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Kambula/Ntsevu males
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@Mapokser
Well, if thats the case, then Kambulas dont fear Mantimahles either, returing back few days after and openly roaring in their face. Regardless, I still think its more likely K4 was alone with NKs, other 3 where further south (as they where doing recently, K3 with K5, and then K6 with K5) and he got caught or tried to fight them with NKs. 
The Vurhami did that against Mjejane and ended up all dead. Kambulas returned the same night against Gijimas as well to save K6 and lost again, it could be the case here.
Still, I'm not saying Mantimahle confronted all 4 of them last time ( I think K4 was likely caught alone ), what I'm saying is that, instead of what you suggested, the Mantimahle could very well have showed up regardless if they were against the 1 or 4 of them roaring. The roar of 4 Kambulas together have only intimidated the 2 BDM so far, Mantimahle have chased all 4 of them at least twice recently. If the Kambulas were fully established, then yes, Mantimahle wouldn't show up, but as things stand right now, all the duos sees the Kambula for what they are, challenging young nomads, not fully ready. In fact, I believe that even if the healthy Kambulas were as territorial as K4, they would still possibly be weaker than current duos as I think people overestimate K4 way too much, he is more confident than his bothers but far from a formidable lion when compared to any of the territorial lions around. I believe they'd need to all be stronger than they are or at least 2 of them to be very tough, for them to have the upper hand in this situation. But it's like I say, they may "switch" to fully territorial mode at some point so who knows. (11-19-2024, 02:18 AM)Mapokser Wrote: In fact, I believe that even if the healthy Kambulas were as territorial as K4, they would still possibly be weaker than current duos as I think people overestimate K4 way too much, he is more confident than his bothers but far from a formidable lion when compared to any of the territorial lions around. Hard disagree. I think K4 is territorial ready as it gets, he is showing that since late 2023, what do you expect, that he alone beats others like PCMs or Mantimahles in 1vs2? Nonsense. This is now 3rd time he acted like pride male of NKs and 3rd time he got pushed away in 1vs2 because he had no support (assuming he was alone this time aswell, which he prob was). "far from formidable lion" ?? 
Honestly the fact that non of them have been killed is extremely impressive I don’t think I’ve seen a coalition of 4 get pushed around by so many duos I mean it did take the Ndzengas awhile to get confident. The southern avocas chased them Birminghams chased them but after awhile that didn’t happen anymore and they killed a few mhangeni cubs beat up blondie and sent nhenha to the west (basically) and pushed the gijimas out of their new territory
He displays the same behavior as his brothers, just to a smaller degree.
He follows his brothers in their nomadic adventures following buffalo, abandoning their "territory" in the north countless times even when not faced with any opposition. He tolerates everybody at the dinner table countless times. Yes dominant males sometimes share food with other males, but this is rare and generally when they don't have an overwhelmingly advantage. Kambulas as 4 tolerates everybody and their mothers at the dinner table; And the most obvious thing, he was only brave enough to confront Red Road when he thought his brother had him at his mercy, when he realized K5 was the lion losing he immediately fled. Even Mandevu who isn't thought as a particularly powerful male, is seminomadic right now, needed only a 3yo subadult with him to chase RR and his pride off, and back in the day basically as a solo male he'd invade, challenge and fight RR. K4 couldn't challenge RR with his prime littermate already fighting the guy. Maybe K4 is territorial ready, if you give him a free territory without any threats, he'd possibly stick to it, but he doesn't have what it takes to be a pride male if he is to be confronted by enemies. Another brother at his level wouldn't magically make him be able to stand to Mantimahle or PCM, just because Ndhzengas did it, doesn't mean two K4s could as well, not every territorial ready male is equal. BDM were territorial for a year, in their prime, 2 brothers, do you think they would hold off PCM and Mantimahle who are stronger than Kambulas, the lions that ousted the BDM? Just because BDM were territorial ready? That's my point... K4 is physically impressive, but his territorial confidence and drive not as much. Being territorial ready isn't enough, a lion not willing to dominate by luck needs to be territorial ready AND strong to be able to compete with the likes of PCM and Mantimahle. Edit: he also never helped any of his brothers who were caught despite being around with the other brothers and sister. Even in that famous vid of small 4yo Duba Boys (?) clashing with big prime Monomoholo & Kwandwe, the brother returns to help and attacks one of the enemies, before realizing he had no chance even 1v1. S. Matimba v 4ways the same thing, the young much smaller 4ways returns and attacks HB from behind, but even 1v1 he didn't stand a chance nor his partner did against Ginger. Same won't apply here, prime K4 could have easily saved his brothers from similar-sized Gijimas or even PCM because getting attention of at least 1 is enough, since 1v1 between good-sized prime males we know even RR in perfect position struggles to do much damage. So we have no reason to believe K4 would do much with another brother at his same page, or even all other 3. All of them must get more confident if they want to he successful, K4 is no exception.  (11-19-2024, 06:06 AM)Mapokser Wrote: He displays the same behavior as his brothers, just to a smaller degree.black damn male lions were young. I am not sure how old they were, but weren’t they younger than plain camp male lions and plain camp male lions are younger than Ndhzenga. Black damn male lions were 5 or 6? Kruger male lion when he was around Kambula he stranded and he ran once he saw two, but the young Kambula male lions did not look sure they ran once they saw him run.  Black Dam Males where really not a dominant males for the Nkuhumas as the guides in the North have stated that they rarely roars or not even roar as at that time many male lions is at the North.
For K4 recent altercation with who knows (Mantimahle Sons or the Kruger&Southern Avoca Male) he is alone as K3, K5, and K6 is already at the Londolozi Boundary on November 12, 2024.
K4 last sighting is on Novemeber 11 and from November 12 to November 14 is where he did not have a sighting and on November 15 he is sighted to have injuries.
For the Mantimahle Sons they have killed a buffalo in Nkorho and eating it on November 13 to November 16 and left, also November 16 is where the K3, K5, and K6 is seen roaring at Vessels Chitwa responding to Mantimahle Sons roar in Nkorho.
Seems like K12 their sister can also be the reason that they did bloom late as K12 would chase out the females that have come into contact with the 4 Kambulas, and the 4 Kambulas did not really have a chance to mate with other lioness when K12 is chasing the females out. As young male lions seems to have a boost of testosterone when they mate and their sister K12 is hindering their mating chances.
(11-19-2024, 06:06 AM)Mapokser Wrote: He follows his brothers in their nomadic adventures following buffalo, abandoning their "territory" in the north countless times even when not faced with any opposition. Except he stayed 2 times alone with NKs earlier this year, and both times got pushed away by 2 PCMs, obviously he rejoined his brothers, what he was supposed to do? This is now 3rd time we see same exact thing, but now he got caught by Mantimahles. (11-19-2024, 06:06 AM)Mapokser Wrote: He tolerates everybody at the dinner table countless times. Yes dominant males sometimes share food with other males, but this is rare and generally when they don't have an overwhelmingly advantage. Kambulas as 4 tolerates everybody and their mothers at the dinner table; Yes, he tolerated, because he was nomad, nomads tolerate other nomads, idk what is strange there. Even territorial males can tolerate nomadic lions at dinner table if food is 1st prio. Recently they and he didnt tolerate neither Torchwood boys and neither Kruger male. (11-19-2024, 06:06 AM)Mapokser Wrote: And the most obvious thing, he was only brave enough to confront Red Road when he thought his brother had him at his mercy, when he realized K5 was the lion losing he immediately fled. You know that from 2 min clip, we dont know how that clash started and how it unfold, we basically only saw the fight, which was a mess, and K4 was prob very confused what is happening. Regardless, Mandevu got bested by RRM, so what, does it means he is not territorial ready? (11-19-2024, 06:06 AM)Mapokser Wrote: Maybe K4 is territorial ready, if you give him a free territory without any threats, he'd possibly stick to it, but he doesn't have what it takes to be a pride male if he is to be confronted by enemies. What pride male needs to have when he is confronted by duo?? Thats a lose scenario regardless how powerful you are. I would understand your comments if K4 was pushed around from NKs by lone territorial male, but he was not, he was outnumbered. (11-19-2024, 06:06 AM)Mapokser Wrote: Another brother at his level wouldn't magically make him be able to stand to Mantimahle or PCM, just because Ndhzengas did it, doesn't mean two K4s could as well, not every territorial ready male is equal. Maybe, we dont know, they would definetly be much stronger. (11-19-2024, 06:06 AM)Mapokser Wrote: BDM were territorial for a year, in their prime, 2 brothers, do you think they would hold off PCM and Mantimahle who are stronger than Kambulas, the lions that ousted the BDM? Just because BDM were territorial ready? We dont know, BDMs problem was injury/health problems of smaller maned mane, his confidence was very low, thats prob a reason why Kambulas "scare" them off easily in a first place, and why his brother eventually dump him. People keep forgeting that 2 BDMs where invading and giving trouble to Ndhzengas before that, Ndhzengas who were still 3 at that time. (11-19-2024, 06:06 AM)Mapokser Wrote: That's my point... K4 is physically impressive, but his territorial confidence and drive not as much. Again, you are comparing 1 lion to a duos. Even the most strongest loner around, likes of RRM, or S8, or Mapoza, whatever, would get dumpstered by PCMs or Mantimahles. Also, we dont know how formidable are individuals of these duos alone, recently 1 PCM got chased by nomadic S.Avoca/Kruger male, DM Mantimahle by K4/K3, they dont look as formidable when they dont have their brother next to them. If they lose their partner/brother, we dont know how formidable they would be in that scenario, just take Mohawk, after losing Blondie, he was shell of himself and he lost territory to BDMs shortly after. (11-19-2024, 06:06 AM)Mapokser Wrote: Edit: he also never helped any of his brothers who were caught despite being around with the other brothers and sister. Even in that famous vid of small 4yo Duba Boys (?) clashing with big prime Monomoholo & Kwandwe, the brother returns to help and attacks one of the enemies, before realizing he had no chance even 1v1. You know he didnt try ? We have 0 info about those clashes and what happened. (11-19-2024, 06:06 AM)Mapokser Wrote: So we have no reason to believe K4 would do much with another brother at his same page, or even all other 3. All of them must get more confident if they want to he successful, K4 is no exception. Your opinion, imo K4 is confident enough, he just doesnt have support he needs. You cant act fully confident if you know you have no support, otherwise you will die, this incident confirms this, he should retreated to his brothers, but he was bold and confident to stay alone and act as pride male, and payed the price.
K4 Update: Hoping for his good and fast recovery and it seems he can put some weight on the injured leg but it seems like a puss that is flowing in his injured leg. As Cedric from WildEarth have always said we would be amazed on how injuries and wounds heal good for wildlife and hoping K4 injuries heal good and fast.
Video 1: Video 2:  *This image is copyright of its original author https://www.facebook.com/share/v/k2pw4woHHCmfxPo7/ (Cannot embed because of the privacy of the post.) K6 Mating with Nkuhuma Lioness: (11-19-2024, 07:44 PM)sunless Wrote: K4 Update: Hoping for his good and fast recovery and it seems he can put some weight on the injured leg but it seems like a puss that is flowing in his injured leg. As Cedric from WildEarth have always said we would be amazed on how injuries and wounds heal good for wildlife and hoping K4 injuries heal good and fast. Wound is red because he licks it constantly, lions tongue is quite sharpe, but their saliva is natural antiseptic. He is putting pressure, which is good, only concern is infection by this point. Idk if he eaten or no, but condition is still decent. Update for K4:
Infromation is said by Tayla from WildEarth, according to a guide named Trevor from Simbambili K4 has walked all the way to Chitwa to Arathusa and the other 3 Kambulas are not far from the boundary of Djuma called Baboon Pan and a buffalo herd is moving up and down in the North. Hoping that the 3 Kambulas unite with K4 and hunt a buffalo so that K4 can eat. Also with that information that he goes from Chitwa to Arathusa is good for him that he can walk/travel.
 (11-19-2024, 07:33 PM)Tr1x24 Wrote: We dont know, BDMs problem was injury/health problems of smaller maned mane, his confidence was very low, thats prob a reason why Kambulas "scare" them off easily in a first place, and why his brother eventually dump him.i think about this somtimes. People like to underestimate them but the truth is that, when they first came, the 2 were really bold male lions. But yeah something alont the way hold them back, could very well be smaller BDM health problems as u mention or whatever. also worth mentioning Kambulas took sometime to oust sick BDMs, they tried and stood their ground as long as they could.
I feel bad for all the S.S bboys sons. Either they've been very unfortunate or not confident enough to rule.
Only torchwood and the two older kambulas (with help) are actually rulers Oh how i miss the styx boy. He seemed destined to rule S.S but he was dealt a bad hand with an incompetent brother the nkuhuma male. Why didnt the torchwood come down south? Torchwood and styx would be complemented eachother. Anyone know how styx and nkuhuma met? And where/when about they met?
@sunless BDM were fully territorial 6yo prime males for almost a year.
Their semi-dominant behavior comes from after the clashes with Kambulas, who sort of ousted them. @Tr1x24 K4 tolerated all those males after he already had ousted the BDM, yeah no tolerance for the Torchwood and Kruger male though, but still. We also know everything that happened in the RR clash, guides saw it from the beginning. They were drinking ( this in Kambula's "territory", Northern SS ), Nhahrus and RR drinking at the same place, chance encounter. RR and the females chased the Kambulas and K5 was caught. K4 returns and the video happens. Then after that K6 returns and chases RR back to Manyeleti. Mandevu lost to RR but he unleashed the challenge on RR's territory, and even as a seminomadic male, he chased RR and his entire pride off, with the help of a subadult he barely has a bond with. K4 had the help of his prime littermate, was in his own "territory", but retreated immediately from RR, big difference. BDM were fully healthy, it was the nomadic life and clashes with Kambulas that left the smaller brother in this condition, he never had any limp or health issue before these fights. As I said, K4 might be territorial ready, many males are, but clearly not ready to compete with Mantimahle & PCM even if he had a brother totally backing him up, his territorial readiness is at the level of BDM at the best, simplynot enough. |
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