|
Lion Predation
|
 (01-10-2015, 08:50 PM)'chaos' Wrote:(01-01-2015, 07:03 AM)'Pantherinae' Wrote: Another male lion with an impressive buffalo bull kill. Doubt he made the kill, just dominated the carcass, Like males do. You can see quite a bit of the carcass already removed from the buffalo, so I am sure its been dead for sometime. 
Where are the rest of the lions waiting for their turn? Looks like he alone made the kill and has been the only lion leisurely consuming it. It appears that no other lions are in the area. Very unlike this, which seems to be more of what you are describing. Even the title of the video matches your point.
Maybe this guy finished the job. Maybe he didn't...
 *This image is copyright of its original author 
Got this sent from Nairobi National Park, where they said a single male lion had brought down a large adult buffalo bull by himself and where suffucateing it, later a female and another male arrived (funny to se The role's beeing turend around).
 *This image is copyright of its original author  *This image is copyright of its original author  *This image is copyright of its original author To me there is no doubt that a lone male lion can kill a buffalo bull, The reason You don't see it ti Often is because Lions are group hunters and prides and coallitions will work together on large dangerous prey like buffalo. But sometimes You can see a group of lionesses trying and when The male comes in he makes a BIG difference
This male does The job more or less alone, far from beeing The biggest buffalo though, but not a big mature male lion neiather.
A male lion can possibly kill an Adult bull buffalo, but this is old hat. To this day, there is still no proof of it occurring. Plenty of solo male lion attempts exist on buffalo and on bulls, but none successful.
The video above is a cow btw and not a large one at that, and there are 3 or 4 lions around it. But I doubt a lone lion would never be successful against a lone bull, it would just have to have some advantages in its favor. Older bull/younger bull, early throat hold or death grip or be a exceptional lion. Same goes for a Male tiger, they need some advantages in their favor to take down a Bull Gaur, but I have already seen many reports of it happening so I use that as proof. Tigers are better hunters and solitary and larger so they would probably be more successful than male lions but they fail as well. Just look at the story of Odin the older bull gaur that was able to fight a male tiger for a entire night but still survived the battle. Bull Gaur, Water Buffalo or Cape buffalo are all formidable animals, they are nothing to take lightly for any predator. I assume only the best of each predator can deal with them, solo.
@Pckts The video above is a small bull, You can easy spott The penis of the buffalo, but as I wrote a small buffalo. but The pictures above i posted is supposed to be a single male lion doing the kill of a adult large bull. I know a male lion would have to be on his best to kill a bull, but he could I'm sure, people say The have killed bull's alone if You watch people on safari there's a lot of guides who says they have seen lone male Lions killing buffalo bulls, aswell as john varty has seen it, even though he estimated a faritale weight on The buffalo, But I agree I have yet to see a real documented account of it happening or video, but I have seen male Lions do it so good when hunting bulls with a female or two, or another male that I'm sure he could do it alone, and The video You posted show that they will try, even that young male managed to bring the buffalo down for some seconds even though the failed, and that show's that it's absolutley possible for heavy'er and more experienced male to finish The job.
The reason I belive that we don't see it happening more Often is because that Lions are almost never alone when they are hunting, so that if a single male lion attacks a buffalo it takes alot of time for The battle ends, so it's almost certain that other Lions will be atttracted by The sound of the struggle before it's finished, and join in on The kill. Aswell as animals will always go for a injuried animal, or a cow. And don't forget that wild cattle help's an other member of The herd if it's attacked and cape buffalo roams in the biggest herd's of all wild bovines (except bison's, before The massive loss'es). even cape buffalo bulls will go in group's, so IMO it's probably The hardest cattle to take on! agility, speed, aggerssion and The biggest factor bigger numbers. (Not saying a cape is The most formidable animal by animal (that can be discussed), but The mentalaty and numbers of them makes them dangerous) Yeah I agree a tiger can and will kill adult gaur, what a sight that would be! I saw thru some pictures of gaur's from tadoba and they looked smaller compared to gaur's elsewhere in India someone who has weight's of gaur's from tadoba? Gaur's from kanha and bandipur where way more impressive looking atleast! I'm impressed that Raja and kanha male tigers are killing those beast's, that show's just how strong tigers are. (01-13-2015, 03:41 AM)'Pantherinae' Wrote: @Pckts The video about is a small bull, You can easy spott The penis of the buffalo, but as I wrote a small buffalo. but The pictures above i posted is supposed to be a single male lion doing the kill of a adult large bull. I know a male lion would have to be on his best to kill a bull, but he could I'm sure, people say The have killed bull's alone if You watch people on safari there's a lot of guides who says they have seen lone male Lions killing buffalo bulls, aswell as john varty has seen it, even though he estimated a faritale weight on The buffalo, But I agree I have yet to see a real documented account of it happening or video, but I have seen male Lions do it so good when hunting bulls with a female or two, or another male that I'm sure he could do it alone, and The video You posted show that they will try, even that young male managed to bring the buffalo down for some seconds even though the failed, and that show's that it's absolutley possible for heavy'er and more experienced male to finish it. That buffalo is a cow, Hence why it has no testicles. Also has multiple lions on it, attacking it, probably all contributed to chasing it and costing it energy, etc. Can you please show me a single incident of a tour guide or forest official saying that they saw a adult bull buffalo predation by a lone male lion. John varty claims the buffalo weighed 800kg which of course is much larger then a cape would weigh, like you said. Varty is not reliable when it comes to eye witness wild accounts. He spends his days in his sanctuary and is a highly controversial figure. That male that failed with the bull was a full grown adult and the bull wasn't exceptionally large by any measure but a larger lion could of possible been successful. But that is speculation, I am sure their are specialists out there that can do it. I just would like to see a successful attempt or at least a eye witness account before I agree.  (01-13-2015, 04:18 AM)'Pckts' Wrote:(01-13-2015, 03:41 AM)'Pantherinae' Wrote: @Pckts The video about is a small bull, You can easy spott The penis of the buffalo, but as I wrote a small buffalo. but The pictures above i posted is supposed to be a single male lion doing the kill of a adult large bull. I know a male lion would have to be on his best to kill a bull, but he could I'm sure, people say The have killed bull's alone if You watch people on safari there's a lot of guides who says they have seen lone male Lions killing buffalo bulls, aswell as john varty has seen it, even though he estimated a faritale weight on The buffalo, But I agree I have yet to see a real documented account of it happening or video, but I have seen male Lions do it so good when hunting bulls with a female or two, or another male that I'm sure he could do it alone, and The video You posted show that they will try, even that young male managed to bring the buffalo down for some seconds even though the failed, and that show's that it's absolutley possible for heavy'er and more experienced male to finish it. ~~Varty is not reliable when it comes to eye witness wild accounts. He spends his days in his sanctuary and is a highly controversial figure. I do believe you have referenced John Varty in the past when looking to support you opinion. Now you hedge on him when he don't. Interesting. According to Wikipedia, savannah cape buffalo range from 500 to 900kgs. See. The African buffalo or Cape buffalo (Syncerus caffer), is a large African bovine.[2] It is not closely related to the slightly larger wild Asian water buffalo, and its ancestry remains unclear. The African buffalo is not the ancestor of domestic cattle, and is only distantly related to other larger bovines. Owing to its unpredictable nature, which makes it highly dangerous to humans, the African buffalo has never been domesticated unlike its Asian counterpart, the water buffalo. Skull of an African buffalo The African buffalo is a very robust species. Its shoulder height can range from 1 to 1.7 m (3.3 to 5.6 ft) and its head-and-body length can range from 1.7 to 3.4 m (5.6 to 11.2 ft). Compared with other large bovids, it has a long but stocky body (the body length can exceed the wild water buffalo, which is rather heavier and taller) and short but thickset legs, resulting in a relatively short standing height. The tail can range from 70 to 110 cm (28 to 43 in) long. Savannah-type buffaloes weigh 500 to 900 kg (1,100 to 2,000 lb), with males normally larger than females, reaching the upper weight range.[3] In comparison, forest-type buffaloes, at 250 to 450 kg (600 to 1,000 lb), are only half that size.[4][5] Its head is carried low; its top is located below the backline. The front hooves of the buffalo are wider than the rear, which is associated with the need to support the weight of the front part of the body, which is heavier and more powerful than the back. Savannah-type buffaloes have black or dark brown coats with age. Old bulls have whitish circles around their eyes. Females tend to have more-reddish coats. Forest-type buffaloes are reddish brown in colour with horns that curve back and slightly up. Calves of both types have red coats.
It's a small bull pckts. Why The penis? That's The first thing he's biting of, those other Lions did not participate one bit though, they where not in hunting mode, and did not look like they where interested. Still that's not an impressive kill in terms of what size a buffalo can reach..
But that lion in The video You posted is no where near a fully grown mara lion that's compleatly sure, no way!! john varty spends his days on a sanctury? Well now maybe yes, but the guy is in Londolozi and has spent many years out in The African bush filming and watching wildlife, so yes The guy has seen a thing or two... And I saw him not long ago in a video filming The camp Pan male leopard. So I don't think he's lies about it. Even though he is controversial dosen't mean he's a lier. Many people just estimates The weight of an impressive kill, but it doesn't meanIt didn't happen. (01-13-2015, 05:43 AM)'chaos' Wrote:(01-13-2015, 04:18 AM)'Pckts' Wrote:(01-13-2015, 03:41 AM)'Pantherinae' Wrote: @Pckts The video about is a small bull, You can easy spott The penis of the buffalo, but as I wrote a small buffalo. but The pictures above i posted is supposed to be a single male lion doing the kill of a adult large bull. I know a male lion would have to be on his best to kill a bull, but he could I'm sure, people say The have killed bull's alone if You watch people on safari there's a lot of guides who says they have seen lone male Lions killing buffalo bulls, aswell as john varty has seen it, even though he estimated a faritale weight on The buffalo, But I agree I have yet to see a real documented account of it happening or video, but I have seen male Lions do it so good when hunting bulls with a female or two, or another male that I'm sure he could do it alone, and The video You posted show that they will try, even that young male managed to bring the buffalo down for some seconds even though the failed, and that show's that it's absolutley possible for heavy'er and more experienced male to finish it. Don't use wiki, use verified weights. Show me where I used Varty, must compare apples to apples. Nothing you posted denies the fact that cow has no testicles. Notice all buffalo are the same color  *This image is copyright of its original author and below you can see the younger buffalo with the redder coat but all the adults are almost identical in color  *This image is copyright of its original author Also, I believe water buffalo are larger than cape buffalo as well. And the weights I found for cape show that the maximum is around 725kg-800kg so unless varty saw the largest cape buffalo ever seen by man be taken down by a lone lion (the only man to witness this in history) than be realistic about it. http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topi...pe-buffalo and here is the mean size of cape buffalo taken by lions  *This image is copyright of its original author male and female (01-13-2015, 07:46 AM)'Pantherinae' Wrote: It's a small bull pckts. Why The penis? That's The first thing he's biting of, those other Lions did not participate one bit though, they where not in hunting mode, and did not look like they where interested. Still that's not an impressive kill in terms of what size a buffalo can reach.. Yet he doesn't possess a single shred of video of any of these alleged hunts. Infact, the only video he possess is of the animals he released into his enclosed area or of animals he has tied to a chain to keep from escaping. He allows wealthy individuals to dart his cats as a "hunting expierence" He lied to indian gov't about the gene pool of the tigers, he tried to release them in africa and was denied as well. He is backed by wealthy individuals for the sake of his own interests and offers no actual signifigance to conservation of any cat. His sanctuary is constantly used as a filming ground for "documentories" to increase his wealth only. Here is a hunters first hand account of Water buffalo vs Cape Buffalo and he has NEVER seen or hunted a wild Water Buffalo from asia that deals with Tigers and other predators "Water buffalo are considerably bigger; the largest African buffalo bulls rarely weigh more than 1,500 pounds, while a big water buffalo bull will weigh a ton" http://www.sportsafield.com/content/cape...er-buffalo
Im sorry, I misread. You said that Water buffalo are larger, my mistake.
Disregard that last part. (01-13-2015, 10:41 PM)'Pckts' Wrote:(01-13-2015, 05:43 AM)'chaos' Wrote:(01-13-2015, 04:18 AM)'Pckts' Wrote:(01-13-2015, 03:41 AM)'Pantherinae' Wrote: @Pckts The video about is a small bull, You can easy spott The penis of the buffalo, but as I wrote a small buffalo. but The pictures above i posted is supposed to be a single male lion doing the kill of a adult large bull. I know a male lion would have to be on his best to kill a bull, but he could I'm sure, people say The have killed bull's alone if You watch people on safari there's a lot of guides who says they have seen lone male Lions killing buffalo bulls, aswell as john varty has seen it, even though he estimated a faritale weight on The buffalo, But I agree I have yet to see a real documented account of it happening or video, but I have seen male Lions do it so good when hunting bulls with a female or two, or another male that I'm sure he could do it alone, and The video You posted show that they will try, even that young male managed to bring the buffalo down for some seconds even though the failed, and that show's that it's absolutley possible for heavy'er and more experienced male to finish it. Here ya go. Another source stating cape buffalo can weigh up to a ton. Now, if you want to continue, there are more. They all - for the most part - are consistent in weight assessment. I guess they're all wrong? ~~ Brent Huffman, http://www.ultimateungulate.com
Well he is a wierd man, who i kinda disrespect's a little myself, but he is a owner or founder of Landolozi game reserve, and has spent alot of time filming wildlife. And to be honest he is probably not as knowledgeble about The weight of buffalos he read's maximum weight's in books etc, and just says so, alot of people do that. Also there are several people who has said they have seen Lions kill a buffalo bull. I hear time and time again that people has seen it, when just watching videos on YouTube, next time i hear it I'm gonna post it.
|
| Users browsing this thread: |
| 148 Guest(s) |