There is a world somewhere between reality and fiction. Although ignored by many, it is very real and so are those living in it. This forum is about the natural world. Here, wild animals will be heard and respected. The forum offers a glimpse into an unknown world as well as a room with a view on the present and the future. Anyone able to speak on behalf of those living in the emerald forest and the deep blue sea is invited to join.
05-07-2022, 09:15 PM( This post was last modified: 05-07-2022, 09:16 PM by Slayerd )
(05-06-2022, 10:19 PM)Tr1x24 Wrote:
(05-06-2022, 10:02 PM)Slayerd Wrote: No the post was written very oddly. Nhenha is said to have come out on top, giving the Tumbela Male a limp and broken canine with a torn lip in the brief altercation. Nhenha on the other hand, came off with no injuries whatsoever.
"The Birmingham male having had quite an argument with the big Tumbela is still around investigating the area along with the Nkuhuma male, despite his recent defeat."
Its quite clear what he said, that Birmingham male, had big argument with Tumbela male but is still investigating area with Nkuhuma male despite his recent defeat.
Nhenha has quite few new scars on his face, broken canine and limp doesn't mean that Skorro Jr was defeated, winners also get injured.
Yes but coming worse off a fight isn't exactly a victory. We also don't know how this fight played out. Skorro Jr might have attacked Nhenha and Nhenha defended himself injuring the Tumbela Male but deciding to retreat or be submissive instead of drawing it out. Still Nhenha came out of the altercation in better condition and based off the recent things said by Omegagodi, he saw the situation as bad because Nhenha was bigger. Either way, things don't look good for the Othawa pride and Skorro Jr. The Birmingham and Nkuhuma Males might accept the other cubs if they can mate with one like the Matimbas with Sassy and the Mbiri with the other Skorro lionesses. Now would be a good time to accept Gingerella though I doubt they would.
A Birmingham male takeover would likely be the end of the pride. Its as simple as that.
They will kill the cubs, forcing the pride to start from zero again.
However, with one ailing and aging lion and one young inexperienced one. They will stand no chance once the PCmales decide to invade again. Resetting again the clock costing time which the pride with two aging lionesses just doesn't have. The pride would soon be reduced to just one lioness. Which even if she survives will quickly lose its grip to the territory. Most likely to the Ximhungwes.
Gingerella wont return, she is simply no longer a Othawa lioness anymore.
The best case scenario is that the PC males eliminate Nym and Nhenha for the Tumbellas. But get wounded enough in the process to forget about the west for a few years.
May not be nice to hear for the Birmingham fans, but ultimately they are the only expendable lions right now.
(05-07-2022, 10:30 PM)Duco Ndona Wrote: A Birmingham male takeover would likely be the end of the pride. Its as simple as that.
They will kill the cubs, forcing the pride to start from zero again.
However, with one ailing and aging lion and one young inexperienced one. They will stand no chance once the PCmales decide to invade again. Resetting again the clock costing time which the pride with two aging lionesses just doesn't have. The pride would soon be reduced to just one lioness. Which even if she survives will quickly lose its grip to the territory. Most likely to the Ximhungwes.
Gingerella wont return, she is simply no longer a Othawa lioness anymore.
The best case scenario is that the PC males eliminate Nym and Nhenha for the Tumbellas. But get wounded enough in the process to forget about the west for a few years.
May not be nice to hear for the Birmingham fans, but ultimately they are the only expendable lions right now.
I think takeover by any males in which they kill this cubs has that same scenario, that Sassy would need to raise those next cubs to adulthood alone after some time.
If takeover happens now, next cubs will be prob born around late 2022, they will reach adulthood/independence in late 2024- early 2025, at that time, 2 old Othawas would be around 17 yrs old, they might live that long, but not likely they will.
These Tumbela cubs are around 1 yrs old, they need atleast 1 more year, lets hope Tumbelas and Othawas can save some of the cubs if takeover happens, maybe Sassy running away with cubs or something like that (she did similar thing with her past offspring, she hang with them and last mated and accepted Tumbelas, after she saw that her offspring can survive on their own).
(05-07-2022, 10:30 PM)Duco Ndona Wrote: A Birmingham male takeover would likely be the end of the pride. Its as simple as that.
They will kill the cubs, forcing the pride to start from zero again.
However, with one ailing and aging lion and one young inexperienced one. They will stand no chance once the PCmales decide to invade again. Resetting again the clock costing time which the pride with two aging lionesses just doesn't have. The pride would soon be reduced to just one lioness. Which even if she survives will quickly lose its grip to the territory. Most likely to the Ximhungwes.
Gingerella wont return, she is simply no longer a Othawa lioness anymore.
The best case scenario is that the PC males eliminate Nym and Nhenha for the Tumbellas. But get wounded enough in the process to forget about the west for a few years.
May not be nice to hear for the Birmingham fans, but ultimately they are the only expendable lions right now.
Nature figures itself out. If it leads to the Nkuhuma and Birmingham Males winning, then that's that. Your view on how it should be, doesn't matter. Your recent comments are unnecessary and foolish. The Nwaswitshaka didn't fail, Nhenha survived and found a new partner and if he wins, he is deserving of that victory. If the Tumbela Male cannot defend his territory, then that's the fate of himself and his cubs. For all you know, Nhenha and the Nkuhuma Male will bring more stability for at least 2 more years, you don't know the future, it's dumb to act like you know what's best for these animals.
Quote:Sassy would need to raise those next cubs to adulthood alone after some time.
She is will be forced to feed and protect 5 cubs alone. And hiding from surrounding lionesses and males... Highly improbable.
Her last cubs were around 2, these are 1 year old, they can't even hunt yet.
If that situation would arise due to a takeover, it is likely it won't be 5 cubs to feed, but fewer. Some might perish due to circumstances not related to coalition dynamics as well. And if it would 5 and hard to feeed them all, malnourishment due to sibling competition might whittle down the number, effectively giving the remaining cubs a better chance. Anyway, there is at least something going for Othawas - there are not multiple males in the litter, which would make the food requirements much harder to be met.
(05-07-2022, 10:30 PM)Duco Ndona Wrote: A Birmingham male takeover would likely be the end of the pride. Its as simple as that.
They will kill the cubs, forcing the pride to start from zero again.
However, with one ailing and aging lion and one young inexperienced one. They will stand no chance once the PCmales decide to invade again. Resetting again the clock costing time which the pride with two aging lionesses just doesn't have. The pride would soon be reduced to just one lioness. Which even if she survives will quickly lose its grip to the territory. Most likely to the Ximhungwes.
Gingerella wont return, she is simply no longer a Othawa lioness anymore.
The best case scenario is that the PC males eliminate Nym and Nhenha for the Tumbellas. But get wounded enough in the process to forget about the west for a few years.
May not be nice to hear for the Birmingham fans, but ultimately they are the only expendable lions right now.
Nature figures itself out. If it leads to the Nkuhuma and Birmingham Males winning, then that's that. Your view on how it should be, doesn't matter. Your recent comments are unnecessary and foolish. The Nwaswitshaka didn't fail, Nhenha survived and found a new partner and if he wins, he is deserving of that victory. If the Tumbela Male cannot defend his territory, then that's the fate of himself and his cubs. For all you know, Nhenha and the Nkuhuma Male will bring more stability for at least 2 more years, you don't know the future, it's dumb to act like you know what's best for these animals.
I agree. Realistically, only genetic diversity and weeding out of trait negatively affecting fitness/health, is something that is good or bad for them as a whole and that is not taking account state of the population regarding habitat limits where it is arguable what might be better for the population longterm (which will indupitably by influnced by human actions anyway, especially in bordering parts of Kruger ecosystem).
Naturally, we get attached to stories of respective individuals and want them all do well or even can't help ourselves to have favourites and rooting for some more than others. Success of a specific individual might be against interest of the population as well (which is also why vet involvement like in Kenya is bad practice as it artificially prolongues success of certain individuals at the expense of others for selfish reasons).
Sure, nobody can predict the future. Limper can suddenly get better, decide he has enough of playing second fiddle, kill every male lion in Sabi Sand though clever tactics and rule supreme for 10 years. It is possible, but very unlikely to happen.
Its not rocket science to see that the current litter with the Tumbellas is the Othawas best bet right now.
(05-07-2022, 11:05 PM)Bellateda Wrote: She is will be forced to feed and protect 5 cubs alone. And hiding from surrounding lionesses and males... Highly improbable.
Her last cubs were around 2, these are 1 year old, they can't even hunt yet.
Tsalala females showed us that saving and raising multiple young cubs by 1 female in case of takeover can be done.
Mhangeni females where just over 1 - 1.5 yrs of age when Majingilanes takeover and BB Tsalala female took them and raise them to adulthood.
Tsalala young males and Pretty Girl where also quite young when Majingilanes abandon them and 2nd Short Tailed female raise them to adulthood.
Its a tough task, but can be done with bit of luck.
(05-07-2022, 11:05 PM)Bellateda Wrote: She is will be forced to feed and protect 5 cubs alone. And hiding from surrounding lionesses and males... Highly improbable.
Her last cubs were around 2, these are 1 year old, they can't even hunt yet.
Tsalala females showed us that saving and raising multiple young cubs by 1 female in case of takeover can be done.
Mhangeni females where just over 1 - 1.5 yrs of age when Majingilanes takeover and BB Tsalala female took them and raise them to adulthood.
Tsalala young males and Pretty Girl where also quite young when Majingilanes abandon them and 2nd Short Tailed female raise them to adulthood.
Its a tough task, but can be done with bit of luck.
Absolutely agree. I have also seen videos of lionesses outside sabi sands do the same although is not an easy task.
It seems like there are too many lions that have reached maturity and turning nomadic from the Kambuka, Nkuhama and Talamati prides. Add to them there are lions from Kruger also moving in SS. This is obviously going to result in more clashes and the weak ones / cubs will be bearing the most brunt of it.
