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I find it extremely unlikely the PCM will try to take over the north, just like they never did with Londolozi. They are just investigating the area having heard K4 in their border.
Their oldest cubs have just turned 2 recently and were a borderline abandoned pride anyway even when Ridge Nose was alive.
Their oldest cubs from their main pride are not even 1,5yo and the Ximhungwe cubs not even 1yo.
They recently mated with Tsalala who's shifting her territory west to be under them.
It's way too soon for them to shift territories and they are not 4 males like Ndhzengas to abandon 1yo cubs, though most males don't do that regardless, cubs at 2 yeah, 1 it's too young.
What will happen is that they'll take over the Othawa pride by the end of this year/beginning of the next, keeping them even more focused in the West.
(04-28-2024, 04:49 AM)Mapokser Wrote: I find it extremely unlikely the PCM will try to take over the north, just like they never did with Londolozi. They are just investigating the area having heard K4 in their border.
Their oldest cubs have just turned 2 recently and were a borderline abandoned pride anyway even when Ridge Nose was alive.
Their oldest cubs from their main pride are not even 1,5yo and the Ximhungwe cubs not even 1yo.
They recently mated with Tsalala who's shifting her territory west to be under them.
It's way too soon for them to shift territories and they are not 4 males like Ndhzengas to abandon 1yo cubs, though most males don't do that regardless, cubs at 2 yeah, 1 it's too young.
What will happen is that they'll take over the Othawa pride by the end of this year/beginning of the next, keeping them even more focused in the West.
I think that would be good. The Plain Camp male lions are in their prime. They are starting too look like very strong lions not that they weren't, but I have read once a male lion is about 8 years of age they are in their prime and for most lions those are their best years. Like the Ndhzengas male lions; they are strong. A male lion does start to look strong and their manes grow and black mane grows more. I think the male lions in the south with the 4 Talamatie daughters are a bit younger.
(04-28-2024, 04:49 AM)Mapokser Wrote: I find it extremely unlikely the PCM will try to take over the north, just like they never did with Londolozi. They are just investigating the area having heard K4 in their border.
Their oldest cubs have just turned 2 recently and were a borderline abandoned pride anyway even when Ridge Nose was alive.
Their oldest cubs from their main pride are not even 1,5yo and the Ximhungwe cubs not even 1yo.
They recently mated with Tsalala who's shifting her territory west to be under them.
It's way too soon for them to shift territories and they are not 4 males like Ndhzengas to abandon 1yo cubs, though most males don't do that regardless, cubs at 2 yeah, 1 it's too young.
What will happen is that they'll take over the Othawa pride by the end of this year/beginning of the next, keeping them even more focused in the West.
I think that would be good. The Plain Camp male lions are in their prime. They are starting too look like very strong lions not that they weren't, but I have read once a male lion is about 8 years of age they are in their prime and for most lions those are their best years. Like the Ndhzengas male lions; they are strong. A male lion does start to look strong and their manes grow and black mane grows more. I think the male lions in the south with the 4 Talamatie daughters are a bit younger.
I would like to see the Plain Camp male lions bond with the Othowa lionesses. Maybe around the West more time they could be around with Gingerella and her partner longer and hopefully more cubs. The Plain camp male lions are strong and young they could be around hopefully, more cubs and be with their prides. I would want to see them go to the North or central of Sabi Sands. The Ndhzenga male lions have many cubs what I would like to see them when they get older go to the West and the Palin Camp male lions with the Kambula lionesses, but nobody knows what will happen; if the Kambula male lions are still around they might go to the West if and if they are spending some time in the North. If the Kambula male lions go South the t that could also male the 2 male lions go north or the west and in Central Sabi sands and hopefully all of their cubs start going nomadic.
04-28-2024, 11:05 AM( This post was last modified: 04-28-2024, 03:45 PM by Tr1x24 )
(04-28-2024, 04:49 AM)Mapokser Wrote: I find it extremely unlikely the PCM will try to take over the north, just like they never did with Londolozi. They are just investigating the area having heard K4 in their border.
Their oldest cubs have just turned 2 recently and were a borderline abandoned pride anyway even when Ridge Nose was alive.
Their oldest cubs from their main pride are not even 1,5yo and the Ximhungwe cubs not even 1yo.
They recently mated with Tsalala who's shifting her territory west to be under them.
It's way too soon for them to shift territories and they are not 4 males like Ndhzengas to abandon 1yo cubs, though most males don't do that regardless, cubs at 2 yeah, 1 it's too young.
What will happen is that they'll take over the Othawa pride by the end of this year/beginning of the next, keeping them even more focused in the West.
Not that unlikely, as you said, Ndhzengas did the same thing, it doesnt matter coalition size or the age of their cubs, if the opportunity is there and north is basically free to take.
Territory shift also doesnt happen over night and that suden, it takes months for that and happens gradually, where males have tendecy to return back to their former territory in the process.
So even if they started now, it might take them half a year to a year to fully abandon WS.
Looks like they pushed deeper in the north and killed 1 of NK oldest female (not confirmed it was them, but very likely).
As they where seen deep in the north around Shirley Property yesterday:
Edit: They are now seen mating with NK female as we speak.
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(04-28-2024, 11:35 AM)Tr1x24 Wrote: Looks like there was a "party" in the north yesterday, where Chela got killed unfortunatley, a lot of male and female lion tracks around her body.
PCMs where seen deep in Arathusa, Ndhzengas in southern Chitwa, K4 was at Djuma.
Looks like NK females in estrus attracted both PCMs and Ndhzengas north, K4 roaring there might aswell.
From the "safe" area we taught it was few days ago, become quite hostile area.
K4 is now alone there and both PCMs and Ndhzengas stand in between him and his brothers.
This situation does leave me extremely concerned for both K4 and Khanya. K4 is obviously a walking target now it seems both PCMs and Ndzengas heard him vocalising. Fortunately for him, he hasn’t been with Chela as she obviously hadn’t started mating as far as we know.
Khanya on the other hand has been with the bulk of the Nkuhuma Pride, Tendai mentioned that he was seen with 6 Nkuhuma Pride members a day or so ago. Of these 6 members it’s very likely Chela was one of them. K4 can always go reunite with his brothers but Khanya is in a much more difficult situation. Hopefully he’s fine too.
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04-28-2024, 03:48 PM( This post was last modified: 04-28-2024, 04:01 PM by Tr1x24 )
I wonder if PCMs pressured K4 and Kambulas first time around aswell when they where north, as I recall, there was a report that PCMs came and chased Kambulas there around that time.
So, all our discussions on why Kambulas dont take free north/NKs might be wrong, if PCMs where all that time involved there with pressuring them..
Their last clash, when K5 got hurt, happen in Londolozi, but lions dont go by map borders like we do, Kambulas might find that all that area of part of Londolozi, towards EP and north is under PCMs domain, so they dont want to commit there unlike K4.
Because of lack of reports, we might have been wrong all this time.
Amazing how quickly things can change in the wild. Not more than a few days ago, the Nkuhuma females were putting K4 through his paces and he had nothing but nice problems to deal with. Now that the PCMs have come into contact with the Nkuhumas, his situation has changed for the worse.
(04-28-2024, 11:35 AM)Tr1x24 Wrote: Looks like there was a "party" in the north yesterday, where Chela got killed unfortunatley, a lot of male and female lion tracks around her body.
PCMs where seen deep in Arathusa, Ndhzengas in southern Chitwa, K4 was at Djuma.
Looks like NK females in estrus attracted both PCMs and Ndhzengas north, K4 roaring there might aswell.
From the "safe" area we taught it was few days ago, become quite hostile area.
K4 is now alone there and both PCMs and Ndhzengas stand in between him and his brothers.
This situation does leave me extremely concerned for both K4 and Khanya. K4 is obviously a walking target now it seems both PCMs and Ndzengas heard him vocalising. Fortunately for him, he hasn’t been with Chela as she obviously hadn’t started mating as far as we know.
Khanya on the other hand has been with the bulk of the Nkuhuma Pride, Tendai mentioned that he was seen with 6 Nkuhuma Pride members a day or so ago. Of these 6 members it’s very likely Chela was one of them. K4 can always go reunite with his brothers but Khanya is in a much more difficult situation. Hopefully he’s fine too.
Cedric said on WildEarth that the Kambula male (K4) headed south during the night towards his brothers, so hopefully he got out of there. Might be a bit of a lesson for him hanging out without his brothers so much.
Let's hope Khanya has kept his head down and avoided the PC males. He's obviously got pretty good street smarts so I'm sure he has.
Uggh... The other wild card here is the Mantihmahle males. They've been hanging out too. I'd be very curious if the N'Was tripped into the PCM's. Also, what's to stop the PCM's to just keep on searching. They've eliminated almost all of the in estrus females to the closed off west. The only new ones would be the Othawa girls at some point in the next few months. I know it takes many months for males to just high tail it out of them, but these Plains Camp boys are sort of like Mr T. and Kinky Tail in that they've literally never been challenged so why wouldn't they think they were indestructible?!?!
PCMs are taking a very big risk leaving their territory unoccupied with 3 Kambula males within reach of Mhangeni Pride and with that new male in the West. Ofcourse they wouldn’t know the position of all these males but they need to get back to their prides asap.
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(04-28-2024, 04:50 PM)KM600 Wrote: PCMs are taking a very big risk leaving their territory unoccupied with 3 Kambula males within reach of Mhangeni Pride and with that new male in the West. Ofcourse they wouldn’t know the position of all these males but they need to get back to their prides asap.
There are no lionesses to mate with in any of their prides at this time. This is why they likely won't be going back and what's to bring a male all the way through to that spot? A lone male isn't likely going to be an issue for the Mangheni to deal with and nothing to this point has given any leads that the Kambula's are capable of that kind of ruthlessness.
04-28-2024, 06:24 PM( This post was last modified: 04-28-2024, 07:21 PM by T I N O )
(04-28-2024, 03:35 PM)KM600 Wrote:
Lion dynamics are truly amazing. It’s incredible how fast things turn out. Plains Camp males remind me a lot of the Mlowathi males. They’re a strong duo, their bond is one of the reasons of their success
