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(4 hours ago)KM600 Wrote: I’d imagine Ndzengas won the encounter, Kambula Pride weirdly enough was also on that Londolozi barrier, it’d make more sense for them to win having more to lose. I think Tsalala lioness brought the PCMs that far East, since losing her cubs she’s went back into Londolozi permanently.
Here might be your proof of that.... Is there more space out toward Nzenga territory for her to possibly mate with them instead? I feel like she'd be safter out there.
(4 hours ago)KM600 Wrote: I’d imagine Ndzengas won the encounter, Kambula Pride weirdly enough was also on that Londolozi barrier, it’d make more sense for them to win having more to lose. I think Tsalala lioness brought the PCMs that far East, since losing her cubs she’s went back into Londolozi permanently.
Here might be your proof of that.... Is there more space out toward Nzenga territory for her to possibly mate with them instead? I feel like she'd be safter out there.
She absolutely would not be safer in Ndzengha territory - Singita is still fenced in on the South and North so she'd be relatively safer (only problem is that Ximungwe occupies her old territory.) Many nomadic lions cross through Ndzengha territory in Londolozi and Mala Mala even if these nomadic lions aren't there permanently (Southern Avoca, Kruger Male, Kambula lions etc). Even NK Birmingham and Talamati young male have traversed through the area within the last couple of months. And with the Ndzenghas increasing their patrol coverage to the north, the area isn't safe for a lone lioness with two other major prides around the area.
It might not seem intuitive, but staying in the West is genuinely the lesser of all evils for her since she's alone.
(4 hours ago)KM600 Wrote: I’d imagine Ndzengas won the encounter, Kambula Pride weirdly enough was also on that Londolozi barrier, it’d make more sense for them to win having more to lose. I think Tsalala lioness brought the PCMs that far East, since losing her cubs she’s went back into Londolozi permanently.
Here might be your proof of that.... Is there more space out toward Nzenga territory for her to possibly mate with them instead? I feel like she'd be safter out there.
She absolutely would not be safer in Ndzengha territory - Singita is still fenced in on the South and North so she'd be relatively safer (only problem is that Ximungwe occupies her old territory.) Many nomadic lions cross through Ndzengha territory in Londolozi and Mala Mala even if these nomadic lions aren't there permanently (Southern Avoca, Kruger Male, Kambula lions etc). Even NK Birmingham and Talamati young male have traversed through the area within the last couple of months. And with the Ndzenghas increasing their patrol coverage to the north, the area isn't safe for a lone lioness with two other major prides around the area.
It might not seem intuitive, but staying in the West is genuinely the lesser of all evils for her since she's alone.
Yeah... damned if you do, damned if you don't I guess. The problem in the west is all the prides that are pretty hostile, but it seems her cubs were done in by rogue males running around. I still come back to the fact that the PCM's really just need to stay west and control the realm.
(4 hours ago)KM600 Wrote: I’d imagine Ndzengas won the encounter, Kambula Pride weirdly enough was also on that Londolozi barrier, it’d make more sense for them to win having more to lose. I think Tsalala lioness brought the PCMs that far East, since losing her cubs she’s went back into Londolozi permanently.
Here might be your proof of that.... Is there more space out toward Nzenga territory for her to possibly mate with them instead? I feel like she'd be safter out there.
She absolutely would not be safer in Ndzengha territory - Singita is still fenced in on the South and North so she'd be relatively safer (only problem is that Ximungwe occupies her old territory.) Many nomadic lions cross through Ndzengha territory in Londolozi and Mala Mala even if these nomadic lions aren't there permanently (Southern Avoca, Kruger Male, Kambula lions etc). Even NK Birmingham and Talamati young male have traversed through the area within the last couple of months. And with the Ndzenghas increasing their patrol coverage to the north, the area isn't safe for a lone lioness with two other major prides around the area.
It might not seem intuitive, but staying in the West is genuinely the lesser of all evils for her since she's alone.
Yeah... damned if you do, damned if you don't I guess. The problem in the west is all the prides that are pretty hostile, but it seems her cubs were done in by rogue males running around. I still come back to the fact that the PCM's really just need to stay west and control the realm.
thank you for the reply.
Well to be fair I think it's only the Ximungwe pride that's pretty hostile... as some commenters in these threads have noted, the current crop of Manghenis lack the aggression of their predecessors. it might explain why 3 lionesses lost one cub and had another one injured against the two Ximungwe lionesses. Othawas are still young so they're not as aggressive. It really is a tough situation for her but I still hope she pulls through
(3 hours ago)T_Ferguson Wrote: How long until we have a serious confrontation between Gijimas and Nkhulus? Was this one it? I feel like we have to have a serious spat here soon.
Gijimas are fierce males, until the Nkhulus really learn to mount a coordinated effort and catch one of them alone, I see these factions chasing each other and shifting territory lines back and forth for a while. The Gijimas have A LOT to lose with so many young cubs, so hopefully a serious spat takes place much further in the future
(4 hours ago)KM600 Wrote: I’d imagine Ndzengas won the encounter, Kambula Pride weirdly enough was also on that Londolozi barrier, it’d make more sense for them to win having more to lose. I think Tsalala lioness brought the PCMs that far East, since losing her cubs she’s went back into Londolozi permanently.
Here might be your proof of that.... Is there more space out toward Nzenga territory for her to possibly mate with them instead? I feel like she'd be safter out there.
She absolutely would not be safer in Ndzengha territory - Singita is still fenced in on the South and North so she'd be relatively safer (only problem is that Ximungwe occupies her old territory.) Many nomadic lions cross through Ndzengha territory in Londolozi and Mala Mala even if these nomadic lions aren't there permanently (Southern Avoca, Kruger Male, Kambula lions etc). Even NK Birmingham and Talamati young male have traversed through the area within the last couple of months. And with the Ndzenghas increasing their patrol coverage to the north, the area isn't safe for a lone lioness with two other major prides around the area.
It might not seem intuitive, but staying in the West is genuinely the lesser of all evils for her since she's alone.
Yeah... damned if you do, damned if you don't I guess. The problem in the west is all the prides that are pretty hostile, but it seems her cubs were done in by rogue males running around. I still come back to the fact that the PCM's really just need to stay west and control the realm.
thank you for the reply.
I think it was reported that the Ximungwes killed at least one of her cubs. And yes those two do seem to be particularly hostile towards other prides at the moment. But I'd rather she wasn't anywhere near the Kambulas/Ntsevus, who have attacked and killed their share of lionesses (including her mother) over the years. And the Nkuhumas sometimes venture into central Sabi Sands, and they recently killed that Imbali breakaway lioness. I feel she would have a much better chance if she did get into conflict with a pride of two than a bigger pride, who could much more easily catch her, mob her and kill her. From where her mother established her new territory in the west, the Tsalala pride's biggest conflict was with the Nkuhuma breakaways, and the two adult lionesses are now gone. Yes, there are the subs, but the male's time in the west has an ever approaching deadline. The Mhangenis are (or were) probably her biggest threat, but they seem to have fallen to the bottom of the hierarchy within the western prides. And she doesn't seem to come into contact with them anyway.
I'll also add that the Ndzengas are reaching the end of their prime - Mala Mala has them listed at 9 years old, with one of them approaching 10 - whereas the PC males are much more likely to stay territorial for the time that she needs to raise cubs. It's more a matter of whether they'll stick around or not. The age of the Ndzengas is also why I would prefer not to see the Kambula breakaway girl (K12) having Ndzenga cubs.
But you're absolutely right, the PC males need to improve their territorial patrolling of the west, and keep pride conflict to a minimum, if her next litter of cubs are to survive.
(3 hours ago)sunless Wrote: Sand River Pride: Sand River Lioness with 4 Cubs
wouldnt be so sure of that lol.
Wouldnt be the first nor the last time Oupa confuses lions
Just last week he confused Styx with Sand River.
The female that has 4 cubs likely sired by Nkuhlus (for a month or so now) is Plains Camp. And as we know both prides reside around similar areas, Skukuza / Lion Sands / Kirkman's
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2 hours ago( This post was last modified: 2 hours ago by Tr1x24 )
(3 hours ago)NLAL11 Wrote: Mala Mala has them listed at 9 years old, with one of them approaching 10
MM guess ages of lions who they dont know, which is the case with Ndhzengas.
Ndhzengas just turned 9 around these past months (at best 9.5) and both males are same age, possibly even littermates as they are sired by same male (amahle was just more developed early on as he has more testosterone).
We have photos of Amahle and Gore as small cubs in late 2016.
And photo of them all in late 2017 all looking same age, around 2 yrs old subs.
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(3 hours ago)NLAL11 Wrote: Mala Mala has them listed at 9 years old, with one of them approaching 10
MM guess ages of lions who they dont know, which is the case with Ndhzengas.
Ndhzengas just turned 9 around these past months (at best 9.5) and both males are same age, possibly even littermates as they are sired by same male (amahle was just more developed early on as he has more testosterone).
We have photos of Amahle and Gore as small cubs in late 2016.
And photo of them all in late 2017 all looking same age, around 2 yrs old subs.
They come from what pride? Is there and N'waswistshaka pride? I know thats a location in south Kruger but thats it
Also no info where Uboso comes from?
They are the first males to come to sabi sands and rule from their natal pride right?
After so many years of Sabi Sands being dominanted by Timbavati, Manyeleti and SS lions, its good to see males from south ruling such as Ndhzengas,Gijimas, PCM
Speaking of Gijimas, also a mistery where they come from right? I dont recall ever seeing males in Kruger with similar faces as them
1 hour ago( This post was last modified: 1 hour ago by sunless )
(3 hours ago)Ngonya Wrote:
(3 hours ago)sunless Wrote: Sand River Pride: Sand River Lioness with 4 Cubs
wouldnt be so sure of that lol.
Wouldnt be the first nor the last time Oupa confuses lions
Just last week he confused Styx with Sand River.
The female that has 4 cubs likely sired by Nkuhlus (for a month or so now) is Plains Camp. And as we know both prides reside around similar areas, Skukuza / Lion Sands / Kirkman's
So who and what pride this lioness and cubs come from so I can correct the title or remove and transfer it if this is the Plains Camp Pride as this thread is for Sabi Sands, Thank you.
If Nkhulu were to seriously launch an invasion, there's really no way for Gijimas ( or anyone else ) to stop them.
Hopefully the status quo will remain with at best some smaller border clashes.
Gijimas would need to decisively clase, split and catch ST or Smudge, killing one of them, to avoid an inevitable Nkhulu takeover in case Nkhulus were to try. Though of course, like I said, it isn't a given that Nkhulu will invade.
Kambula and Mantimahle for now it looks like Mantimahle easily have the upper hand and unless something drastic in the behavior of the 3 Kambulas in good condition changes, that won't change and it's a question of time until Mantimahles catch another one or finish off K4.
PCM and Ndhzengas, it looks like Ndhzengas have what it takes to keep repelling PCM from Londolozi, but as noted, PCM are younger, I believe Ndhzengas to be likely older than what MalaMala claims ( based in photo of subadult Ndhzenga and how they looked when they became territorial in 2020 ) and are perhaps around 10yo, but if in a few years Ndhzenga get ousted, it won't be a bad thing, cubs will be independent.
For now though, unless PCM catch a Ndhzenga alone I don't think they will beat Ndhzenga in Londolozi at these chasing matches.
