play with the cubs. "Ximhungwe pride together with cubs moving to the kill and we were shocked by the one the subadult playing very hush to the young cubs."
"Ximhungwe subadult teaching the cubs hard way"
by Omega Godi
Man, I was just updating some drivers, which caused my screen to go blurry just as I was reading this post, which caused me to totally misread this comment. Good thing is, as it was so ridiculous on first read, it made much more sense as soon as my screen cleared up. I read that she was leading her cubs to kill the pride male at Inyati.
(04-01-2025, 02:34 AM)Dangeroscos Wrote: Wow that’s really impressive. LM really chased them alone and his brother was nowhere to be seen. (I know later u can see his brother with him) really brave indeed. I heard they have 24 living offspring in total right now. How about the living offspring count of the other dominant males of sabi sands?
Here we go...
Offspring of the 3 Sabi Sand duos
Only 3 surviving Ndzhenga offsprings from Styx pride? Is Floppy Ear included? (even if he is sired by one of the other two now passed Ndzhengas he should imho count as their Southern daughters do)
Interesting. If we ass 6 lost cubs of Mhangeni and 3 lost cubs of Tsalala to PCM, we get to 21 which is comparable. Although we all know that PCMs are no without guilt as they weren't there for them when it mattered. At the same time the other two coalitions, Gijimas especially, still have high number count in "cubs" category and thus those have road ahead of them with no guarantee they'll make it, so numbers might get closer to each other in comparison when all is done and settled. Or not, perhaps the opposite, who knows.
Wow.
Do u think the lost cubs of PCMs got lost to other males, or other predators?
The three cubs of Tsalala female are thought to be lost to other lions although it is not completely clear to which ones. The Kruger Male + Southern Avoca recently formed coalition were in the area at the time and probably had some sort of interaction with her, whether they had paws in the cubs' actual disappearance we won't know for sure (there was a heated debate on this forum who the culprits could be, one theory even szggested that perhaps one of PCMs might not have mated with her and reconsider accepting the cubs). Kruger and Southern Avoca probably caused an disturbance and then something happened soon after (within days) and the cubs were no more. IIRC correctly one cubs was missing at first and then all were gone.
Tsalala being lone lioness wasn't ofc the main pride for PCMs and they visited her rather infrequently, they favored the Ximhungwe pride (somehow many males that met the older/actual Ximhungwe lioness tend to spend time with her (pride) over other females), patrolling (mostly border roaring matches with Ndzhengas) and extending to the east to Nkuhuma pride over caring a protecting over all their females - namely they abandoned the Mhangeni pride to tehir south, they mostly went there only after they realized other males are present there rather than proactively preventing that from happening by checking the area regularly.
Mhangenis lost cubs due to more factors, without PCM they were without pride males, two old lionesses died (one male cub lost his mother that way and being younger than other litters had quite a rough start, but kept going on - known as No.10 as he was easily distinguishable among other cubs due to being visibly smaller, wasn't first casualty but didn't make it), still they had 3 females to care about 10 cubs* (even 5.5 split), but different males moved in and used them as a source of food. Southern Avoca briefly, Tumbela for prolongued time (good with cubs though). Anytime the pride split, it was a waiting game if all of them emerge and often they were minus one again (might be lack of food or just cub getting lost and not found, who knows). The only certain thing is that there was a running with Kambula pride, when they moved to the east, possibly pushed there by Khanya+Nkuhuma duo who might be hostile because other male, Tumbela was trailing the Mhangeni pride. Kambulas being stronger and hostile led to a loss of multiple cubs (2 iirc?) caused by the encounter or its aftermath. I don't think they lost a cubs since the Monwana nomadic males found them, but they are already have just few of them.
*which was possibly already worrying - as the Mhangeni has a history of abandoning non-independent subs, although not the same mother lionesses (tragic story known as Mhangeni 12), among those were 9 sub-adult males and that was the problem because so many young males require a lot food, so the ratio of young already big males who can't feed themselves to adult lionesses who are supposed to feed them can be an issue, if food is not plentiful as the pride can possibly be close to a tipping point if bad luck strucks and they would lose a female in any way (a sorely needed provider at that point) - but that didn't happen, as the Mhangenis started losing cubs, especially male ones, before that issue could even arise.
Good write up. Didn't the first Tsalala cub go missing after a reported and confirmed fight between the Tsalala lioness and the KM/S.Avoca? I feel like that's something that definitely happened, unless my memory is messing with me.
I think so, at least that was the initial info. Then in some later summary IIRC it might have been narrated like they actually disappeared all at once later, Idk, definitely there was an initial accident (involving Kruger and S.Avoca, whether a fight or just dangerous proximity. for sure a tense situation) followed by another incident (not necessarily with those two involved) or the continuation of it in following day (possibly multiple concurrent events or rather movement observations which made some individuals possible suspects while obviously not all possible suspect were actually involved). Honestly, I don't remember it clearly as I don't care to put blame on a specific culprit, unless it is clearly caught on video, we can only guesstimate what actually happened but the result would be the same, she lost her cubs likely due to disturbance caused by other lions or by their doing directly (not sure if other animals were ruled out). I don't think anyone knows for sure what happened as the subsequent incident that sealed the fate of at least the last 2 cubs was not filmed and everything was pieced together from whatever footage from the area and especially her behavior.
(Yesterday, 11:42 AM)sunless Wrote: Update from Cedric of WildEarth this morning SafariLive:
-4 Kambula Males at Simbambili
-3 Nkuhuma Pride females at Hoffmans
-2 Unidentified Males (maybe Bigger SBDM and Avoca Male) also at Wessels (West of Chitwa)
I missed (re-)appearance of those two, is this BDM the same SBDM that "abandoned" his injured brother and left Sabi Sands?
Hi. Yes Black damn brother met with young Avoca male lion. I wonder if they would meet Southern black damn male lion. Also young male lion maybe related to Mapoza may he rest or Avoca male lion maybe younger southern Avoca male lions younger bros of Avoca male lions.
(04-01-2025, 02:34 AM)Dangeroscos Wrote: Wow that’s really impressive. LM really chased them alone and his brother was nowhere to be seen. (I know later u can see his brother with him) really brave indeed. I heard they have 24 living offspring in total right now. How about the living offspring count of the other dominant males of sabi sands?
Here we go...
Offspring of the 3 Sabi Sand duos
Only 3 surviving Ndzhenga offsprings from Styx pride? Is Floppy Ear included? (even if he is sired by one of the other two now passed Ndzhengas he should imho count as their Southern daughters do)
Interesting. If we ass 6 lost cubs of Mhangeni and 3 lost cubs of Tsalala to PCM, we get to 21 which is comparable. Although we all know that PCMs are no without guilt as they weren't there for them when it mattered. At the same time the other two coalitions, Gijimas especially, still have high number count in "cubs" category and thus those have road ahead of them with no guarantee they'll make it, so numbers might get closer to each other in comparison when all is done and settled. Or not, perhaps the opposite, who knows.
Wow.
Do u think the lost cubs of PCMs got lost to other males, or other predators?
The three cubs of Tsalala female are thought to be lost to other lions although it is not completely clear to which ones. The Kruger Male + Southern Avoca recently formed coalition were in the area at the time and probably had some sort of interaction with her, whether they had paws in the cubs' actual disappearance we won't know for sure (there was a heated debate on this forum who the culprits could be, one theory even szggested that perhaps one of PCMs might not have mated with her and reconsider accepting the cubs). Kruger and Southern Avoca probably caused an disturbance and then something happened soon after (within days) and the cubs were no more. IIRC correctly one cubs was missing at first and then all were gone.
Tsalala being lone lioness wasn't ofc the main pride for PCMs and they visited her rather infrequently, they favored the Ximhungwe pride (somehow many males that met the older/actual Ximhungwe lioness tend to spend time with her (pride) over other females), patrolling (mostly border roaring matches with Ndzhengas) and extending to the east to Nkuhuma pride over caring a protecting over all their females - namely they abandoned the Mhangeni pride to tehir south, they mostly went there only after they realized other males are present there rather than proactively preventing that from happening by checking the area regularly.
Mhangenis lost cubs due to more factors, without PCM they were without pride males, two old lionesses died (one male cub lost his mother that way and being younger than other litters had quite a rough start, but kept going on - known as No.10 as he was easily distinguishable among other cubs due to being visibly smaller, wasn't first casualty but didn't make it), still they had 3 females to care about 10 cubs* (even 5.5 split), but different males moved in and used them as a source of food. Southern Avoca briefly, Tumbela for prolongued time (good with cubs though). Anytime the pride split, it was a waiting game if all of them emerge and often they were minus one again (might be lack of food or just cub getting lost and not found, who knows). The only certain thing is that there was a running with Kambula pride, when they moved to the east, possibly pushed there by Khanya+Nkuhuma duo who might be hostile because other male, Tumbela was trailing the Mhangeni pride. Kambulas being stronger and hostile led to a loss of multiple cubs (2 iirc?) caused by the encounter or its aftermath. I don't think they lost a cubs since the Monwana nomadic males found them, but they are already have just few of them.
*which was possibly already worrying - as the Mhangeni has a history of abandoning non-independent subs, although not the same mother lionesses (tragic story known as Mhangeni 12), among those were 9 sub-adult males and that was the problem because so many young males require a lot food, so the ratio of young already big males who can't feed themselves to adult lionesses who are supposed to feed them can be an issue, if food is not plentiful as the pride can possibly be close to a tipping point if bad luck strucks and they would lose a female in any way (a sorely needed provider at that point) - but that didn't happen, as the Mhangenis started losing cubs, especially male ones, before that issue could even arise.
I c. Very interesting indeed. Thanks for the explanation. Do u think the same would happen, if ndhzengas or gijimas were dominant in that area? If not, why?
Also, why do u think do males prefer/like the ximungwe females compared to other females?
