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Lions of Sabi Sands
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 (Yesterday, 08:54 PM)BA0701 Wrote:Probably lost condition as a result of mating with the Tsalala lioness(Yesterday, 02:33 PM)sunless Wrote: Video from Londolozi where we can clearly see and know what clearly happened between the chase of Ndzhengas and PCM, also Tsalala lioness feeding on a kudu. (Yesterday, 08:20 PM)BA0701 Wrote:(Yesterday, 03:30 PM)Bruh what Wrote: Hi,so how are the dynamics looking like. Ik they're in competition but how's the Ndhzenga vs Pcm looking like? Thank you for the welcome brothe,I hope to contribute in my way (comments and what not. Occasional images that I'd like to discuss related to the discussion).  (Yesterday, 08:30 PM)Mapokser Wrote: I'm just a little bit worried that the Ndhzengas got split and almost caught, I wouldn't expect it to happen, it's very dangerous when it happens, ideally if they were going go retreat, they'd have to do it side by side like PCM were doing, so they'd always have the option to help each other out. Thats questionable aswell. Spliting when you are being chased also has its advantages. 1. Helping other members - EO was obviously lagging behind Amahle, he had pawn injury week or so ago (so thats prob a reason), with Amahle spliting and attracting both males, he maybe saved EO getting caught by faster males. 2. Splitting/confusing opponents to gain advantage in losing scenario - with spliting, you want confuse and preferably split pursuing males, then if you can reunite with your bro soner, you can potentially have 2vs1 and caught 1 of the males alone I remember when 2 Bboys chased young Ndhzengas, Amahle split in similar fashion, what he succeeded is to split Tinyo and Nhenha, Nhenha pursuit him and that was 1vs1, while Tinyo went after 3 Ndhzengas, thats 1 vs 3. So what that Amahle split did, he basically "neutralized" any potential that Bboys caught one of them in a 2vs1, unless he gets caught and bested in 1vs1, and i dont think its coinciedence that he as strongest member was the one to split. Also he pretty much set his brothers a 3vs1 scenario, but they didnt capitalized. As @KM600 said, duo who are charging in together is hard to deal with, even when you have more numbers, so you kinda want them to split. So, as we might saw PCMs using tactic of luring males in overextending, then turning on overextending male, we also might saw Ndhzengas using tactic to split and confuse charging duo with spliting themselves, as they prob know they are not favorites to win in a straight 2vs2 brawl. (Yesterday, 07:59 PM)Vengeous Wrote: I think the really interesting thing is that if you watch the Londolozi video, the guide (Sean) mentioned that the PCMs seemed to almost confer with each other before they mounted their counter-offensive. They heard a grunt from the Ndzhengas and then had a quick "chat" or something like that. I think there's a lot more subtext to lion dynamics in a back-and-forth chase than we realise. Yea, that turn is very interesting. Wonder what PCMs heard that they knew this is the time we turn. Did they stopped hearing roars/grunts from OE? And when they turned around they only saw Amahle close? Or maybe they heard "different" grunt from Ndhzengas, we still know very little about grunts/roars/contact calls and what they mean in different scenarios. Maybe Amahle or OE contact called, which would be straight signal to PCMs that they are split. Fascinating stuff which we dont understand.  (Today, 01:36 AM)Tr1x24 Wrote:(Yesterday, 07:59 PM)Vengeous Wrote: I think the really interesting thing is that if you watch the Londolozi video, the guide (Sean) mentioned that the PCMs seemed to almost confer with each other before they mounted their counter-offensive. They heard a grunt from the Ndzhengas and then had a quick "chat" or something like that. I think there's a lot more subtext to lion dynamics in a back-and-forth chase than we realise. Just like the recent video I posted, in which the male lion stopped four lionesses from attacking a sub male, with a single roar. He made that roar, and all 4 lionesses stopped, at the same time, it was incredible to see. Impossible for us to know what it was that caused the PCMs to stop and turn like they did, but they both did it simultaneously. Really fascinating stuff. (Today, 01:23 AM)Tr1x24 Wrote:(Yesterday, 08:30 PM)Mapokser Wrote: I'm just a little bit worried that the Ndhzengas got split and almost caught, I wouldn't expect it to happen, it's very dangerous when it happens, ideally if they were going go retreat, they'd have to do it side by side like PCM were doing, so they'd always have the option to help each other out. I was going to say. I think together the Plain camp male lions would do better more confidence and strength. Separate alone I think is Ndhzenga male lions would do better. I look at amahle he does not look like a lion that would loose or give up easily he looks like he is ready to fight and he look serious and mean. amahle has a nice black mane is strong experience. I forget is amahle older brother? amahle brother was also injured had a limp but I think he would win one versus one; bigger plain camp male lions are bigger but he would be lower already I would think that helps in a fight, but hopefully they do not fight. 
@Tr1x24 wasn't Eorenji charging in front of his brother? Guide even mentions it IIRC, also it doesn't seem he was limping at all.
I'm not sure splitting was a strategic move, I think Eorenji, being more aggressive/confident currently ( see him winning the last mating rights disputes ) made him overextend ( same way and reason guides said DM Majingi was temporarily caught by S.Matimbas ), then when PCM turned and charged, Eorenji couldn't run in the same direction as his brother, they lacked some coordination there due to Eorebji overextending. And while I think these lions may know who would have the advantage in a brawl, reason why they'd rather rely on intimidation, I'm not so sure, it's possible that neither Ndhzengas nor PCM knows that PCM have a big size advantage, which would come in handy in a brawl.  (8 hours ago)Vengeous Wrote:(11 hours ago)KM600 Wrote: Khanya - second slide Nym/mfumo Jr definitely has a strong stocky body! Very glad he and Khanya are working so well together.
Had a question: where did the Kruger male currently with the S Avoca come from? Is he the same guy that was the Torchwood and Fourways pride male 2-3 years back? Was he chased away by the Mantimahle males? And the Imbali pride is currently controlled by the Mantinahles right?
S Avoca and Kruger male at Sabi sabi
 *This image is copyright of its original author  *This image is copyright of its original author
 (4 hours ago)Mabande Wrote: Had a question: where did the Kruger male currently with the S Avoca come from? Is he the same guy that was the Torchwood and Fourways pride male 2-3 years back? Was he chased away by the Mantimahle males? And the Imbali pride is currently controlled by the Mantinahles right? Yes he did control them prides along with his brother, after his brother disappeared he stayed with Torchwood Pride but the Mantimahle sons and 5th Mantimahle male ended up pushing North after being chased by both Southern Avocas after failing to reclaim old Mantimahle territory. 5th Mantimahle then disappeared and both sons eventually ended up taking over Torchwood Pride by that time, or atleast causing a split. While all this was happening, Kruger Male ended up being seen more on the Sabi Sands boundary with Manyeleti within the last year, he prolly sensed the Mantimahle sons and realised he was outnumbered, he also sired cubs in Torchwood Pride so wanted new females. He was seen mating with Imbali females and even had cubs but none of them survived. Skip forward a few months and then the 4 Kambula males come across the Imbali females and wanted to mate with them before focusing on Nkuhuma Pride. They chased Kruger Male who was once again outnumbered and he become a nomad. Just so happens that around the time he become a nomad, the remaining S.Avoca had come North for the first time in numerous years, since entering Sabi Sands as a young male even, and this is how they met. Imbali Pride just mate with whatever males they come across, myself and a few others believe Mantimahle males prolly chased the Kambula males in Manyeleti causing them to leave the Imbali females, but no interaction was ever seen. So are Mantimahles the pride males of Imbali Pride this very second, no, but is it looking like they will be in the future, yes.  (4 hours ago)Mabande Wrote: Had a question: where did the Kruger male currently with the S Avoca come from? Is he the same guy that was the Torchwood and Fourways pride male 2-3 years back?Yes (4 hours ago)Mabande Wrote: Was he chased away by the Mantimahle males?His brother died and then Mantimahles ousted ramaining Kruger male. (4 hours ago)Mabande Wrote: And the Imbali pride is currently controlled by the Mantinahles right?As far as I remember nor Imbali pride nor Imbali breakaway pride (which residents in southern Manyeleti) has currently pride male or dominant coalition. (4 hours ago)Dreadlocks Wrote: S Avoca and Kruger male at Sabi sabiIt would be awesome for them if they could link up with Talamati and Nkuchuma male. Separatelly they have rather poor odds to became dominant coalition. In coalition of 4 however that would be a whole different story. |
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