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Lions of Sabi Sands
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  A lot of the stuff we saw from the past week. Savannah are calling the Ximhungwe female and Othawa female just the Ximhungwe Pride now.  (09-08-2022, 02:26 PM)Tonpa Wrote:Yeah. I suspected this would be the name. They’re also calling Nhenha/NK the Birmingham Coalition. I know that triggers some folks. Lol. 
I can live with those names.
Gingerella was pretty much adopted by the Ximhungwe lioness. So she is pretty much fully Ximhungwe now. Personally I feel the mwalungu coalition fits the Birminghams better as Nhenha joined Sym and not the other way around. But since that name barely was used and both that and the Birmingham Boys are pretty much goneas a group. A new name is much more fitting. I think most of the complains are from people unwilling to accept that Gingerella isnt going to return to the Othawas and joined their mortal enemies instead. Or people not willing to accept that the BBoys are now extinct as a group. Rather than just move on and follow the actual animals involved.  (09-08-2022, 06:51 PM)Duco Ndona Wrote: I can live with those names. Yea, i also dont mind both names. Gingerella is an "outcast" of Othawas, breakaway, she would get another name just like other breakaways anyways if she had any sisters with her, but she joined older Ximhungwe, so until Ximhungwe female is alive, i think Ximhungwe name needs to stay, if Ximhungwe dies without her offspring to continue, then we can talk about end of Ximhungwe pride. As for Birmingham coalition, well Nkuhuma male is offspring of Bboys, so in a way, he is Birmingham, thru blood, so i dont mind that either, until Nhenha is alive.  (09-08-2022, 11:25 PM)Tr1x24 Wrote:(09-08-2022, 06:51 PM)Duco Ndona Wrote: I can live with those names. I don't think the names should change even if the Ximunghwe lioness or Nhena die, once they have been adopted the name should stay the same, even if there isn't a direct blood relation. Gingerella would be a Ximunghwe for all intents and purposes once she has been adopted by the Ximunghwe lioness, even if Ximunghwe lioness dies without a offspring in the pride.
A pride is first of all a social structure.
There are plenty of prides that genetically are the same family of lionesses. But have split up ages ago. If Ximhungwe were to die right now, its probably to soon. But if this continues for a few years, then I agree that even if there is no genetic link with the old pride anymore Gingerella should still count as a Ximhungwe. 
I am fine with both names, especially if Ximungwe and Gingerella pair up again once one or both of them have cubs. Same goes for Tsalala and Mangheni, what happens when one or both of them give birth. Me, personally, I'd like to see the Tsalala name continue, since she's the last of her pride, but the addition of the older Mangheni muddies the water a bit, just as with Ximungwe, I'm sure the Mangheni adopted the Tsalala Princess.
I also have no issues with Nhena and NYM being the Birmingham Males as long as Nhena is around, especially given NYM's direct relationship, as @Tr1x24 mentioned. I'm sure we all be revisiting the topic once he isn't. (09-09-2022, 05:40 AM)Uy BA0701 Wrote: I am fine with both names, especially if Ximungwe and Gingerella pair up again once one or both of them have cubs. Same goes for Tsalala and Mangheni, what happens when one or both of them give birth. Me, personally, I'd like to see the Tsalala name continue, since she's the last of her pride, but the addition of the older Mangheni muddies the water a bit, just as with Ximungwe, I'm sure the Mangheni adopted the Tsalala Princess. I totally expect that if Tsalala/Mhangeni pair remain together that The Tsalala Pride name is properly retained. Both were born into the same pride with the Mhangeni lioness taking about a 11 year vacation :)
So it looks like another dynamic shift happened, NK and Nhenha decided to leave western sector under pressure of PC males, so their short reign of ~2-3 months come to an end.
They prob decide that only 2 females (of which only 1 was available for mating) are not worth fighting for and risk their lives, as new, better opportunities might arise somewhere else. Also, as fairly new coalition, they prob saw that they dont stand much off a chance against PC males. This doesnt chance much in grand scheme of things in western sector, although they killed 2 old Othawas, PC males would also oust Tumbela by this time and outcome would be pretty much the same. In fact, this is best thing for Othawas, now they only have to worry about PC males in whole western sector and Singita, so they have much more breathing room.  (09-09-2022, 04:39 PM)Tr1x24 Wrote: They prob decide that only 2 females (of which only 1 was available for mating) are not worth fighting for and risk their lives, as new, better opportunities might arise somewhere else.I do not think lions think like that. It rather was simple thinking - we can not compete with PC males so we just surrender. If they could take on PC males then they would remain in western sector. Also price was the same for both sides so for PC males it was worth fighting and for Nkuchuma/Birmingham it wasn't? It doesn't make any sense. Regarding that naming pride by the oryginal name of just one of those (like naming Ximunghwe-Othawa breakaway) just Ximunghwe pride is dumb, missleading and dissrespectfull for the one of the duo. It would be different think if single individual joined to big pride, but in such duos (regardless if it is about unfamiliar famales or male coalitions). It is like calling Mongawane - Torchwood males, because it is obvious that since Torchwood male is older than it was Birmingham male who joined Torchwood male and not other way around (like one always have to join another, they couldn't just partner up), it would be very dump, but still it is an argument some use by saying it was Othawa female who joined to Ximunghwe pride (btw it isn't pride, it is lone lionesse, pride is a group of individuals) and so that group should be called Ximunghwe pride. The practice in such cases always was to give the group new name (of course particularly when 2 unrelated males were partnering up as it always was very rare to see 2 single lionesses partnering up for ) for example Thanda Impi males (insteed of naming them Skorro males or Nkuchuma males) or Orpen males. One single exeption would be naming Mhangeni-Tsalala duo just Tsalala pride as in fact both those fameles were born into Tsalala pride (same for example if Nkuchuma male - Birmingham son would join up with Avoca's sons from Nkuchuma pride, it would make sense to call them Nkuchuma males). I just can not get why some people feel need to rewrite origins of of direct individual. Othawa female is an Othawa female and will remain to be who she will hang out with. 
Throwback to the West Street male lions, the fathers of the Mapogo
One of the West Street males, Mak, on a waterhole at Londolozi in the early 2000´s ©Gil Lopez-Espina  *This image is copyright of its original author  *This image is copyright of its original author On the move  *This image is copyright of its original author  *This image is copyright of its original author
(09-09-2022, 06:04 PM)Potato Wrote: It rather was simple thinking - we can not compete with PC males so we just surrender. If they could take on PC males then they would remain in western sector. True, but there really isn't much anchoring them to the western sector either. If they already had a decent sized pride under them in the western sector, they would instinctively put up more of a fight. It's too soon to say they have left the western sector for good, I think it's just a single sighting and they will go back probably. (09-09-2022, 06:04 PM)Potato Wrote: I do not think lions think like that. It rather was simple thinking - we can not compete with PC males so we just surrender. If they could take on PC males then they would remain in western sector. Yea ofc, i just said like that. (09-09-2022, 06:04 PM)Potato Wrote: Also price was the same for both sides so for PC males it was worth fighting and for Nkuchuma/Birmingham it wasn't? It doesn't make any sense. Well yes and no, i dont think that PC males know exactly that they have only 2 females under them, as they know that there is also Othawa pride there, which they encountered and interacted with few times already when Tumbela was dominant, they also prob dont know that 2 Othawa females where recently killed by them. So they know that there are few lionesses there, who are potential new mates. Also, with the eastern side pretty much "unaccessible" because of 4 Ndhzengas, they dont have that many choices to expand.
Ultimately Gingerella just isnt a Othawa anymore. She was adopted by Ximhungwe. I dont think we need to complicate matters by creating new names.
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