Lions of Sabi Sands

[Dangeroscos]

(03-24-2025, 07:42 AM)FACR2212 Wrote:

(03-24-2025, 06:57 AM)Dangeroscos Wrote:

(03-24-2025, 05:25 AM)FACR2212 Wrote: I think you should forget about the Ndzhengas becoming territorial over Nkuhuma pride. They are 10 years old this year and they will have another year between 2025-26 with at least 5 Kambula females in the process of coming into estrus, getting pregnant and giving birth to new litters. They will need 2 more years to help raising those cubs, what will make them near 13 years old. One of the Ndzhenga males can perfectly die in the process and their territory will be more a focus of attention rather than a secured territory.

For the moment, I think that Kruger male will try to stay with Nkuhumas. Being still a very confident and experienced male, his presence could be dissuasive to other coalitions of two males. 

By the way, any news about Avoca/SBD males in Sabi Sands? Have they been seen again?

I c. Really interesting if he really manages to hold the pride down. Do u think he will manage to raise offspring to independence with them? What makes him confident in ur eyes? Has he been king before? And how old exactly is he?

Thanks in advance for reply

Hello! Kruger male was dominant over Torchwood pride a few years ago (a large pride further east of Sabi Sands), along with another male of unknown origin (thats why they gained the generic name of "kruger males"), siring many cubs. His partner dissapeared or was killed (I dont remember exactly) around the time of the takeover by 2 Mantimahle sons, dark mane and ginger mane Mantimahles, who have been seen with Nkuhuma females too. 

After that, Kruger male roamed Sabi Sands paired with southern avoca male, another old nomadic male who lost his partner. Southern avoca male has not be seen the last months and Kruger male appeared alone with Nkuhuma pride in the last week.

P. S. You can go back to page 1178 to read more about Kruger male and Torchwood pride.

Thanks a lot for the info. Really appreciate it. But yh, it makes sense, that he has the experience of a king. Really sad, the southern avoca isn’t with him. Reply

[FACR2212]

(03-13-2023, 11:35 AM)Ahmed Ali Wrote:

*This image is copyright of its original author

*This image is copyright of its original author

*This image is copyright of its original author

*This image is copyright of its original author

Hello every one i really love to show you some from many picturs i have for lions ( these picturs belong to Famous Eastren Bank pride in 2015 at Lion sands Game Reserve ) as you can see the boyes was there if you don't know now we have Male and Female alive from this pride ( Every one know what happend to them sadly this pride is No more ) anyway the male is the Eastren bank male ( Asfaal male now coalition with the Southren Shishangeni male rule Jock area in Kruger ) .

The last female ( Sister of that male sired By Toulons ) was Joined the 2 Original Plains Camp pride females who sired By older Othawa/Robson males One eye and Stompie and she lucky that the 2 adults plains Camp accept her now she is the older plains Camp female with the 2 young females sired By Famous Mantimahle coalition ( 2017 ) and they already have cubs sired By Southren Avocas .

Photos Created By :- uknown yet i will give the Creater name later as much as Possible .

Hello my friend, thank you for sharing so valuable photos, they are very inspiring.

I was researching the history of Sand River pride and Plains Camp Pride. I also read about Eastern Bank pride, some say eastern bank and sand river prides are the same pride, but you say the eastern bank last female joined two plains camp females. It makes sense.

What happened to eastern bank pride that came to extinction? Reply

[Tr1x24]

(03-30-2025, 11:04 PM)Ttimemarti Wrote: So I have a question so this black dam male that left his brother behind I believe he’s the oldest of the 6 and is it possible that he went back to thornybush to look for his other brothers for help maybe since he has returned to sabi sands with another male I believe they’ve been here for a few weeks now right?

No, 2 Southern BDMs are younger, prob reason why the split. Reply

[sunless]

(Yesterday, 06:47 PM)Tr1x24 Wrote:

(03-30-2025, 11:04 PM)Ttimemarti Wrote: So I have a question so this black dam male that left his brother behind I believe he’s the oldest of the 6 and is it possible that he went back to thornybush to look for his other brothers for help maybe since he has returned to sabi sands with another male I believe they’ve been here for a few weeks now right?

No, 2 Southern BDMs are younger, prob reason why the split.

Do you know who is older the 2 Southern Black Dam or the 1 Northern BDM that usually goes solo and stay with the pride? Reply

[Tr1x24]

(Yesterday, 07:11 PM)sunless Wrote:

(Yesterday, 06:47 PM)Tr1x24 Wrote:

(03-30-2025, 11:04 PM)Ttimemarti Wrote: So I have a question so this black dam male that left his brother behind I believe he’s the oldest of the 6 and is it possible that he went back to thornybush to look for his other brothers for help maybe since he has returned to sabi sands with another male I believe they’ve been here for a few weeks now right?

No, 2 Southern BDMs are younger, prob reason why the split.

Do you know who is older the 2 Southern Black Dam or the 1 Northern BDM that usually goes solo and stay with the pride?

I dont know how old that 4th is, maybe this photo from August 2019 can help:

Credits: Rudi Hulshof

*This image is copyright of its original author

2 smallest males in front left are SBDMs, which one is 4th idk. Reply

[Tr1x24]

Gijimas chasing Nkhulus over the river at Kirkmans Kamp:

Not sure who was all involved from Nkhulus, but we can see LM Gijima chasing atleast 3 Nkhulus over the river, by the looks of it, at the beginning in the bushes is Nkhulu #5 (Crocked Tail) spliting left, and another male spliting right (has a turf so its not Snip Tail), prob male #3.

Nkhulu running from LM over the river looks to be Smudge.

LM is such a crazy and bloodthirsty lion, even when they are going back thru river he is still looking back like he wants more action.

Hope his brother can follow him, as we see here, DM was quite behind, otherwise LM Gijima might be in trouble one day. Reply

[KM600]

(Yesterday, 07:50 PM)Tr1x24 Wrote: Gijimas chasing Nkhulus over the river at Kirkmans Kamp:

Not sure who was all involved from Nkhulus, but we can see LM Gijima chasing atleast 3 Nkhulus over the river, by the looks of it, at the beginning in the bushes is Nkhulu #5 (Crocked Tail) spliting left, and another male spliting right (has a turf so its not Snip Tail), prob male #3.

Nkhulu running from LM over the river looks to be Smudge.

LM is such a crazy and bloodthirsty lion, even when they are going back thru river he is still looking back like he wants more action.

Hope his brother can follow him, as we see here, DM was quite behind, otherwise LM Gijima might be in trouble one day.

Looks like Gijimas can finally relax for a bit now, Kambulas back north, Khanya and NK also left the area, leaving only the Styx male. 

Nkhulus gonna need more numbers to make something happen, Gijimas just simply have their number, and as u mentioned above, they can only do damage if they find both Gijimas seperated, as it doesn’t look like they have the power to break their spirit and separate them themselves. Reply

[BA0701]

(Yesterday, 07:50 PM)Tr1x24 Wrote: Gijimas chasing Nkhulus over the river at Kirkmans Kamp:

Not sure who was all involved from Nkhulus, but we can see LM Gijima chasing atleast 3 Nkhulus over the river, by the looks of it, at the beginning in the bushes is Nkhulu #5 (Crocked Tail) spliting left, and another male spliting right (has a turf so its not Snip Tail), prob male #3.

Nkhulu running from LM over the river looks to be Smudge.

LM is such a crazy and bloodthirsty lion, even when they are going back thru river he is still looking back like he wants more action.

Hope his brother can follow him, as we see here, DM was quite behind, otherwise LM Gijima might be in trouble one day.

It was LM Gijima that turned back, while being chased, and pinned ST, he certainly doesn't lack for confidence, as they were being chased by three Nkhulus that time. Reply

[Mapokser]

Gijima in Kruger, I was told that was after chasing Nkuhlu but I can't confirm it:

*This image is copyright of its original author

Regardless it seems Nkuhlu, even in their own territory, are no match for the Gijima as 2 or 3 males. They need a third ( edit: fourth brother ) brother to evenly compete with the Gijima.

I've said this before but this is the greatest rivarly I've ever seen by the sheer amount of clashes they had, they might have had over 10 encounters by now.

And while yeah, only 2 Nkuhlu are healthy, it's still very surprising how the Gijimas have been dominating most of these clashes. Nkuhlu were still 7, then 6, and now 5, with 2 prime healthy males and others who still have contributed in clashes despite not being at 100%. Reply

[BA0701]

(Yesterday, 10:14 PM)Mapokser Wrote: Gijima in Kruger, I was told that was after chasing Nkuhlu but I can't confirm it:

*This image is copyright of its original author

Regardless it seems Nkuhlu, even in their own territory, are no match for the Gijima as 2 or 3 males. They need a third brother to evenly compete with the Gijima.

I've said this before but this is the greatest rivarly I've ever seen by the sheer amount of clashes they had, they might have had over 10 encounters by now.

And while yeah, only 2 Nkuhlu are healthy, it's still very surprising how the Gijimas have been dominating most of these clashes. Nkuhlu were still 7, then 6, and now 5, with 2 prime healthy males and others who still have contributed in clashes despite not being at 100%.

While I still believe the high water mark for duos is the Ross Males, they will, likely, be the standard by which all others are judged, for their sheer success, for a long time to come. But the current crop of duos in Sabi Sands may well be the greatest we have seen, as far as battle born, battle proven, their ability to take on and fend off all challengers, coupled with their successes as pride males. Also, the fact that there are three sets, currently, and they all border one another's territories. I am not sure we have seen so many duos, simultaneously, that were all so dominant.

However, as I was thinking about these three groups, the other day, it got me thinking about Sabi Sands, and all of the legendary duos who have come from there. The Molwathis, the last two real Birminghams, two sets of Avocas, one at each end, the Thanda Impis, just to name a few, the list goes on. Reply

[Ngonya]

(Yesterday, 07:50 PM)Tr1x24 Wrote: Not sure who was all involved from Nkhulus, but we can see LM Gijima chasing atleast 3 Nkhulus over the river, by the looks of it, at the beginning in the bushes is Nkhulu #5 (Crocked Tail) spliting left, and another male spliting right (has a turf so its not Snip Tail), prob male #3.

In this video only Smudge #1 and Crooked Tail #5 are seen aside from the Gijimas
In other, we see the 3 males that are said to be involved.
Dreadlocks #3 and Pale #6 were pictured by the same tourist yesterday at Kirkman's but were apparently not involved in this conflict as the lady says 3 males. Idk if it would be much different with all 5 Nkuhlus but it surely would be more intimidating, although i dont doubt Gijimas could chase them even 2v5.
The 3 Nkuhlus chased by Gijimas

*This image is copyright of its original author

(Yesterday, 07:50 PM)Tr1x24 Wrote: LM is such a crazy and bloodthirsty lion, even when they are going back thru river he is still looking back like he wants more action.

He always seems way more aggressive than his dark maned brother honestly. Always taking the lead and going for it in those standoffs. As BA mentions, when they were being chased by 4 Nkuhlus last year they only managed to chase back bc LM turned around and decided to fight back, depending of his brother they would've likely fled in that situation.

(Yesterday, 08:59 PM)KM600 Wrote: Nkhulus gonna need more numbers to make something happen, Gijimas just simply have their number, and as u mentioned above, they can only do damage if they find both Gijimas seperated, as it doesn’t look like they have the power to break their spirit and separate them themselves.

(Yesterday, 10:14 PM)Mapokser Wrote: Regardless it seems Nkuhlu, even in their own territory, are no match for the Gijima as 2 or 3 males. They need a third brother to evenly compete with the Gijima.

Hopefully both coalitions will just give a break for each other. So far none of the Sand River pride litters sired by Nkuhlu has made it, but finally they got some new cubs so hopefully this time is different and they should focus on defending their territory and siring more cubs. 
Also i wonder who are the invaders? its more than clear that both coalitions rule tresspassing areas and Kirkman's Kamp is territory for both. Reply

[Tr1x24]

(Yesterday, 11:31 PM)Ngonya Wrote: In this video only Smudge #1 and Crooked Tail #5 are seen aside from the Gijimas
In other, we see the 3 males that are said to be involved.

Watch closely at the beginning of the video in the grass close to camera, you will see 2 movements and 2 male lions there, 1 moving left (Crooked Tail) and 1 moving right thru grass.

Its hard to see but kinda looks like that 2nd male who moves right has turf on his tail, but maybe it was Snip Tail afterall. Reply

[Potato]

(Yesterday, 11:31 PM)Ngonya Wrote: although i dont doubt Gijimas could chase them even 2v5.

Nah, 5vs2 Gijimas should be heavly outmatched. I would argue 4vs2 as well would be too much to pull through for Gijimas. Once they did, but would argue it was just sort of "lucky punch" With smaller Gijima in no time beating Snip Tail. It worked that time, but what are odds of succesfully doing it again. I would say they are rather poor. Reply

[Tr1x24]

(Yesterday, 11:44 PM)Potato Wrote:

(Yesterday, 11:31 PM)Ngonya Wrote: although i dont doubt Gijimas could chase them even 2v5.

Nah, 5vs2 Gijimas should be heavly outmatched. I would argue 4vs2 as well would be too much to pull through for Gijimas. Once they did, but would argue it was just sort of "lucky punch" With smaller Gijima in no time beating Snip Tail. It worked that time, but what are odds of succesfully doing it again. I would say they are rather poor.

Well theres a reason why other 2 Nkhulus rarely or never join in these clashes, and thats because other 2 males dont have confidence to do it, as they are unhealthiest of them.

Male #3 sometimes join, and then was 4 vs2, but Nkhulus didnt gain any advantage even then, as male #3 also doesnt have confidence to be that x factor. 
After the clash, he was getting attacked and bullied by his own brothers, if his brothers feel weakness in him, thats not good sign.

Male #6 never joined them in a clash so far, and prob will not.

So basically its Smudge, SnipTail and Crooked Tail vs 2 Gijimas. Reply

[Ngonya]

(Yesterday, 11:42 PM)Tr1x24 Wrote: Watch closely at the beginning of the video in the grass close to camera, you will see 2 movements and 2 male lions there, 1 moving left (Crooked Tail) and 1 moving right thru grass.

Its hard to see but kinda looks like that 2nd male who moves right has turf on his tail, but maybe it was Snip Tail afterall.

As you say theres two males in the grass close to the camera
being Crooked Tail at the left and one at the right who is Snip Tail/#2

*This image is copyright of its original author

Its within two/three seconds that they vanish but if u manage to zoom on the right you can see the tail turf missing in the right male, while the other has it, and its Crooked Tail/#5 coming out of the same grass

*This image is copyright of its original author

(Yesterday, 11:44 PM)Potato Wrote: Nah, 5vs2 Gijimas should be heavly outmatched.

I agree with you, last time it was 5v2 in late 2023 Nkuhlu gave chase, but those animals are unpredictable and so far i wouldnt doubt Gijimas chasing them since Nkuhlu have such lack of confidence and health, but regardless it is indeed heavy numerical advantage and that would normally be enough. 

(Yesterday, 11:44 PM)Potato Wrote: I would argue 4vs2 as well would be too much to pull through for Gijimas. Once they did, but would argue it was just sort of "lucky punch" With smaller Gijima in no time beating Snip Tail. It worked that time, but what are odds of succesfully doing it again. I would say they are rather poor.

At that persecution the Gijima invaded Nkuhlu territory, then Nkuhlu were chasing them both, the Gijima chased back and it ended with the Nkuhlu chasing back, so i guess we could say that 4v2 was more equally matched if not a win for the Nkuhlu, since their goal of driving off the invaders in that occasion was achieved. Reply